Perhaps to defend yourself in a street attack? Mixed martial arts or Shotokan karate?

Elizabeth, yes, as in an attack for someone that may have need to defend themselves. After all, sometimes its difficult to keep DH in check! Just kidding, of course. ;)

Thanks, Elmer. A friend just told me that it might be possible to take private self defense sessions beyond what is offered to a group. Going to check into that.

Btw, its not for me! :)

Whoever it's for, seeking that out as a desired capability or end result is a mistake, in my opinion.

Elmer, do you think it would be beneficial for a person who works in a prison? I'm open to ideas for something in the very near future. I thought a gift of self defense classes would be good but I'm willing to rethink the idea.

Don't people who work in prisons get training in whatever the authorized methods of force and self-protection are? If someone working in a prison feels unsafe by whatever standards are provided and trained for, they should get a different job, don't you think?

The training is not what one would hope for, that's for sure. Last week, in a neighboring county, 2 officers were killed, 2 remain in critical condition and probably wont live, 6 others were injured. It happened during an attempted escape. Someone close to me is a correctional officer there.

Back in the spring an officer was killed in another facility nearby. She went to school with one of my kids.

The NC governor claims changes are coming. You would have thought changes would have come after the first incident. Prisons are so understaffed.

There exists judo and karate training for self defense. Mind and attitude training is included. The one school I am aware of teaches you to keep quiet about your ability to avoid challenges and to maintain a surprise element. He teaches avoidance of trouble as your first line of defense. Both Judo and Karate have potential lethal blows in their catalog, but this instructor concentrates on temporary disabling hits, the goal being to stop the attacker long enough for you to get away. High flexibility is part of the training.

What a tragedy,

Jail jobs are terribly dangerous. The problems you describe sound like reason enough to quit. What's learned in a recreational martial arts studio won't begin to provide safety or protection from desperate or angry prisoners.

Elmer, I'm in complete agreement but that's not my decision to make.

Thanks, Jem. I had in mind something that didn't take years of training. Like advanced self defense, if that exists. Tomorrow I'm going to check into it a little more.

I worked as a psychiatric nurse in a county jail psych area for some years and yes, there are courses in defense, but with the focus on de escalating so that a physical altercation is avoided.

I would agree that in prisons one is unlikely to be able to learn enough in a short term martial arts course that would be of much value in an escape attempt where the stakes are high that the escapee succeeds.

Maybe look into Krav Maga.

I've taken private lessons in the past in several martial arts. I thought Shorin-ryu addressed my needs the best. I specifically asked for "situation" training & gave details to the instructor/Sensei of how I might be attacked, then what would I do?

People in jail who would attack a jailer are incredibly violent all the time. These are not people for whom a physical altercation is an aberration. These are people for whom this kind of behavior is a way of life. How could you possibly imagine that a non-violent person could learn how to cope with that kind of individual through martial arts training? These people have a lifetime of practice and you spent a few hours in the same dojo as the neighbor's ten year old?

Rita....the type of training she might receive is ie: Your hair is grabbed through the bars, she's being taunted. How to release the hand so you can draw your gun or club. (When you know how to react & it's a practiced reaction, it lessens the fear). Unless she's drugged, she has a chance.

That would be practical training.

I believe learning ANY craft or skill is never a waste of time. We should never stop learning. And never discourage a person from "learning".......anything, at any level.

In my case, I wanted to go "out" fighting, standing up to my attacker.....it's a choice.

That's a great example of a useful thing to learn, Nicole. I was not thinking there would be bars between the attacker and the attacked- a lack of imagination on my part.

I suppose I was speaking with my psychological make-up in mind. If someone came at me I cannot imagine being able to react forcefully. I am very uncomfortable with physical contact with strangers. Violence is so beyond anything I know on a personal level that I imagine I would be paralyzed with fear- training or no. I cannot play basketball because I feel people are too much in my space and aggressive on the court.

Having said all that, had you asked me how I would respond to being mugged in the past, I would have told you that I would hand over my wallet without incident. When I was put to the test, that is not how it went down. I was not wearing my glasses, did not see the guy had a gun and argued with him- told him he could have the cash but I needed the CC because I was traveling (I know, insane of me). In the end I forked over the whole wallet, but you never know how you will react until you're tested.

I'm a large guy. Think of a football player, as I was in high school. More in younger years than now, my wanderings took me to many rough areas here and abroad. In general, it seems that thankfully evil doers and mischief makers seem to prefer to not hassle me. If they did, again more then than now, they'd have found that this large guy might have tried to throw one punch and then could run very fast for his size.

You want to go out fighting, Nicole? I don't want fight nor to go out at all. I avoid dangerous situations to the best of my ability and when I find myself approaching something I don't like, I turn around and leave. I was fortunate to never have to consider dangerous jobs but even if I found myself in a situation where something like that was only alternative I had, I'd move somewhere or get more schooling or training so that I could do something less obviously dangerous. Yikes, life is short enough, why take a path that could make it even shorter.

Elmer....What I meant was......I'm not giving in next time to threats. I'd rather physically fight if given the chance.

Ie: When I was 14, @ school, I was taunted by a Chicano girl gang, thrown to the ground. Took karate lessons and the next time.....they were going to throw me down a flight of stairs at school...didn't happen.

I fended off an attack when I was trail running....a steep narrow trail....I threw him off the trail.....

The best way to deal with dangerous encounters is take reasonable steps to avoid them. Solo women joggers getting accosted is almost a cliche, it happens so often. Run in daylight, in visible and well traveled places, and save the remote routes for when you can do them with one or more others along with you. You know that.

