I'm fairly sure I've planted 2 year old grafted roses as late as early November. The ground doesn't freeze more than an inch or so down until late December, so that gives them about 2 months to grow roots.

Generally speaking in my opinion it is fine. Those two roses thou have had reports of being a little more tender. I think you might have the best luck planting them in spring especially Love Song. Pretty sure a few people lost Love Song to winter. My PAoK was own root and slow to get going. A larger grafted one may do fine.

Seems a little late to me for in the ground. Unheated garage kept or its equivalent, if that is an option, not removed from their present nursery pots, would be fine. Then planted outside carefully in spring will work. The trick at spring time is to put them outside on above freezing spring days, usually around mid-March, or when they start to break dormancy in the garage, brought in on freezing days or nights until the chance of frost damage is past, then plant them. This is a lot of hustle and bustle moving them about, but just two roses would only take a few seconds each time.

Don't put them into the garage until they are hardened off outside, about Halloween time, when temps go down to 25 F. Later or sooner accordingly.

Planted in the ground now come about early November, they would have to be protected for the winter. A very generous mound of bark mulch or oak leaves (maple leaves get soggy and rot canes), would be mandatory with something to hold the leaves or mulch in place.

I think you would have better success with the first option I suggested. I have done both many times and always regretted the times they went into the gound as late as this time of year. They came through the winter poorly even well protected. I am in zone 5/6 W. PA. Those that went into my fruit cellar (unheated garage equivalent), did very well. Just remember to keep the soil moist over winter kept like this. A check every coup!e weeks will do. Tempeatures below 25 F. In the garage can be damaging to the roses.

I was taught that temps below 17_F. kill canes of the typical hybrid tea. Of course winter hardiness varies greatly among rose classes and among varieties within classes.

The Syracuse Rose Society does a group order from Palatine in fall which is received in November! Members assure me that they have been doing this for years, that the roses can be planted anytime before the ground freezes, and that the roses are ready to grow and bloom come spring! Syracuse is a bit closer to Lake Ontario than I am, so the climate is a tad bit warmer. I decided to order two OGRs known to be cold hardy, Variegata di Bologna and Yolande de Aragon, and see how they might do. YdA ownroot from a southern nursery did not grow for me at all, so I thought I might try and see if having it on multiflora would be an improvement.

Same here. I will plant Palatine roses in Nov too. I also have some own root OGR bands don't grow much after 3 years, so I am trying grafted roses now.

mcnastarana & summersrhythm - you mentioned order from Palantine , so in your experience it will be ok to plant even bareroot roses in Nov for zone 6a/b .

Potted roses with extra protection I have done late summer/early fall plantings but thought bareroots wouldnt have the time to build the roots to survive winter .

I placed an order with Palantine but selected pickup in Spring , if fall planting is feasible I would certainly prefer that

You could always just try growing them indoors. I'm currently growing a red magnificent rosebush in my bedroom and it's beautiful. I needed a grow light for supplemental lighting but I got one I was very happy with. Grows the red magnificent but gives off a nice ambient lighting. It's called the Aspect and you can find it on Amazon or their website at www.soltechsolutionsllc.com. I'm pretty sure they're running a sale at the moment actually. Anyway, best of luck!

I believe the key to winter survival is root mass - lots of roots to store the carbohydrates the plant needs to survive so many months of cold and dormancy as well as enough roots to grab moisture from the soil during those months. A nursery potted rose has likely been in that pot all season and in my zone will do perfectly fine planted even as late as November. I've done it many times with great success. Listen to the true zone 5ers, but I'm sure the same would apply for you. Last year I even planted bands as late as October, winter protected them with a mound of mulch in an extra warm micro climate in my yard and they came out of the winter with flying colors hardy to the tips. The ground also didn't freeze last winter until January came around so that helped I'm sure.

Thank you to all who took the time to comment. Since they have a large root system, I think I will give a couple of them a try. Maybe if I try not to disturb the root ball too much that will help along with extra watering until the ground freezes and winter protection. I don't know if trying to grow them indoors or in the garage is feasible since we go to Florida Jan. to April. If they don't need water while in storage in the garage, I might consider that.

