I understand the dilemma and sympathize with how your husband feels. That said, what if one of the products needs warranty work? Will the show room be able to do that from a few hours away? What if a wrong product is delivered? Sometimes it's better to go local.

Like the above post, when we built our current house I visited various lighting showrooms, flooring stores, etc. I let them know immediately that I was building a house a few 100 miles away and needed to see the products locally.

You get the plumber's warranty by ordering through him. You don't get that by ordering through the showroom. A showroom is used to working with customers that don't buy.

Heck when I used to do art shows, I'd spend time with people explaining a particular drawing or explaining my process of doing a commission, talking pricing, colors, and basically spending lots of time with them. Then they'd walk because they had to "think about it" never to be seen again. It's all part of business in retail. If I had a nickel for every customer who took up my time and didn't buy, I'd be rich now.

Buy through the plumber. If you buy, who is responsible for damaged, wrong or missing items. And, warranty ?

Toughie. I think having somebody local for warranty issues justifies buying from local plumber.

Well...lots of good comments above. Have you received prices to compare?

Like people probably cancel on her all the time without an explanation. I was thinking a call to at least say "never mind, thanks for the help" would be a like a breath of fresh air.

Ask your plumber.

It appears you have a long standing relationship with the plumbing company. If they are willing to disclose their markup and it seems fair, they are probably the better choice.

Send the sales associate a nice thank you and a gift certificate to a nice restaurant for her help.

I'm not saying automatically just purchase from our plumbers but at least give them a chance to bid.

Ryan...you said a good plumber that shows up and doesn't pad the bill is hard to find. These guys are awesome and we use them all the time. That's why I feel so strongly about this.

Mega-flush 5000, lol

cp...good analogy. This makes me feel a little less guilty, lol.

Virgil..I have received prices from the distant place. Example...the Kathryn Kohler one piece toilet was 650. The exact same price as Build.com and Amazon. So, her prices were very good.

Mark...you are too funny. When dh told our plumber that we drove to the "city" and looked at tubs and were ordering from the place where we saw them, I thought the plumber actually sounded upset. Which made me upset.

Summit...your first paragraph hit the nail on the head and I love your advice on how to handle this.

Najeebah...maybe...but I'm afraid to take a chance on hurting our business relationship with these plumbers. Small time, limited resources. A good plumber is hard to find.

Thanks all for all the great advice and viewpoints. I will let you know the outcome by the weekend.

Long long time ago I was in sales for a fortune 500 company and no one expects to close every single quote or sales presentation they give. We can't all get participation trophies in life ... only one person wins.

I am shopping for my kitchen backsplash. I went to the major showrooms in LA and had a sales person spend time with me, give me some prices and some ordered a few samples. It is the cost of doing business. I won't decide which backsplash will be best until counters are in, when I do, that person/store will get a sale of $6K+. The other stores, by giving me their time, will get me to come back again when I have another project.

I have a right to shop around for the best product for my project and feelings/emotion are not part of the transaction. Not a question of ethics at all.

Your DH feels bad for the young woman ... would he feel differently if it had been a surly older guy? ;-)

I would go with the plumbing company, but if his prices are more, I would ask him to price match the other store. Worth a try, but I would also be willing to pay a bit more for the service/warranty and peace of mind that they provide.

Agree with summit, I would send her a nice card with a generous gift certificate.

Would also post reviews on Yelp and Goigle reviews, specifically naming her, and send a letter to her boss.

Why does one need to send her a generous gift certificate?

Do you send a gift certificate to the salesperson in the shoe store that helps you if you wind up not buying the shoes?

Or what about the salesperson in the phone store who spends hours pointing out the pros and cons and how to work the different phones and then you decide to buy the phone through Amazon? Should you get him/her a gift certificate too?

How about the woman in the boutique dress shop who spends hours with you while you try on dresses for a special occasion and then you decide that none of them are right for the occasion? Does she get a gift certificate too?

If you want to do anything, write a nice Yelp or Google review.

I agree 100% with chispa.

There is of course a middle ground. Buy some from the showroom and some from the plumber. We did this in a sense. The plumber had good prices on Moen, Toto and Delta but not on American Standard, Grohe and HansGrohe.

So we bought Toto, Moen and Delta from plumber. The other ones were internet.

Just a comment about warranty work. Plumbing is meant to be simple and quality is regarded as very important. Let's not stress too much about warranty work on residential plumbing. All the majors give free parts to homeowners. Many/most charge the plumbers. Most of this is an issue 5 years out anyway and yes, labor is way more costly than parts. But I have never had a short term warranty issue with residential plumbing.

