Contractor said these tiles job are within the industrial standard.
zoe213
6 years ago
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zoe213
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
Help - poor grout job by contractor? And what next?
Comments (16)How does this happen. Grouting is not rocket science. Well, if they didn't follow instructions for the grout it could mean soft grout but this is just a bad cleanup and grout job regardless of whether the grout was mixed properly or not. Even if it wasn't mixed properly, if the guy had any sense of pride he would've done a way better cleanup job. But I guess it just goes to show his personal standards. The thing with "performance" grout these days is that they are no where like the good old Portland cement grout back in the day, which cured rock hard and wasn't as finicky when it came to mixing. These days these grouts have all kinds of additives, colours, and other technology which could all be affected by mixing ratios and times. If the tiler isn't looking at the instructions and mixing the grout the same as the old school cement grout it can lead to issues like pinholes and crumbling. They really don't make things like they used to, nor do trades people have the same attention to detail and pride in their work. I know there are still people who are really good at what they do and have pride in their work, but those are rare these days....See MoreWhat our new contractor said (my jaw is dropping)
Comments (17)A couple of things... "Grout" is probably deck mud. Could be regional, could be poor word choice on the part of your new contractor. "Deck mud" is a lean portland cement mixture, generally 5 parts sand to 1 part portland cement. Mixed with just enough water so it sticks together like beach sand used to build a sand castle. It's not concrete, it's not mortar, it's not grout, it's deck mud, or dry pack. Saving the "pan" for re-use? Nope. Have them provide you with a new membrane. Take a good look at the cross section of the shower that terricks posted. If the membrane is flat on the floor but still water-tight, all you're going to get is a slow drying shower floor. The mud bed under the tile may saturate. The grout may stay wet for extended periods and mildew. You might see wet grout at the bottom courses of wall tile due to water wicking up the walls a bit. But the curb? The curb structure should still be as dry as a bone. There's either a leak in the membrane; in the membrane itself, at the clamping drain, in a corner, or the membrane is not properly detailed despite being flat on the floor. Despite the membrane being flat on the floor, the curb should not be wet and blowing apart due to swelling. So there is no way on earth they can reuse the "pan" or membrane. Also look at Terrick's graphic, where the membrane turns up the shower walls. The membrane should run 8" to 10" up the shower walls. You can see that the membrane goes against the wall studs. The poly or felt runs down the wall and laps over the membrane, The cement board or tile backer board then goes on the wall, but does not get screwed or nailed where the membrane is. Remember, no fasteners through the membrane. The only places where the membrane gets fastened is at the top edge where it runs up the walls to secure it to the wall studs. On the outside face of the curb. And it also gets clamped at the drain. So how in the world are they going to remove the membrane without removing the bottom rows of wall tile and cutting away the bottom section of tile backer board? "He will construct a new curb is damaged"? The curb is most definitely damaged. The wood most likely expanded due to moisture absorption, right? So that wood will not be used either. What Bill needs to do is: 1) demo the curb to the membrane. 2) Demo the shower floor, remove tile and deck mud to expose the membrane. 3) remove the bottom few rows of wall tile up about 10" to 12" above the height of the shower drain. 4) Cut the tile backer board horizontally a couple of inches below the bottom of the remaining course of wall tile. Careful when cutting, as you don't want to cut into the felt or poly (6-mil thick polyethylene plastic sheeting or #15 tar paper). 5) Fold up the poly or felt and tape it to the tile higher up on the wall. 6) Undo the clamping drain and remove the membrane. Toss it, it's no good. 7) Make any repairs to the exposed subfloor. Then rebuild it properly. The guy doesn't want you there? doesn't even want to see you? Right. He's really earned the right to work unsupervised, hasn't he. To let him work unsupervised is not a wise move. I think letting him do the work is not wise. He's not trustworthy. But that's my opinion. But my other opinion is that either you are there or your new contractor is there. He's already proven to be untrustworthy and to not do proper work. Remember, the core issue is not just a flat membrane. Water somehow got under the membrane to saturate the curb. I'd want to see the membrane detailing around the curb. The folds at the inside corners, see if there are any nails or screws in the top or inside face of the curb. The thing is that if he didn't detail the folds or if he put fasteners through the membrane the first time, he's going to do it again. He'll just do it with a sloped membrane instead of a flat membrane. I will raise a warning flag about your new contractor. So okay, we know the membrane wasn't sloped. But why did the curb swell and expand? How did water get under the membrane and into the structure of the curb? I'm not sure if your new guy knows how the curb failed, or if he knows how to repair a shower, or how to build one. I'd want eyes on the project when the demo is carried out. I'd want to see the membrane with the tile and mud off of it. I'd want to see if he just nailed cement board to the faces of the curb, nailing right through the membrane. I'd want to see if he nailed through the bottom edge of the backer board on the walls, nailing through the membrane, creating little holes. Hey, maybe your #1 guy did a great job (with the exception of not sloping the membrane) and it was an errant something or other that accidentally poked a hole in the membrane. Or maybe he's ignorant and apathetic when it comes to building a proper shower. My vote is that your #1 contractor is #2....See MoreDip in new tile floor -what is acceptable / within Industry standards?
Comments (2)Refer to your contract and the wording in it. The detailed scope should speak to the standards/methods of installation. Homeowners reading along???? You can always request your'e tile installation meets ANSI, TCNA, NTCA etc. specifictaions. When hiring and screening a tile installer ask about these standards and get the scope of the project in detailed writing. Frank, If the installer never brought the tile material itself into question and explained the issue in advance (i.e cupped/bowed/pillowed tile or MFG specs for maximum stagger) nor did he or she speak to the substrate specs being an issue for the material id then say you have an argument. get them to replace all the tiles you can, but to be certain there are some very cheap budget 12x24 tiles out there that simply will not install lippage free regardless the installers skill. so many things need to be looked at and agreed upon in writing and IN ADVANCE. not that this is you Frank, but we live in an age where people want it done now, cheaply, and perfectly so they keep shopping .....many of these type people in their efforts to find the dream they overlook all these little details and then end up with a lesser version of what they shopped for. so many things need to be looked at and agreed upon in writing and IN ADVANCE....See More"Industry Standard" when inspecting paint?
Comments (11)Lisa - Thanks for the reply.. We are getting a little nervous.. Builder says he will stop by to look but I really just don't know.. Part of me feels he is going to try and put this all off until their "followup" sessions.. We had them put into the contract that they will come out 2 times (withing 1 year) after delivery to fix any issues from settling.. And if that happens I have a feeling we will never see them again.. But after going through the house I almost feel that there is just so much stuff that they will basically be repainting the house.. I mean you can see in the pictures where there are straight lines of blue tape that is all nail pops from the same stud.. Basically every room looks the same with the blue tape.. I really don't think we were being too critical either.. We let a lot of stuff go.. But if the paint was cracked or there was a large nick/dent from someone or something hitting into it we marked it up.. As well as the other items I mentioned like missing paint or different color paint globs.. There were a few things that we marked up that may come off with a good scrubbing, but I wasn't about to scrub down all the walls.. I guess we will see.. I just didn't know if I was in the "right" as far as what the standard is for touchups prior to taking possession of the house.. Again, I know I have it in the contract to come back and touch up any settling issues, but I can't see them coming back when there is this much to touch up.. I don't know much about the costs for painting, but I would say that painting the house is probably a 10k job.. (based off figures on local contractor website).. If they did touchup everything they would have to hit relatively every wall with paint.. And not just a small section.. So I am thinking it will be costly to repair everything and worth it for them to not return.....See Morezoe213
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