Hi Lori, could you explain a bit further how to identify a hue family using easyrgb? I went to the site but wasn't successful in navigating it.

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC here's a short video that explains it step-by-step. Hope it helps.

https://youtu.be/S8gf8lfuiRM

that helps explains it a bit more.

Lori, have you seen this one? I really like it because you can really dial in your own colors. At least I know what the RGB stands for. what about the other acronyms?

I think it's great to click on the different options to the left. for instance, if you wanted a complimentary color, clicking on that brings up some great matches. And by moving the dials, you can adjust saturation and tones.

https://color.adobe.com/create/color-wheel/?base=2&rule=Custom&selected=2&name=My%20Color%20Theme&mode=rgb&rgbvalues=0.05549400502524926,0.7063985591812669,0.75,0.03699600335016617,0.4709323727875113,0.5,0.07399200670033235,0.9418647455750226,1,0.018498001675083087,0.23546618639375566,0.25,0.06659280603029911,0.8476782710175204,0.9&swatchOrder=0,1,2,3,4

Anything Adobe comes from a classic, solid scientific foundation of how color works so you can trust them as a source with integrity. And it's usually beautifully designed as well as functional, like the link you shared.

At least I know what the RGB stands for.

For anybody else who doesn't know:

RGB means red, green, and blue channels of light that mix together to make a range of other colors - it's how your TV, smartphone, tablet, etc. displays colors. You can call RGB a color space. A "color space" means a range of colors. There aren't very many colors in the RGB color space. It's small. Its smallness is especially remarkable in comparison to all the colors we can see in real life - look at the picture below. RGB is especially short in greens and blues.

This is one reason why paint colors on your computer monitor or smartphone look SO different from how they look in real life.

what about the other acronyms?

When it comes to color for your house, or what color pro's call "the built environment", there are only FOUR things you need to understand:

Hue - the hue family a color belongs to like Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, etc. Hue is sometimes written as h°. Just like a human family, colors that have similar DNA is what makes up a hue family.

Value - a visual assessment of color compared to a gray scale. Value is how light or dark a color looks. Value is sometimes written as just a capital "V" or a capital "L" which means Lightness.

Chroma - how clean or grayed-down a color is and looks. Chroma is sometimes written as just a capital"C".

LRV - is a quantity. Measured with a device LRV tells you how much light a color reflects/absorbs expressed in % on a scale from 0% to 100%

If you understand these four parts of color, you can figure out any color conundrum AND customize color for individual, personal preferences.

Imaging hue, value, chroma and LRV as giant dials - like a volume control that you can turn up and down. Dials that you can use to adjust color to exactly what you want.

These four, key parts of color are what the Colorography infographics I make for paint colors are about.

Thank you so much, Lori, for the link to the tutorial on finding the hue family using EasyRGB! Very helpful, once you know what to look for!!!

Very helpful, once you know what to look for!!!

Yep. Once someone explains it, you see there's nothin' to it - so easy.

The more you use it, the more it makes sense . You start connecting more dots of how color really works which results in a big picture, in depth understanding of color. This is what real color expertise is about. :)

You will eventually come up with your own strategies to apply this know-how to improve - and streamline - your color design workflow. Which, of course, will help your business's bottom line because you can do more color work faster, more efficiently, and more accurately. A win for you and a win for the people you specify color for.

Hi again Lori--I've been on the easyrgb website and have found a few hue families for some colors, but for many I get a "too many colors match this name/code" message. What can be done to get around this? For example, I wanted to look up B. Moore Wheeling Neutral, Carrington Beige and Richmond Gray.

Thanks to Lori, I now have all this incredibly scientific info.... that for SOME reason, like someone who plays piano by ear or something??!!!! I have always "seen" without knowing why. With a good mixer, I can always get "it" on a wall. But it does remind me of one mix, over 15 years ago. I wanted a raspberry..not just any old raspberry mind you.. I wanted the juicy juice, crushed pulp, that in a perfect world would have been a 12 layer hand applied glaze. No resources for that endeavor from this client! So Manny the infamous , ( now long deceased) and I were at it for several tries. Several is ahem.... mild...? Reds are notoriously more difficult. They are "all pigment" and can go to mud in a heart beat. In an out of the store with "we're almost there, Manny !" he began to run and hide from me. But. We got it. When it was finally on four walls I nearly fainted from joy, and it looked so incredible, I almost was feeling I could leave the room totally empty. When he suddenly died mowing his lawn, I sent a note to his niece who took ownership of the store. , and said with some gallows humor that I may have been the one who killed him, with that color.. I bet he knew none of the reasons, but he could see......and his funeral service revealed just about every designer in town in the pews. A quintessential gentleman... with the "gift". We still say "remember Manny?" We sure do.