Jacquier, You are a "snowbird", good for you! We have many snowbirds in my area too since winter here is pretty cold, it can go down to -10F. Glad everything works out for you.

Devsense, Where are you in Canada? I am near Canada, 1 hr away from Palatine, I am in zone 6a. Is it Canadian zone 5=US zone 6? I planted 2 bare root rose trees(hardy Polar Joy) last year Nov. I wasn't sure about it at first, but the nursery lady told me they'd be fine, and they were totally Ok. I think last year we had a warmer winter, the ground wasn't frozen until Jan, and we had a lot of ice rain and snow. This year I am ready to plant more bare root. :-)

Jacquie,

I believe only a monthly checkup for hydration is necessary if garage kept. So if you are gone up to a month they will be fine during your absence. However you plan fo be gone much longer...I don't know?

Beware of temps falling below 25 F. in the garage. I have had temps that went a bit below 32 F in winter storage in my root cellar, and the entire root ball in the pot froze solid and stayed so for a couple weeks, defrost and then freeze again, off and on all winter long. These were always extremely gradual processes, and temps never went below 28 F. The roses were unfazed, broke dormancy in March ready to go.

Ice cannot physically go below 32 F, that is why it and snow, which is just powdered ice, are such good insulators top of a rose bed. It is the AIR temperature that is the winter killer of roses. Canes are killed at 17 F and of course lower. There are other factors involved concerning winter kill, particularly duration of cold spell.

As you can see by the many excellent ideas presented on the forum, a number of different ways of tacklng your question are possible. Why not experiment and try each rose under a different method and see which works best for you.

devsense, I am trying an experiment this year to see if roses received from Palatine, large plants grafted onto multiflora, in late fall can be planted when received and still be alive come spring. We shall see. The other Syracuse society members assure me they do this every year. I decided to try with two roses known to be cold hardy. If this works, that means I might be able to take advantage of the end of season sales at High Country Roses.

When I was a newcomer to roses, I sent an order into Nor'East Miniature Roses in December not knowing to specifying a May delivery. The roses came in early January, actively growing, in bud and flower and in full leaf! I immediately planted them in the garden, frozen soil and all, then mulched them heavily with fine pine bark mulch, about the size of a Cheeze-it cracker. When I ucovered them in late March they looked just as they did the day I received them in January. Not a leaf had dropped, although the buds did.

Truly, I would never recommend such a solution as above now, but roses are indeed remarkable in their adaptability and resilience, but stretch the limits too far and beware!

Opuntiamc, Which zone are you in? You must be in a warmer zone. May be I should call Palatine to pick up roses in the Spring. I ordered 20 roses, that's a lot of holes to dig in Nov......

Summersrhythm,

I am on the cusp of zones 5/6, W. PA. 10-15 degrees below zero F., can be expected so I have to be prepared for this reality. There was a -24 F. in my lifetime, in the 1970's (do any of you remember the scentists warning of the start of an ice age back then?).

The extreme lows are not generally long lasted, a few hours, but with wind chills counted in (which the USDA hardiness zones do not take into account), the matter gets worse. Compounded by the fact I am about 80 miles south of the snow belt line, so the protection snow cover affords is not applicable to me here.

I have only three roses in my garden that are rock solid tip hardy with no protection whatsoever. They are: Quietness (what a beloved rose!), Aunt Honey, and the climber Lady Ashe. The rest are in danger of winter damage/kill if not protected. Even with the best of winter protection there will be some cane dieback, by every inch of cane that has white pith is a victory over winter.

If you know where the roses will go, dig the holes now, a couple at a time.

I was wondering how container roses stay alive through winter in cold zones in a garage. I have read posts on Gardenweb that people indeed do it, and the roses can make it through the winter okay. But I have trouble understanding if it would work for me. My attached garage absolutely gets colder than 25 degrees for extended periods of time in Zone 6a. Outside we can get temps below zero for several days in a row, with lots of wind, and I'm sure my garage gets quite cold even though it is attached. I have had big pots of soil freeze solid in my garage. Wouldn't this kill a rose's roots?