Rita....the type of training she might receive is ie: Your hair is grabbed through the bars, she's being taunted

I received some of that training but far more valuable was the de-escalation type training exercises. I agree in the middle of an attempted escape de escalation might not work, but in many, actual situations it did work for me.

I also as Elmer pointed out avoided dangerous situations. Most of the time I had around 120 patients.

The general population were far different than the high risk individually housed prisoners. When I went to deal with those high risk prisoners (giving medication, etc.) I would get backup via the psyche techs who were generally strong young men. I remember getting a group of four techs together one time I needed to give a violent HIV positive large male prisoner medication via injection.

Elmer......25 years ago.....no one had ever heard of joggers being molested. I didn't even report the incident. The attitude was, 1) Jogging shorts are awfully short 2) Why wasn't your husband with you? 3) Why don't U jog with a dog?

Now I'm an old hag wearing a baseball cap and no makeup.....lol

Well I think every woman should know self-defense. Gracie brothers Brazilian Jiu-Jtsu is very good.

Nicole - You are not an old hag. You are a vibrant, talented woman.

Ok, I might as well tell what's going on. At least it's buried down in a thread that most people have no interest in.

You might remember that my daughter got out of the Army in April, joined the National Guard and was lucky enough to get a temp full-time job with the NG to help her transition. So then she got a job at the prison. Naturally I wasn't happy about it and it worries me a great deal.

She started in May, a week after the female officer in another nearby prison was killed by an inmate. That officer grew up in our neighborhood. It hit really close to home. And now this.

The real worry has come from an incident that happened last month. My daughter was working in the minimum custody building where the inmates are kept that are getting ready to be released or on the work release program. I thought that sounded better than working on the high security side, but it's not.

She had taken cigarettes away from several different inmates. The inmates have a gripe box where they can leave anonymous complaints. It's sometimes used as a form of harassment against the officers. Every complaint has to be investigated. Apparently they complained that she had stolen their personal property and they weren't happy about it. So, for her safety she was moved to the high security building. For the past month she has been working in the master control room. She's all safe and sound, behind walls and locks, pushing buttons and watching monitors, but she's not happy there. From what she says the other officers spend 12 hours a day arguing politics and complaining about any and every thing that they can. She says it's exhausting.

The investigation has been completed and several inmates have been temporarily removed from work release but they remain in the same building. I don't think they're very pleased about losing work privileges. And my daughter is pushing to get back over to the minimum custody building. She claims that the gripe box and getting revenge back on the officers is a game that the inmates play, knowing that it might get them transferred someplace else and that particular officer may not come back. It just worries me a great deal. The female officer that was killed earlier in the year was targeted by an inmate that had a gripe with her.

So, I don't know if some kind of advanced self defense would help her or not. She's all of 4'11 and 115 lbs, but definitely no shrinking violet. Yes, she does talk about having to deescalate situations. I'm not sure if some self defense is usually a requirement for new employees or not but since she had just gotten out of the Army a lot of the application process was skipped. She didn't have to do any of the health screening (other than TB test) or physical fitness tests.

I asked her yesterday if it doesn't worry her and she shrugged and said things can happen anywhere. It was sort of the same conversations we've had concerning my worries when she was in the Army. I have to say that this is much more worrisome.

On a brighter note, she still plans on going back to school but not this year. There's a lot of things she needs to get done to her house and needs to make some money before she can commit to schooling. I really do hope it'll happen sooner rather than later.

I agree w/ your daughter, you can get killed crossing the street. But....if your in shape, agile and aware of your surroundings you might dodge and out maneuver that speeding car.....not get hit...or only get a scrape. Preparation helps to some extent, luck and a guardian angel helps too. :0)

I'm not sure I agree with equating the danger of crossing the street with the danger of working in a prison. An innocent of that size is never a match for an angry criminal wanting to make a physical attack, I don't care what training they've had

The window in a person's life when they're motivated and able to go to school doesn't stay open forever because of life's unexpected detours and changes in attitudes. She can always fix up her house and maybe when she's done with school she'll move somewhere else. If she needs money, can you help her, to push her along?

Good luck to both of you.

I agree about the window of opportunity. And its scary. Since she didnt start this fall, she will have to wait until next fall.

Nicole, i understood what you were saying. If one has some kind of training they may react faster or differently than if they had none.

My DH and I were in martial arts for 20 yrs. I have to say that your daughter, at less than 5' and 115 lbs., is not going to match up successfully against the average prisoner with at least minimal experience in streetfighting - even if she's a dedicated student of Krav Maga.

When your opponent has 12" and 100 lbs. on you including leg and arm reach, and knows how to fight dirty, the advantage is going to be all with him. That's what guns and batons are for, to even the odds. If you are outnumbered, even that might not help.

Of all the various martial arts, Krav Maga is the only serious one to take if you really want to defend yourself. They work their students harder than any of the American dojos that practice Japanese, Chinese, Korean or Brazilian.

American martial arts are sports. Their sparring is all TV-celebrity MMA.

Long gone are the days when one of my uncles was taking judo and every morning, the students practiced throwing each other - on the concrete sidewalks in Seattle!

True Israeli Krav Maga is focused on turning YOU into a weapon, as fast and effectively as possible. It's a serious martial system developed by and for combat training. The emphasis is on top physical conditioning and lethal techniques.

Jakkom, thanks for posting. You said all the things I didn't want to hear. lol

If she was listening to me and brings it up, i will mention that she may want to check out Krav Maga.

Thanks Hareball.