I get a "too many colors match this name/code" message.

Select, click on your color from the list that pops up under the window AS YOU'RE TYPING the color name in the window.

If you type in the whole color name and hit enter it will look like this and when you click on "Compare" you'll get the error message.

I am a data analyst by trade and I love color.
I love the mathematics and applied geometry of color.
I can find great color combinations by using math and applied geometry.

If you like the easy RGB site you may also like MyPerfectColor.com
Just checked all three colors that were not found in the EasyRGB site and found all three in MyPerfectColor.com.

Look up your paint color, click on the swatch and go to Navigate Colors. It will give you the HSL value and the closest colors in other brands. You can adjust the hue, saturation or light and it will provide you with suggested colors in a variety of brands.

It will give you the HSL value and the closest colors in other brands. You can adjust the hue, saturation or light and it will provide you with suggested colors in a variety of brands.

Noooooooo! :) lol!

You absolutely can not do that.

HSL is an ill-defined RGB transformation space. It was designed in
the 70s for graphic design applications, when a more accurate color model was too expensive to develop. As a result, HSL is the Edsel of color spaces - it was never a good idea.

My Perfect Color shouldn't have that on their website - it's a tragically bad choice.

RGB, sRGB, HSL, HSB, HSV are all additive color spaces which means they are about mixing channels of light. They do not model human visual perception in any way shape or form.

In architectural color it is strictly about hue, value, chroma - the three psychological dimensions of color, LRV, and CIE L*a*b, CIE LCh°. Because they are designed to model human visual perception.

OMG!!! LOL..... I am going to trust my eagle eye. Sorry, but if I see "pink" I do.... ditto any other darn thing I don't want in my paint: )

My lord, I feel like when a friends kids ( four year old triplets ) asked him in the car "where do babies come from?" His reply? "Mommy's TUMMY!!!" ........the next question was " how come my arm tastes salty in here......." He had to think about un-complicating that one

That's why I repeat over and over....

Hue, value, chroma, LRV - that's it.

Easy. Done. You don't need to focus on or know anything about any of the other terms or acronyms you might stumble upon about color.

Got interrupted and didn't get the chance to complete my thoughts.

Although I love the math side of color I have also found:

One - the math is only as good as the tools that we use to measure color. Most of the tools are not really all that good unless you are spending thousands of dollars. This is clearly shown when we try to get paint samples made through the color match systems.

Two - People don't feel confident about selecting colors for their homes because it is treated as some mystery. It really isn't that complicated and most of us practice every day. We get dressed every morning. If you owned a taupe jacket with purple gray undertones would you ever pair it with a yellow beige shirt? So why do we try to do this in our homes and expect better results? The truth is because we can't see the color based on a 1" square paper swatch. If we had to get dressed using 1" square paper swatches with the colors of our clothing we would probably screw that up too. Walls are large expanses of color. So instead of using a 1" square I start all of my painting projects with my collection of 8 1/2 x 11 samples. (I have collected about 300 samples). Before actually painting a room I get a sample jar of paint and paint a large poster board with the color. I live with that color for several days. I look at it in the morning and afternoon and evening. I look at it near the window and in dark recessed corner and next to my furniture. I look at it with lights turned on and lights turned off. It is often during this time that I find I have to tweak my colors to make them perfect.

Three - My parents built a Frank Lloyd Write designed home in the 60s. My mother taught me her secret to decorating with color. Find your inspiration from nature. Mother nature knows how to put colors together that work together. Think about a winter snowscape with winter berries sticking up through the snow. You have the ice blues and whites with a touch of gray branches and deep red berries. How about a seascape with the white capped blue waters and sandy beaches. Fall leaves, moss covered rocks next to a running stream. Mountainscapes, desertscapes, Fruits and flowers and birds and butterflies and insects. You want the perfect blue or green your gray walls - look at a gray cat and select the color of their eyes. Tan and gray together - look at the colors of a dilute calico cat. I found purple and green slate - it was a deep smoky purple gray with grayish teal green. Wow - beautiful!