Business idea for homeclick etc. Charge 5% for a plumbing install warranty. Cover up to $250 in cost for a plumber to come back for warranty work. Pure profit....

Actually David we had a problem with our brand newly installed Brizo faucets when they were installed in our condo Reno 7 years ago. Our plumber came back 2x to fix it before exchanging for a new part. All at no charge to us.

Things happen. A bad batch or a missing part for example.

I would argue that is a brand issue. Moen, Delta not Brizo. I've been scared away from every single luxury brand over reliability concerns.

When I started spec building, I'd shop plumbing fixtures separately from plumbing installation. Cheaper that way--except when it came to returns, warranties, mis-shipped parts, deliveries, etc. After that, I got plumbing prices all-in. Will the saleswoman be inconsolable, terminally depressed, suicidal? Then she's in the wrong business. And you've done her a favour!

My grandfather owned a large refrigeration wholesale company. I'm quite familiar with pricing.

With the advent of the internet - you can buy just about at wholesale level. Further, many times there is no sales tax, and many offer free shipping with a sizable order.

The products are warranted by the manufacturer - not the plumber.

I’m amazed at the recommendations to send a money or gift card to the sales person. That’s insane. Sales is her job. Every customer is not a guaranteed sale.

I test drove 5 different suvs beforehand purchasing one — met lots of nice salespeople. I didn’t buy 5 suvs and didn’t mail out conciliatory gift cards.

Write a nice review. No guilt necessary.

Fascinating viewpoints. Off to appt with kitchen designer. Later folks.

Designhome - I hope I'm misinterpreting your comment "im sure if it were a hot guy, he wouldnt give a hoot if the dude got paid or not"

I find your post totally rude! ILoveRed's DH sounds like a conscientious person; I have had the same concerns regarding salespeople and their time and commissions, paying no mind to whether someone is "hot."

What a ridiculous comment. Grow up.

eta: Ryan Olivieri, Inc. as a Pro it is particularly foolish of you to "like" Designhome's comment. I hope that's not the attitude you take with your clients.

Get prices from both. Talk to both about warranties. Think about what would be best for you. Then, do what's best for you. Don't pay extra to anyone because you feel guilty or out of some sort of sense that it would be disloyal if you didn't. This is business. There are no ethical requirements for you to pay someone more for the same item. I'm willing to bet both companies understand this, though I'm sure that both wouldn't be sorry if you felt the need to pay them more for the same thing when you could get it for less from someone else.

Ah! I bet warranty claims with the plumber would cover materials AND labor if they sold you the fixtures at a markup

The ethical dilemma was on the front end, before you decided to spend 3 hours with someone you wouldn’t buy from. It’s called showrooming. And it’s driving brick and mortars out of business. If you want to still touch something before you buy, you need to support displaying dealers and honor the time they spent with you. You received value there.

Which brings us around to why didn’t you spend 3 hours with your plumber’s showroom and his account manager there?

Benjesbride...thanks. You are correct. It has nothing to do with the sales girl being hot or not. DH is a good guy and yes conscientious.

Veggiegardner...thank you. Well, right now that is what I want dh to agree to. Get prices from both and give the plumbers distributors and the plumber a chance. I appreciate your common sense advice.

Sophie..I always appreciate your advice and straightforward approach and this is no exception. You are correct. I feel badly that I spent so much time with her and that we may not end up buying from her. In hindsight, I wish I had just looked at the freestanding tub she had in stock which was my original intention and then left the place.

unfortunately our plumbers distributor doesn't have a large showroom. I did call the contact person that he told me to call before we decided to drive a distance.

I admit it...not handled well.

"Do we owe the other company our business since their employee spent almost 3 hrs with us and worked through lunch? Plus her time spent preparing the bid after we left?"

No. She deserves to go out of business for not qualifying and closing her sales and for providing valuable services to her competition for free. The marketplace is brutal; its lessons are cruel.

No. She deserves to go out of business for not qualifying and closing her sales and for providing valuable services to her competition for free. The marketplace is brutal; its lessons are cruel.

Joe...that is exactly the advice my tough brother would give.

ILoveRed:

And I get b!@#$%d at here for not providing "free estimates". Maybe now they know why.

I had a similar situation. I found exactly the fixtures I wanted at a huge plumbing outfit outside of Cincinnati. I HAD looked at the two local places my plumbing company buys from and they did not have what I wanted at any price. This place did, and the prices were outstanding.

I asked my plumber about me providing the fixtures. He said he intended to make a certain amount on this job, and that if I provided the fixtures he would not, so instead he would raise his labor cost to an equivalent amount. Okay - his game, his rules.

