Why are you doing a mud pan at all?

Because my shower is too large/off center for the schulter shower pan.

I called schulter and asked them the best way to integrate a traditional mortar bed/liner/drain with Kerdi board walls. They said no way. The builder is telling me that it would work just like regular cement board ties in.

Ugh. I'm so confused and upset. I told the builder not to do/order anything yet and I think I ticked him off. But it's my shower. I'm not going to spend thousands only to have a leak and have to rip everything out again.

It is looking like I will be putting in a Kerdi drain myself.

You need a completely different contractor. Fire him now. Just because a hack has been doing it wrong for 25 years doesn’t make it right.

7K is about average. Totally reasonable. Do a HELOC and hire someone who knows what they are doing. Your guy doesn’t.

Sophie the problem is no one around here knows anything about Kerdi. I am okay tackling it myself. We are in year 5 of a entire house remodel/addition and we did most of it ourselves. Honestly I do better work than anyone I've hired. I am very picky and put the time in to do it right.

Husband and I have talked it over and we agreed that the contractor will not be continuing. When questionesd he just argues that he is 3 times my age. This has happened numerous times throughout the build when I voice a concern. It's my house and my money, but somehow my opinion doesn't matter.

Ladygibbs,

Glad you are firing the contractor. How big is your shower? Do you want a tiled floor or are you okay with a shower pan? There is more than one way to create a floor for a shower. Post more details and some of the pros may be able to offer you guidance on a diy approach if that is what you are going to do.

You can use a Kerdi Pan with a larger than standard shower. Look on their YouTube site. You use mud pack to augment, and then cover that with Kerdi. The walls are handled standard. If you go slow, don't assume any details are "standard", watch the videos, and call the company when you have a question, you CAN do this!

Homepro, I thought about/got pricing for a shower pan. But about a week ago I finally made up my mind about getting a tile floor. Tile is already on it's way...

The Cook's Kitchen, I did see that. My drain is not quite centered. I just assumed it would be easier to do at all mud pack. Do you think using the the pan and cutting/packing around it would be better?

The shower is 72" x 42" with a 12" deep bench. So I need a 60" x 42" pan. Drain can be centered on the length only. It is about 2" off the width center because of a joist.

Use the 60”x60” pan. Cut to fit. Mud pack and cover, Kerdi band. Easier for an amateur to get the slope right with a pan that already has it.

I appreciate the help guys! I'm not a complete building noob, but this is definitely the first time working with waterproof stuff. I'm nervous. We have a tub surround to Kerdi and tile as well. So I have started on that with the hopes of getting some practice where perfection isn't as important.

They don't have a 60x60. I see a 48 x 72 or a 60 x 32. The 60x32 might work out perfect. The 32" side would give me wiggle room go over my off centered drain. Then I can pack the remaining 10". It looks pretty easy!

The KK183PVCE 72"x72" kit will have everything you need. It's usually a bit of a savings over buying the parts separately and then having leftovers.

A very nice kit. The problem is I have already purchased the screws, curb, membrane, corners, and pipe flanges. lol. I only need the tray.

The 72 x 72 tray is twice the price of the 60 x 32. Would it be worth the cost to get the bigger one and cut it down, rather than just dry pack the smaller one? I would think cutting so much off the width only would mess up the slope.

I think I would actually prefer to do the 10" of mortar bed to expand the smaller tray.

The builders finished up what they were framing/plumbing today and now it's my turn.

Bathtub. Faucets were put on just to do a leak test. They will come back off. As you can see I have one piece up. lol.

Shower. They did this weird 1" lip in the top back of the bench with the concrete board. Should I a) stack two pieces of Kerdi board on top to raise the seat so it's flush with the lip/wall board. Or b) cut it off somehow. (Sawzall?)

Not really seeing enough detail on the shower to be able to comment.

Get rid of the bench and use the Kerdi bench. It will be hard to waterproof what you have. Also as a DIY, i would advice to use one system consistently. As Sophie mentioned, get the larger Kerdi pan and cut it down. I am not seeing the location of the drain in your picture.

USG custom shower base up to 8'x8'. Triple the density of kerdi. 70lbs vs 25lbs. order your size, provide your drain location and it arrives in 5 days. Wall board also triple, no washers or patches needed and it doesn't have a paper face like Kerdi. Washers are your sign of a weak board. Membrane is thinner with a .08 perm. rating. Kerdi doesn't even come close. Better drain & grates and it all cost's less than Kerdi. If you have the option at this stage. Return the Kerdi. Not that it doesn't work I've successfully installed many but there is much better for less $$. You have already made a good decision by getting rid of that contractor.

http://www.durockshowersystem.com/en.html

http://www.durockshowersystem.com/en/products/foam-tile-backerboard.html

Why is the tub supported by osb, sitting on wood blocks and not a bed o\f mortar?