Four - Find inspiration in your closet and your belongings. Most of us have certain colors that make our heart sing. We buy those colors over and over again because they make us happy. So why not envelop yourself in colors that make you happy? You should feel like a 10 in every room of your home.

Thanks, again, Lori! Now it works!

Are all the professional photos you look at in Houzz color disasters? They are represented in RGB tones. No, they do not represent the full gamut of colors that are visible with the naked eye but it gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect if you paint a room with the same color used in the design.

One - the math is only as good as the tools that we use to measure color. Most of the tools are not really all that good unless you are spending thousands of dollars.

The color data values on easyrgb.com come from a bench spectrophotometer in a temperature controlled area in their facility. They use internationally recognized standards for color measurement.

And they will only scan brand-new, in the wrapper fandecks. I know because I'm the one that sent them many of the American paint brand fandecks they scanned for their library.

It's not true that you have to spend thousands of dollars. The technology for color measurement has progressed at break-neck speed over the last five years - it's smaller, faster and accurate. Get the facts about Color Muse accuracy here. NIX Sensor is an award-winning device.

Layman version of teaching yourself to really see the color. Lori will shoot me.

Terminology is everything. There are methods for matching and it depends WHAT YOU ARE MATCHING. Advice for the paint store visit : ) .....and most mixers are not scientists.

Before any of this......found a chip? ISOLATE it. Fold the cardboard...hold it against plain white. Still in love?

A.You want the color you have seen on a chosen cardboard strip.
AHA!!! that "color" is not usually what you get on two dried coats. You
tell the mixer: "I want this to look exactly like the chip, the little
hunk of cardboard ..when two coats are dried. This means, he may
"shoot" the formula and you may need to tweak light or darker. But when
two coats are dried you are comparing YOUR dried sample to that eeny
weeny paper chip.

B. You have a Sherwin color and want Ben Moore paint, or vice versa.
Yes, either paint store will know the others formula for a given color.
But the same rule applies. You dry two coats on a little mat board IN
THE STORE.You either compare it to a dried actual sample of your coveted
color....or you take your chances!!! Yup, they always have a gloppy hair dryer behind that counter.

C , You have previously used paint: You don't know what the hell the
name or formula is. You have a can so slopped up and dry.....all is
illegible . Take it to the paint store. Yes... dry two coats right there
in the store. A switch plate can work too. A swipe of the new mix
should be literally invisible on the switch plate. If it is? you have
your match

D. Totally custom. You want the fruit color in this print, you want
the leaf color on a painted plate. Tip: rarely do you really want that
exact color. You want the SENSE of that color!! That leaf, that fruit, is
your starting point. Go to the wall, find a chip that is close ( usually lighter.)....and
be prepared to drive the paint mixer a bit nuts. That is what they are
there for. Stay out of the big box stores, they are point and shoot.

E. ............almost never do you want the color you think you want.
You almost always want it at a half or third strength..... : See A.
again. You probably also want a teeny more grayed down version as well. There is almost no PERFECT "chip" color for me. Picky,picky,picky

F. Testing at home/live..... its not seven swatches or boards taped to a
wall. If you have narrowed selection/ used a method from above, jump in and paint an entire wall. There's a reason the perfume counter advises a test of no more
than three scents- your nose goes "numb" . Same is true of color. You
see it by comparison to another, and more than one on a wall just numbs
your eye : ) In the end.........it is JUST PAINT. Not the destruction of wall or home.

but it gives you a pretty good idea of what to expect if you paint a room with the same color used in the design

Not really. Even the best quality monitor calibrated within an inch of its life can display only a fraction of the colors we see in real life.

Most people are viewing those Houzz photos on a phone, tablet, monitor of average quality, etc. And no one calibrates anything.

Shoot, I know how to do it and have all the stuff to get it done but I only calibrate my monitor a couple times a year when it's slow.... and I have to be pretty bored taboot.

Not to mention how the photos were captured to begin with, the equipment, the color space settings on the camera, the inherent lighting. And God only knows how the photos were manipulated prior to posting.