So, I called a plumber whom a close friend of mine had raved about for years. He was a one man operation and she thought him fabulous. She was known for her pickiness and her cheapness so I thought he surely must be a good plumber. I hired him - he actually preferred that I provide the fixtures - easier for him.

At first, I thought he was doing an excellent job. Then he stopped showing up and told me he was quitting plumbing and going to school to do something in computer science. But he promised me he would finish my job - it would just have to be on weekends. It took him forever.

A few weeks after he finished, I walked into my 1st floor full bath and there was water all over the floor. I immediately turned off the valves under the sink (that's where the water was coming). He came to fix it 5 days later - he had "forgotten" to tighten something. Not a good felling now about this guy...

Then two months later, I walked into my LR to turn on a light and saw a big wet spot on the rug. I turned to my dog and said, "Godfrey, how could you!" I went to get towels and club soda, and while I was cleaning up, I felt water drip on my head. I looked up and water was pouring down onto a newly (very expensively!) upholstered chair, and was now moving on to a crack - plaster ceiling. I raced down the basement and turned off the valves to the 2nd floor. I called the plumber who had installed new faucets in this bathroom (all fixtures stayed). He said he has sold all his plumbing tools and couldn't help me. Grrrr.... Called my old, regular plumber and they came and said something might be a faulty part and replaced it. I called the plaster repair people and they said it would be easier to put drywall over the plaster. This involved a LOT of moving of books and decorative objects in the LR, plus all furniture, rug and curtains. A HUGE job. They installed the new ceiling and were just starting to put the crown molding back up, when I again felt a drip - it was coming through the drywall seam. Called plumbers back - they said it was a leak in my roof - in the valley. Called the roofer - he said no leak. Plumbers came back and discovered it was something else causing the leak - work done by the "cheap" plumber. Of course, I still had to pay for the first work as I could not "prove" it was not faulty (he didn't work there).

So, with the deductible for the LR, and the two plumbing bills, I was probably where I would have been if my plumber had provided the fixtures and faucets. No, I would NOT have gotten what I wanted, and that was the problem. I've had no trouble with any of the faucets themselves - still fine after 6-7 years. But I wish I could have found a way to use my plumbing company. I would never again use a one-man operation.

"Heck when I used to do art shows, I'd spend time with people explaining a particular drawing or explaining my process of doing a commission, talking pricing, colors, and basically spending lots of time with them. Then they'd walk because they had to "think about it" never to be seen again. It's all part of business in retail. If I had a nickel for every customer who took up my time and didn't buy, I'd be rich now."

Respectfully, no, this is a lack of salesmanship and an ability to close the sale, just like our plumbing supply woman suffered.

When your prospects say they need to "think about it", you ask them "What's to think about?" Then shutup.

If a guy does a crappy drywall job no one has a problem complaining. When we see repeated examples of an incompetent salespersons, no one seems to care. If he's good at his job, there is never a complaint of "high pressure" either.

Joe I happen to be a good salesperson but when I don't close the sale, it has nothing to do with my salesmanship and usually has to do with the fact that either they didn't want to pay my prices (because artists should make starving wages), it didn't match their couch (which means they really didn't love it) or they were deciding between mine and another piece of art in a different booth.

Art is not the same as purchasing the plumbing fixture at store A or B. It's more like those in the kitchen forum who "know it" the minute they find their stone slab. Every drawing I do is different from the one before and is completely different from what anyone else has

Sorry, cpartist, but "think about it" is endemic to all sales situations, cars, art, plumbing, you name it. Like a chip in a countertop, it can be overcome with skill and practice.

Anglophelia...thanks for posting. What a calamity of errors.

"I asked my plumber about me providing the fixtures. He said he intended to make a certain amount on this job, and that if I provided the fixtures he would not, so instead he would raise his labor cost to an equivalent amount. Okay - his game, his rules."

when our GC got our bids from the subs several of them (including the plumbing) were for labor only. but, they can't raise their prices in the middle of the job because we have a bid price. I still want our subs to make a good profit because we have the best subs around. It's tough to know the best thing to do.

Joe cars and plumbing are NOT the same as buying art. You can buy a Lexus from dozens of showrooms. Same with a Delta or Rohl faucet. The only place you can buy my one of a kind drawing of my peonies is from me.

Have a conversation with your plumber about his local showroom’s lacking in the display department. Have that conversation with them too. They need to kno it could affect future business.

Have your contractor talk to the other more distant showroom to see if he’d develop a relationship with them too. There is no reason he can’t work with both of them. If his plumbing supply house is more basic and concerned with parts and pieces and pipe than fixtures, then that is where the plumber can continue to go for those items.

