I've always heard Teas require full sun, whereas some Noisettes are known for shade tolerance (e.g. MAC, Gloire de Dijon)...However I'm not speaking from personal experience, just what I've read here and on HMF while I've been planning my plantings...most of my Teas and Noisettes are too young to make any judgments yet. I look forward to seeing what those with more experience have to say.

I had Crepescule in partial shade and it did ok. I now have it in full sun, and it's blooming a lot more. But it's a Tea-Noisette, so I'm not sure that helps, LOL. I think both do ok in partial shade.

I have never found Teas to be particularly shade-tolerant. (But then, I've never even tried to grow Noisettes in shade!)

I DO find, however, that where I am located (coastal Southern California) roses really don't need all-day sun to flourish. Half-days seem to be fine -- with a preference for morning sun and afternoon shade. Because when we get real hot spells (like now ... it's supposed to be 90 for Thanksgiving Day) many roses here get to feeling a bit stressed in all-day sun.

(But then -- that's HERE. YMMV, depending upon your conditions.)

I had Blush Noisette and Duchesse de Brabant next to each other in a spot that became increasingly shady in the fall. Blush Noisette stopped blooming and developed mealy bugs while the Duchesse is still putting out buds continually. I've since cut down BN and moved it to a sunny spot. I hope it will be happier there.

I've only heard of Hybrid Musks being shade tolerant. Even here though, (not California), all day sun has over toasted some roses including Teas. Not the noisettes, though.

My experience echoes Jeri's: in my climate--sunny southern exposure, long hot dry summers--all roses like some shade. Also they like, all of them, the protection of buildings or large plants nearby, for protection from wind and for the cooling effect of evaporation, the biological activity.

Thanks, all. Walter Branchi wrote that Teas "don't disdain some afternoon shade", if memory serves me,which basically seems to agree with what all of you are saying. My problem is this area that only gets afternoon sun; a very difficult situation. Maybe I should try starting a thread on what roses seem to tolerate only afternoon sun,lol...

I agree about both appreciating more protection from blistering sun and heat. In my condtions, both previous and current, both showed much greater mildew addiction as the shade levels increased. I think you'll find the more shade tolerant types will tend to be the lighter colored flowers. Not simply for bloom longevity, but the plants in general. Most shade lovers do tend to have lighter colored flowers. Light has to reflect off the petals to attract pollinators. Darker colored flowers wouldn't reflect as much light, and not attract as many pollinators. It seems to me the genes follow that "rule". Of course there may be exceptions, but my observation has been that tends to be the way it works.

IIRC the Rosa albas, pale colored, are shade tolerant. These roses have been intermixed with other species over a long period of time yet pale flowers may denote a higher percentage of alba "blood" and thus a higher shade tolerance.

Cath

I'm not sure if it's possible to divorce the notion of shade tolerance from the issue of rainfall/humidity/droughtiness. All other things being equal (which isn't likely in the real world), I would expect a plant in a dry environment with little rainfall (or long stretches of no rain) to appreciate shade more than a plant that gets more moisture from the air and from regular rains.

There can also be a question of the quantity, color and quality of light received by plants. We talk most about UV radiation because it can cause damage to human eyes and skin, but I don't know if too much ultra-violet light is as harmful to plants as, say, too much exposure to light elsewhere on the spectrum, but the closer one is to the equator, the more UV light there is.

Another factor is that trees and other things that give shade can protect plants from wind and possibly mitigate wide temperature fluctuations.

As for distinguishing the Teas from the Noisettes, their ancestry is often so intermingled, that the decision to class a rose one way or another is often arbitrary. In my dappled shade conditions, I'd say all of my roses are shade-tolerant, but I suspect that what you really want to know is which roses will bloom best with some shade? My conditions are not yours, but FWIW, my best bloomers so far are "Smith's Parish", "Emmie Gray", "Natchitoches Noisette" and 'Mutabilis'.

Virginia

The tea Archiduc Joseph is much, much, better in shade, in my Mediterranean garden.

Daisy