Lori will shoot me.

lol! Never! Can't even imagine what this community would be without you, JAN - certainly not as colorful. ;)

There are all kinds of good-eye-for-color techniques that have been around for decades and they all have been passed down over the ages.

2018 is right around the corner. Millennials and younger generations who live their lives from their smartphones aren't going to shuffle through a stack of paint chips.

Because of their understanding of -and dependence on- technology they're going to demand, smarter, more efficient methods for choosing color - not just paint either.

Incorporating color data values in a color design workflow is a fresh, modern approach and like it or not, these new perspectives on color are what's going to be in demand; it's the trajectory of color design for the built environment.

I can't remember the last time a thread went totally off the rails like this one and completely usurped the OP's need for color help. Used to happen a lot on the old Garden Web.

Sincere apologies to the OP.

Lori's point with tech advance has merit indeed. Should we really be surprised when a site like Blue Apron can exist to focus on young "foodies" with disposable income aplenty? The caveat of course is end use. How many folks are paying for those inventive food pairings, shipped in a box with tiny amounts of spices.....? No clue. I do know you eventually have to open the box, follow the instructions to prepare, grab a luxury quality pan you ordered on Amazon Prime, and finally EAT it.

However you choose your paint, narrow selection down, make it flow in your home ? It's going to end on a wall via a guy in spattered jeans and a roller or via you in a similar outfit. You are going to stand back and love it, or hate it. Let's hope you love it, and if you don't ? It's paint. : ) In the same way that Blue Apron meal probably won't be your last.......there is always another gallon to be had and endless opportunities to change a wall or two. Or four lol

What was the question again??? hahahahahhahaha

Just some FYIs . . .

RGB color theory was developed based on how the cones in the human eye respond to Red, Blue and Green wavelengths.

RGB color space on a computer monitor is limited to the international standards for transmission of data over the internet.

HSB and HSL are translations of RGB. (You notice that they are all based on 3 vectors). They are based on the way most people perceive color - hue, % Saturation, % brightness instead of the number of open circuits transmitting Red, Green and Blue color to your screen.

International standards are just standards adopted by the International Standards Organization - it does not mean that it is the best technology available, it means that it is the standard that should be applied to guarantee compatibility around the globe. An inch is measured as an inch in every country. A nut and bolt fit together without regard to manufacturer because they are threaded per ISO standards.

MyPerfectColor.com uses the same color formulas as your local Benjamin Moore store. It is a good website as is easyrgb.com.

EasyRGB is providing RGB values (I thought RGB was worthless).
EasyRGB is using the top of the class bench spectrophotometer and scanned paper ink images of the colors (fandeck). (Proof that it is accurate), and I can by a $59.00 handheld spectrophotometer that will provide me with results just as accurate. I am not going to explain the technology - but the hand held devices fail on many levels - especially on light and less saturated color.

These are all just tools that we use to help in the selection of color - none of them are perfect, but hell, we don't even know if what I perceive as red is anything like what you perceive as red. We just both learned to call that wavelength red. I do know that I can take a picture of my nephew on my phone and send it to his grandmothers e-mail and she sees a picture of her grandson and not some alien monster.

As for using 2" square color swatches - Maria Killam, "True Color Expert", and Gretchen Schauffler, creator of Devine Color both say that interior designers and color experts are no better at seeing color on a 2" paper swatch than a typical homeowner. Maria uses 11"x14" swatches and Gretchen uses 8"x11".

They are based on the way most people perceive color

This is not correct.

"Next let us examine some of the RGB transformation spaces. Two of the most common are called HSL and HSV. These spaces have been developed for computer graphics applications as simple transformations from RGB color spaces with dimensions that approximate appearance attributes. HSL stand for hue-saturation-lightness and can be visualized as a bi-cone with black at a point at the bottom, white at a point at the top, and highly saturated colors around the perimeter in between. HSV stands for hue, saturation, and value and can be visualized as a cone with black at the bottom and satruated "bright" colors at the top.

Both spaces are designed as simple transformations from RGB and are therefore ill-defined since RGB is ill-defined. Even with a good definition of RGB, such as sRGB, these spaces have little perceptual meaning. They make no attempt to model visual perception and do not use the definitions of the perceptual attributes accurately or consistently. Other similarly defined spaces exist.