The cement board is just for stability. The kerdi board will go over it and be waterproofed along with the walls and floor.

The tub came with the osb attached and is installed as per the included instructions on its feet. The builder said he had never seen a non mortar bed tub. It seems a little unsturdy TBH. Might have to call the manufacturer to see what they recommend.

Witches brew of conflicting construction already.

"Might have to call the manufacturer to see what they recommend."

Yes, that definitely doesn't seem correct. Are you 100% certain that the osb was not shipping/crating material?

7k for a properly built and properly tiled shower of that size with bench niche should land around $60-80 per finished sq ft. 7K scary cheap

In regards to orange foam and membranes in A bonded drain thinbed shower, the Preslope is the main mudbed w/waterproofing on top.

you are confused and not at the right place to get up to speed. If you like orange call the MFG and take A 2 day seminar.

and in regards to CTEC comments if you cannot float a mud wall and decide to use a foam board the USG board and kerdi not even comparable in quality . I prefer mud and lath but would never again purchase kerdi products orher than the drain. its absolute JUNk but it takes years and years and dozens of shower builds to realize its just a cheap well marketed product

Here are some of the tub instructions I found on their website. I seem to have misplaced my printed copy. The tub comes with an attached OSB wood panel and then wooden feet. The wooden feet are shimmed until level OR you can use mortar around the feet. It does say that is mortar is recommended. Ugh! Should I will try to add some plastic and pack mortar underneath for more stability?

ETA: the wood block showing on the left front side of the tub is just a scrap piece that is sitting there. It's not touching/supporting the tub.

Lets just say the builders had no consistency and didn't like to follow proper directions or stay on budget. They are gone and it's my problem now. Please help me fix this as best as I can without starting from scratch.

The shower is fine. It's only framed in, kerdi board can go over cement board as per their website. Everything will be properly Kerdied. I'm not interested in switching to a new brand at this point unfortunately. Everything is already purchased and opened. I've seen lots of good reviews with Kerdi and I am okay with it.

Paying someone to do the shower/tub is not an option even if $7k is cheaper. Renovation has been a nightmare and we are already more than 50% over budget. I am confident I can do the Kerdi.

I was only confused on how to tie Kerdi in if they did a traditional mortar bed. Since I am now in charge, I will be doing everything Kerdi including the tray and drain. It's a pretty straight forward installation.

I'm so glad I asked you guys! I feel much more confident I will have a leak free shower with me doing it the way I want, rather than what the builder says has "always worked before."

Thank you so much!

Ladygibb,

Following "thatsmuchbetter" advice, reach out to Kerdi and take a quick two day seminar on how to do this. You will be able to ask situational questions and get some good advice on your installation.

Good luck!

Thank you for the details!!

1.) It is set up for the 1/2" kerdi board. :)

2.)The bench is properly sloped now. I should be able to attach Kerdi or Kerdi board right over it.

3.) Thanks! I will add studs, and I think horizontal studs for extra measure at each horizontal seam of the kerdi boards.

4.) We have a problem with the tub/flange for the two side walls. There is too much space between the tub and walls on each side (not flush with the tb). So if we nail up the flanges then they will barely reach the tub. We could have shimmed out the entire wall but then the tile won't be flush with the drywall install anymore. If we don't use the flanges. Kerdi board instructions say to run it down 1/4" away from the top of the tub and then fill with kerdi fix and then kerdi band. Will that be good enough or should we figure out a way to make the flanges work? The flanges can be installed on the outside of the kerdi board instead of the studs, but then the bottom will stick out and be visible on the bottom of the tile. Still debating best way to fix this.

Another question. I know you Kerdi board the walls and then put the shower tray in. But what about the tile? I'm worried to walk all over / use a ladder on the shower tray for installing the wall tile. Should I do the kerdi walls, kerdi floor, then tile the floor before the walls? I don't want to dent up the tray.

First of all great job Mongo taking the time for such a detailed response.

#4 Not sure which way to go with the tub as it should have gone on a crib. I would build the walls out and select a tile/stone profile to hide the edge. The windows will also need addressing with added wall thickness.

Lay a sheet of plywood over the shower tray if you feel the need for added protection especially with a ladder. Use care when placing any sharp objects on the membrane.