But maybe he would appreciate working with a showroom that offers more fixture choices to his customers. As long as they are good name brands, and not cheepchinesecrapola, who cares if the showroom is 3 hours away. Delta has sent parts overnight direct to the job site any number of times, with a showroom asking. It doesn’t matter if that job site is 3 miles, 300miles, or 3000 miles if the showroom is a good partner. FexEx and FaceTime have made a great deal of distance an obsolete concept.

It doesn’t hurt to ask. Let your plumber make the call.

"Joe cars and plumbing are NOT the same as buying art. You can buy a Lexus from dozens of showrooms. Same with a Delta or Rohl faucet."

cpatrist:

Please don't put words into my mouth. I said no such thing. I said the "have to think about it" objection is identical in all cases. It is.

"The only place you can buy my one of a kind drawing of my peonies is from me."

Exclusivity. That's an excellent close. Use it, please.

I don't think your plumber's relationships with this or that showroom are your problem. I also don't think it would be a bad idea for you to price out those fixtures at a third location.

Despite the fact that people in the construction industry would like you to feel guilty, or whatever, for pricing your fixtures at multiple locations, you do not owe it to anyone to pay them extra for anything. I'll bet your plumber and the people in that showroom you went to do not pay anyone extra for things out of any sense of guilt or loyalty or anything else. That's not how business works. There's also nothing wrong with you shopping online, imo, though others would probably like you to feel like that's some sort of awful ethical violation (it's not).

Why did the woman at the showroom have to spend so long looking up prices, anyway? That's ridiculous, imo, and it's not your problem. The prices should be readily available to both the people who work there and to their customers. It shouldn't take hours.

Thanks Sophie. Great advice.

As a matter of fact when we built our last house around 2003 or so our plumber (the same ones) sent us to his large distributor in that city. . We picked out everything and our plumber purchased the products from them and installed everything.

Fast forward...When we were talking to the young lady at the showroom the other day we mentioned this place to her. She said that the same distributor owns her showroom and a couple of others in the city. So, apparently our plumber did work with them in the past and stopped for whatever reason.

i will talk to my plumber and take your advice. He really needs a better source for his customers to see and feel the products. Maybe he will hook back up with the other one and have another place to send his customers.

Mdln.. ;-)

...I don't know how long it took her to work up this spec sheet with all of the prices because she did it after we left her store but it was very precise and well done so I'm just assuming it took her awhile.

I could get prices from a third party as well. And I know I don't have to feel guilty. But honestly it's more than that. The family that owns this plumbing business are just like so many trying to pay their bills and make a profit.

I know because we are in business as well. And as I reminded dh today when we need plumbing services..we call them and they are there within hours. That business relationship is not worth fracturing. (Poor sentence but you know what I mean).

And we learned a lesson. I won't do that again. I didn't even mean to. I just got caught up in the excitement of actually being able to see the products I had been researching.

I do appreciate your pov and thanks for posting it -)

now I've got to get two bids from tile/flooring stores here in town. Friends with both owners. Grrr.

I can see why none of the builders around here will give a fixed price bid. What a lot of time to put into something and maybe not get the job.

ps...I do shop online i.e.; amazon. I don't shop wal-mart. I always shop my local grocery store and buy a daily newspaper despite the fact that it's far, far left and I don't read it...just because I like having our small town to have a daily paper ;-)

sorry for getting so far off topic.

There is really no way to make a fair comparison without pricing out both plumbing fixtures and the labor to install them. Your plumber may be more expensive on fixtures but less expensive on labor. Unless your plumber is willing to install fixtures sourced from a new supplier, you will need another plumber to bid installation. If your preferred plumber is willing to do it I would recommend having them order the parts to make sure they get everything needed for the job. You should expect to pay a small markup for that service.

I've worked retail. Not for commission but of course we all have sales goals. I made the same mistake your salesgirl made: ONCE.

As a salesperson you *have* to learn how to weed out the looky-loos and invest in serious prospects. It sounds like it was possible that you and Hubby were giving off serious-prospects vibes: he's conscientious, you're attentive listeners, you have a genuine interest in the products being shown. But none of that makes you beholden to her. She'll kick herself for her wasted day and move on. Really.

A follow-up email thanking her for her time (without explaining why you're not going with her store; realistically you'd be expected to be shopping around on such a large purchase), great reviews on various social media and websites, and that's it.

You're relationship with your very good, very trustworthy plumber is priceless.

Do share these comments with your husband, especially the ones from folks who have done sales.