The moral? When using RGB spaces, know what they are and their transform to CIE XYZ in order to fluidly move among them. With regard to spaces like HSL, beyond being ill-defined, they can really be avoided since real color spaces are now easy to implement and use."

Source: Handbook of Color Psychology

Andrew J. Elliot, Mark D. Fairchild, Anna Franklin

Cambridge University Press, Nov 30, 2015

EasyRGB is providing RGB values (I thought RGB was worthless).

They are useless to an architectural color designer specifying color for the built environment. However, they're very useful to a graphic designer, for example.

The HSL color space is not useful to anyone and no one should use it for anything.

EasyRGB includes a wide range of data values in order to serve a wide range of designers.

I am not going to explain the technology - but the hand held devices fail on many levels - especially on light and less saturated color.

If you're not prepared to back up your opinion with data - and the source of the data - then you shouldn't speak to it at all.

What is the fail rate? Is it astronomical or is it within a reasonable range of margin of error that is expected and acceptable for devices of their kind?

Qualify "light and less saturated color" - how many colors are we talking about - exactly - out of a typical fandeck? Less than 1%? More than 10%?

MyPerfectColor.com uses the same color formulas as your local Benjamin Moore store.

My Perfect Color *IS* a Benjamin Moore store in New Jersey. It's a big store and they have a big website to go with their big store.

It is a good website as is easyrgb.com.

Can't compare the two. That HSL sliding scale thing on the MPC website is just a hot mess and no one should use it for anything ever.

The ASTM is one of the best - if not THE best - resource for color measurement and appearance standards: https://www.astm.org/cms/drupal-7.51/newsroom/new-edition-astm-international-standards-color-and-appearance-measurement

Typical, basic standards for measuring color means using a standard illuminant like D50 or D65 and a standard observer 2° or 10°.

EasyRGB uses the D65 standard illuminant, 2° observer.

Okay - you know everything and the rest of the world is obviously color impaired and completely devoid of knowledge.

Amazingly, without any of your tools or your vast knowledge, I repaired this vase using epoxy modeling compound, a basic set of 12 acrylic paints and a matte varnish that I bought at Michaels.

Okay - you know everything and the rest of the world is obviously color impaired and completely devoid of knowledge.

Maybe I do.

Or maybe it's more like if you're going to approach color from a color data values point of view, there is zero wiggle room for people to be kinda-sort-of-right. There's over a hundred years of documented research about color systems and spaces and human visual perception. If I found it and figured it out, anybody can.

I got lucky with two rooms in my home, I really am pleased with the paint I selected so would it be a good idea to stick with the same color family (when I figure out what they are)?

Yes. Using different tints, tones and shades from the same hue family is a classic, whole-house color strategy that comes with built-in flow. The light in each room and the contents of each room will dictate how light or dark, how vivid or dull each color needs to be.

Lori,

Thank you for the help. I included a few photos of my home, my living room is BM 1040 Spiced Gold (Matte) and my dining room is BM Dijon. I have a cape cod style home so all the rooms kind of lead into the other. The bedroom I'm giving am a makeover is upstairs, which I think I mentioned. The room is 16' x 17' (not including a dormer and another little jog in the room (3'x5' approx). The room has angled/cathedral (I don't know the proper term), with 3' high knee walls. I'm thinking of painting all walls the same rather than keeping the angled walls white (I think it looks choppy). I've read so many comments and articles on this dilemma that my head is spinning so I thought I would pose this question to you since you explain or describe in a way my design challenged brain can understand. The front dormer w/window faces East and the other window faces North.

The room will be ready for paint this week but can't pick out a color until I know what to do with the angled walls.

I will post a pic of the actual room I'm working on via the app (I'm using my desktop now), and if I'm unable to add it to this message after posting, it will likely end up in my "ideabook" or somewhere in my profile.

Thanks for sharing your wealth of info, and your videos are awesome, I've watched so many on You Tube, and subscribed to your channel ;)

P.S. ~ Is there a secret to figuring out the BM numbering system by paint collection? I can call BM and ask for help or I guess I can look up each paint color individually.