@opuntiamc: What do you think of Aunt Honey? I have Distant Drums, and it is a gorgeous rose and blooms very well for me. I have been buying a lot of Austins and some floribundas but maybe I should look at more Buck roses. I had Hawkeye Belle years ago but it didn't thrive for me and died one winter.

Jacquie

A frozen solid root ball cannot be colder than 32 degrees F. Even if the air temperature is less than 32. The frozen root ball INSULATES itself from the lower air temp around it. Remarkable, isn't it.

Your problem is the AIR temp in your garage. You would have to heat the air to no more or no less than 25 degrees F. OR Perhaps you could insulate the above ground growth of the rose bushes. Maybe a kitchen garbage bag cut at both ends could be used. One end fastened around the rim of the pot, then the bag filled with leaves or what have you, then tied off. Since you will not have a wind chill factor, which I believe is a silent culprit greatly contributing to winter kill, this is not a problem for you.

I only winterize in an unheated root cellar, but it really gets passive heat from the heated cellar it is off of. I can crack the fruit cellar door open to keep it from dipping below 25 F. in there.

Perhaps your attached garage does not get as cold as you think? More knowledgeable folks who have attached garages need to help you on his one, sorry I'm not much help.

Thanks Opuntiamc! Out of your 3 tip hardy roses I only have Lady Ash, I will keep my eyes open for Quietness & Aunt Honey, Thanks for the tips. Now the problems is I am not sure where to dig 20 holes, I wasn't planning to order 20, I thought I'd stopped at 6....... :-) I emailed them see if I could pick up the roses in the spring. What are root cellar, fruit cellar? Are those part of your basement?

I am in zone 6a in NY by the Great Lakes, Lake Erie & Ontario. The temp can go down to -10F. It's always windy here during the winter months, a lot of snow too, all coming from the lakes. I have tried a lot of climbers/ ramblers, a lot of them just can't climb here in this ice hole.

Blank_generation, I know a little about storing potted roses in the garage. I store a lot of potted rose trees in an attached insulated garage every winter. The coldest temp here is -10F. The garage door is being opened and closed all the time through out the winter months, taking the snow blower in and out, starting up my scooters once a couple weeks for 10-15 mins each time......I am not sure the temp in the garage, it's not warm for sure. Most of the rose trees I have in the past 3 years are KOs, 23 KOS, 2 others. They are pretty hardy, so I just pile up the trees in 2 layers and water them once a months. This year I just added 14 HT and other rose trees from JP, I think I'd wrap up those HT trees with something for extra protection. Water them once a month is a must.

With lots of references to wind chill here, please remember that plants do not feel the wind chill, so just the air temperature is all that counts.

Thanks Richard. Since you are here I have a question for you, do you grow Monsieur Tiller, mme Antoine Mari, G. Nabonnand, and Louis Phippe in your zone?

summersrhythm - am also an hours drive from palantine but on the Canadian side in greater toronto area. mine is zone6a . I am gonna go with spring planting this year . will give fall planting a try next year .

I am glad you're close to Palatine too. What a great nursery to have nearby. You also close to Hortico, may be less than 30mins away. I heard people from other states drove hrs to Palatine for the spring pick up, an hr driving is really nothing. :-) Are there any other good rose nurseries in Canada nearby?

opuntiacmc, I have an attached coal cellar, but it only has two tiny windows. I don't think it ever freezes in there being almost totally underground, but do the roses need light? Also, how much should one water them. These are only in 2/3 gallon pots at the moment.... should I plant them into something larger. I'm so torn as to whether to plant my littlest one or try to overwinter in the cellar. Winters are so variable here in Cincinnati.

opuntiamc, summersrhythm, braverichard, and others, thanks for sharing your experiences and advice; I am learning a lot here. My garage is attached but uninsulated; does anyone here successfully overwinter potted roses in a cold zone in an uninsulated garage?