I sympathize with the arguments the OP had with her contractor. I had a major renovation done about a year ago that involved a couple of bathrooms and eventually a new shower. My contractor was great, reasonable price , there every day doing quality work and he installed two new new bathrooms with cast iron tubs, Hydroban on the walls and Nobleseal TS on the bathroom floor before tiling. I decided to get a shower installed upstairs and asked him to quote. The tile guy was ok doing Hydroban in the shower, but he and the plumbers also insisted on a copper pan.....this is Massachusetts.....becasue they knew how to attach to it and do a mortar bed in one and didn;t trust just the Hydroban and had never installed a plastic liner. I could have gone with another contractor for the shower, but for convenience, speed etc I got the copper pan and mud job and the walls, floor and curb joints were all taped and covered with thinset and then coated with Hydroban.

Tile and grout the walls (and ceiling if you're doing it), except for the bottom row (or couple of rows if the tile is not large format). After that's done, install the tray (or mud bed and kerdi liner), tile the floor and then finish tiling the wall.

Yes I guess I'm trying to decide if I should tile the walls before putting in the tray or if I should put in the tray and just cover with plywood. I guess either will work?

On the Kerdi board video it shows them putting the Kerdi board up against the top of the flange of the tub I wonder if i could shim out just behind the flange and then but the Kerdi board to the top. Fill flange with kerdi fix then go over with band?

https://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/faq/kerdiboard-connect-to-bathtub

"Use the 60”x60” pan. Cut to fit. Mud pack and cover, Kerdi band. Easier for an amateur to get the slope right with a pan that already has it."

The Sophinator strikes accurately. Again.

I've done this, but I can't find the link.

"Another question. I know you Kerdi board the walls and then put the
shower tray in. But what about the tile? I'm worried to walk all over /
use a ladder on the shower tray for installing the wall tile. Should I
do the kerdi walls, kerdi floor, then tile the floor before the walls? I
don't want to dent up the tray."

I've had a few large showers where I've done the ceiling and wall tile (with the exception of the bottom row or two of wall tile) first. All that work was done on the flat plywood subfloor.

Once the high work was done, then the shower mud slope or foam tray was installed and membraned, the wall/floor joint was sealed with Kerdi Band and the bottom course(s) of wall tile and the floor tile was set.

I only have one set of shower pics and those were for a magazine shoot years ago, but it does show those steps. It was a Kerdi shower, but with a mud slope. Scroll through the thread, the floor photos will be towards the end.

This will be DIY tiling, right? If so, that might be the way to go. You'll be on and off the pan for several days while tiling, so working off the subfloor might be more relaxing.

Thanks MongoCT! I think I would be more comfortable doing most of the tile while standing on the plywood floor so I don't tear up the shower tray. I will probably be a slow tiler.

I'm using 3x6 subway tile. So I should leave off the bottom 3 rows or so? How high above the pan should the finished tile start, 1/4" + floor tile thickness?

One more question which I am super confused about. (Getting conflicting info online) I currently have paper faced insulation up in the bathroom including around the shower and tub. Do I need to cut slits in it to prevent a double moisture barrier with the Kerdi, or is it fine as is?

At this stage you have selected a waterproofing system. You should be directing your questions to the manufacturer of that system. NOT collecting random opinions on line.

what a debacle

I will gladly call Schluter and ask these things but they are closed for the weekend and we will be working on it.

Other questions can wait but I really need to know if the faced insulation is okay as is before I put up the board.

no faced insulation in conjunction with a foam waterproof vapourproof board

you are floundering and need real help

You want depending on wall cavity framing / climate zone usually A min R-13 closed cell spray foam and you want that foam scooped & recessed a good inch or so so theres airflow between the foam board and the spray foam. you can also PROPERLY use R-13 foam board or Rock wool bats IMAO the 3 best ways to go.

None of which smart if you dont install everything PROPERLY and have your wall & cavity done right on the inside and outside of home. Who knows what kind of buildup you have outside.

I know this is a mess, no need to point it out and tell me to get help. I'm here because I am nearly 100% over budget with a contractor that did nothing properly. Now I'm just trying to do damage control. I simply can not afford to hire another builder, and I feel much better doing it myself.

I appreciate the helpful comments. I am feeling much better today. I figured no faced insulation. I managed to shim out the tub walls and got the flanges installed and properly caulked. Tub Kerdi board is nearly up.

I am meeting with a Schluter representative today.

Outside we have the Zip system, then rigid foam exterior insulation, and vinyl siding.