I'm thinking of painting all walls the same rather than keeping the angled walls white (I think it looks choppy). I've read so many comments and articles on this dilemma that my head is spinning so I thought I would pose this question to you since you explain or describe in a way my design challenged brain can understand.

Your instincts are spot-on. Paint the walls and ceiling the same color to eliminate the "choppy" feel in the space.

Is there a secret to figuring out the BM numbering system by paint collection? I can call BM and ask for help or I guess I can look up each paint color individually.

Nope. They're just numbers - it's not a system. Each color is given a number for sequential referencing but the numbers per se don't mean anything - they don't describe or define the characteristics of the paint color

Are you thinking about Clay Beige? It's a good option if you are.

I went ahead and checked out the Clay Beige and as I'm sure you already knew it falls in line with the color family I wanted :) (the RGB website is amazing, THANK YOU!!). I'm also looking at Manchester Tan. Would you lean toward one over the other? I put actual photos of the room in my ideabook under "Guest Bedroom."

I am leaving the plank floor and will stain it white or black & use area rugs. I have a beautiful chandelier that will go in that room. I like the rugged, unfinished floor with a chandelier which makes sense because I like lace or ruffles with ripped up/distressed jeans. I just had a lightbulb moment, my style is the same as my life, a big contradiction! Holy.... :)

Manchester Tan and Clay Beige are so close you could call them the same color.

Clay Beige is one very tiny perceptual tick closer to the middle of the yellow hue family than Manchester Tan. And for that reason I'd choose Clay Beige - considering the other colors you have to work with in terms of some flow.

Lori,

I've learned so much from you, and think there is hope for me yet. I think I mentioned, I know what I like and know when things don't work, but never had a clue why, and not to say that I won't face that in the future, but I have a better idea of what to pay attention to.

With regard to the floor, It is a larger room, and would love your thoughts regarding the floor stain. I'm thinking either white or black, either way distressed.

I'm getting so excited to get this room going.

Lori,

Found something this weekend while looking for potential taupe colors for a project.

Remember saying how accurate the Nix and Color Muse tools are and then stating "if you're going to approach color from a color data values point of view, there is zero wiggle room for people to be kinda-sort-of-right."

Please explain again how wrong I was when I said that color math is only as good as the tools used to measure the color. Is Poised Taupe 4YR or 5YR or 1YR?

Oh that is such a good question, Jennifer! I love it that you are really thinking about this.

The big difference as illustrated on the Sherwin Williams Poised Taupe graphic that you posed (and I made) is the illuminant. We have TWO illustrated - D65 and D50. An illuminant mimics a light source; D65 and D50 are two different colors of light - you can see what they look like on the diagram below.

The light is boss. Change the light and you change how the color looks.

I used two different illuminants on purpose to demonstrate how a Poised Taupe's hue family shifts based on the light source.

So, easyRGB and the NIX are very close 4YR and 5YR - that's an expected and acceptable margin of error. Actually, it's an amazingly tiny margin of error considering we're talking about two different devices measuring two different color chips in two different environments.

The Color Muse measurement for Poised Taupe's hue family is 1YR because I measured the color with a D50 illuminant - a different color of light. It SHOULD be different from notations calculated from measurements captured under a D65 illuminant.

The point of the graphic I made, the bottom line is Poised Taupe belongs to the Yellow-Red hue family, D65/2° and D50/2°. If Poised Taupe shifts and looks purple-ish or reddish or whatever, then we know the quality of light is not balanced and from that point of knowing, we can develop an informed color strategy for the space.

The fact that all three of these notations in this example are so close is a testament to the efficacy and usefulness of these inexpensive hand-held color measurement tools.

Being able to toggle between illuminants, like D65 and D50, with these devices is super helpful because it enables the color pro to get two different perspectives on a color. Since every person sees color differently, it's helpful to take a look at color notations from two illuminant perspectives because it helps a color pro anticipate how a color could be perceived differently by different humans.

When it comes to color data values, all the dots connect every single time. If there is a disconnect or inconsistency, there's a reasonable reason. Even if that reasonable reason is the human perception of color is a natural phenomenon and shift happens.

With regard to the floor, It is a larger room, and would love your thoughts regarding the floor stain. I'm thinking either white or black, either way distressed.