I think Seil stores her roses in a shed, she is in zone 5. I hope she sees this thread.

I wintered over roses in my garage for years. Sometimes babies, but usually things that just were never going to amount to anything outside in the ground. The garage is uninsulated, attached, and on the east side of the house, which here is the wind side (nor'easters are called that for a reason) I don't know exactly how cold it gets in there, but liquids often freeze solid. We always put small roses in cardboard boxes for a bit of extra insulation, but the ones that stayed in pots quickly got too big for any covering.

summersrhythm_z6a, sorry but no, I do not grow any of those roses you listed.

Thanks Richard. Those aren't for zone 6......I had to walk away.

summersrhythm - yeah Hortico is half way to Palantine . I used to go to Pickering earlier but after it shutdown , its pretty much the other 2 + local nurseries .

I didn't have a chance to visit Pickening, found this forum too late, I was hoping he could reopen ithis year, but he changed his mind...,,,,I might drive around in Canada near me, see if I can find any nurseries carry old garden roses. I will let you know if I find any.

Vaporvac,

No light needed during dormancy. Commercial rose growers harvest their bare root roses in the fall and keep them in cold storage in complete darkness.

Water as needed. They are not drinking, just need to be kept hydrated. Do not let them sit in water, roots will rot.

Repot or plant in ground in spring. Disturb the roots as little as possible when dormant.

Summersrhythm,

Houses built before refrigeration/electricity often had an unheated room off the basement in which perishable food items were stored to keep them cold and hydrated since these cellars were humid as well as cold. Iceboxes were kept in the kitchen for perishables like fresh meat, eggs and milk to keep at hand for ready availability. Root/fruit cellars were used for storage of perishables that had a longer shelf life but needed cold, but not as cold as an icebox. Foods were stored in them such as: apples, potatoes, carrots, cabbage, winter squash, cheese, cured meats, and bad little boys...just kidding!

Put a couple bushels of local, fresh picked McIntosh or Cortland apples in a root cellar at harvest time. Leave then there until they have turned fully ripe when they actually have a glow and feel like they have been rubbed with olive oil. This could be as late as December/January. They're slippery! Now, make applesauce from them, no sugar needed, just a little nutmeg and/or cinnamon. Freeze or can the sauce. You NEVER tasted a better, super healthy, more delicious applesauce in your life!

Wind chill has to do with the dessication of the canes and the resulting damage done through freeze drying. Some rosarians in cold climates spray their roses after leaf drop, about Thanksgiving time, with an anti-dessicant. Wilt Pruf is used. It is believed to afford protection.

Jacquie,

AUNT HONEY as I evaluate it.

Pros: rock solid winter hardy to the tip zone 5, as BS resistant as the Knockouts, vigorous growth, robust large leaves, very vertical growth...does not arch or sprawl 5'+H X 2.5'W, lovely flower in bud and exhibition stage, moderately fragrant 6-7 out of 10, bush exudes vigor and robustness.

Cons: Dead common pink, could use more petals, petals quill as the bloom ages past the exhibition stage to the boss exposure stage almost looking ugly, but not quite, center petals of full open stage a little disfigured not neat.

All in all this rose requires very little care and is a very, very good rose, but not excellent.

Opuntiamc, Thanks for the detailed explanation. I'd love to have those cellars!! :-) You're lucky to have those. I am wondering how much would cost to build one these days...... I will try the spray this fall. I heard this winter is going to be a cold one.

Summersrhythm,

I'm pretty sure a handyman can make a root/fruit cellar in a corner of an existing basement. It would have to be well insulated from the basement, but not on the outside walls. The interior walls would need to be a material other than dry wall because of the humidity. An outside window/vent to allow in cold air in a controllable manner would be a necessary feature.

Contemporary American lifestyles have made fruit cellars obsolete. For example, in fruit cellar days, the apple crop came in all at once and needed to be stored cold and humid all winter. As long as the apples lasted the fruit cellar was where they were kept.

Today, the commercial food industry stores our food for us under climate controlled conditions, and delivers their fruit to our local supermarkets all year long.