Well, that's a dramatic difference in choice. :D If you have the light to support it, I'd go darker on the floors. If you don't, then go lighter.

I've lived with both light and dark floors. IMO, they both show dirt equally - either way you have to buy a Swiffer so chose the one you love most.

I guess your tolerance for error is far greater than mine. If they are both using a D65 illuminant the hue should be identical. In my book the difference between 1YR, 4YR and 5YR is huge 1 YR being almost pure red and 5 YR being pure orange. Using a 5000 k light bulb and a 6500 k light bulb will make your oranges appear more red, but only slightly. I have a 6500 k light over my stove and 5000 K everywhere else - it is something I notice, but no one else notices. My oranges do not appear cherry red when sitting on my stove.

Representative of 1YR, 4YR and 5YR

I guess your tolerance for error is far greater than mine

It's not about *my* anything. We can objectively quantify the differences using color measurements and calculating the Delta E.

Representative of 1YR, 4YR and 5YR

What's your source for these color swatches that you think are representative of Munsell 1YR, 4YR and 5YR?

I totally agree that I have complete opposites, and narrowed it down to those because I didn't know what other options would be versatile down the road and thought that either one is a safe bet. I have hardwood in most rooms, and selected a white kitchen floor (ohhh I was young & stupid) and the previous owner did black tile floor in bathroom. I totally agree about the cleaning challenges.

The room will have a very different feel depending on which way I go. I'll have to give it some thought and try to visualize it and go from there. I have a little tile to think on it.

Thanks to you and the info you provided, I am excited rather than stressed!! Yeah!

I am going to watch a few more videos to learn more about using the color wheel to find complimentary colors, etc..., but in the meantime, this is probably a silly question, but if I wanted to paint furniture gray (totally hypothetical) would I need to find a gray that falls in the same family as Clay Beige? I'm honestly trying to learn, its so fascinating, especially when my career is building small businesses, so the other side of my brain hasnt been exercised, better late than never.

If they are both using a D65 illuminant the hue should be identical.

Not true. Different devices, different samples measured in different environments.

It's engineering/science/data 101 - there is an acceptable and expected margin of error for minimal differences device to device, sample to sample.

If the data are too perfect, that's when you should be suspicious.

if I wanted to paint furniture gray (totally hypothetical) would I need to find a gray that falls in the same family as Clay Beige?

You could. I would venture a guess that grays from this hue family neighborhood would tend to look "neutral" in most contexts. So, there'd be some risk it wouldn't work with other wall colors, other contents and decor items but the risk would be kinda low.

Might be easier to just choose a fun color that would always be a fun color no matter the wall color or decor. If you're going to all the trouble to paint it, why paint it gray. (unless you really, really love gray).

I'm honestly trying to learn, its so fascinating, especially when my career is building small businesses, so the other side of my brain hasnt been exercised, better late than never.

Learning how color really works can be addictive. Once you're bitten, it's hard to stop. I was bitten 20 years ago and I've been obsessed ever since - it's truly my passion.

As soon as you get one piece of the 'how-color-works puzzle' figured out, it leads to another until eventually the entire color puzzle comes together for you and you have a literal a-ha moment about how color really works. You quickly evolve to a point that you're gobsmacked that more people don't know what you know about color because it is so easy once you do get it - once you see how color really works, you'll never look back.

And it will most definitely make you think.

After all this learning queenbe11 have you made a choice. When discussing color I’ve always used hue or tone but ever since I started reading from this forum a lot pro use undertones. Now I won’t stop saying it but when you look up the definition of undertone it’s the subdue or muted tone of color.

queenbe11 There is a fun program that can help you learn about color and the math/science of color. If you take a color wheel and place triangles, squares, rectangles within the color wheel you will find that you end up with color schemes that work well together.
Paletton.com is a web design program that allows you to choose monochromatic color schemes, add complementary colors (directly across from the primary color, create triad or tetrad patterns. You can either change the distance of points by dragging one of the color indicator dots or you can change the distance by entering the degree difference you want. You can fine tune colors by adding brightness or saturation or adjusting contrast. All you need to start playing is the Hex code for the color you want to start with.
Once you have played with the color schemer for a while and you find something that you think you like you can view examples. One section of examples are all web pages, but the other section has artwork.
It is a great place to get a feel for how hues play together.