I think if you're buying compost instead of making it at home, a cover crop sounds better than it ordinarily does. With DIY compost, you're also dropping off bugs, bacteria, fungus, etc; if you're buying the bagged stuff, it may not be so lively. Putting down something alive is helpful to get your soil life cycle going.

I was going to get compost from a turkey farm and which is organic. It is sold at a local nursery supply and it's the most expensive of the 3 composts they sell.

Getting the life going in my soil you say will be better done with cover crops? I'm aware of the "soil food web" but don't remember all their recommendations.

Organic inputs don't matter so much as how it's been treated. It probably hasn't been sterilized if you're getting it from the farm, but if it's sealed up and dried out, it's likely mostly dead. If it has been sterilized, it's definitely dead.

Dead organic material is better than no organic material, but to really get the ground in good shape, you need living organisms in there growing and consuming and transforming and moving. If the soil is already pretty decent, just feeding it could be enough. If not, getting some growing plants in there could help with attracting and sheltering the organisms you need, as well as improving the soil structure directly as the roots grow, penetrate, die, and rot away.

"Just feeding it" with what, good alive compost? "Growing plants" I assume to be cover crops?

I need to listen to a podcast or two of this lady.

Soilfood Web

You make good arguments for cover crops; it's cheaper by far than the compost. Thank you for enlightening me.

Not to add confusion to the decision, but another option is to add other sources of organic matter. Autumn leaves, for example, are abundant, easily obtained, and aside from a little effort to gather... free. You could put them on top of the garden just as they are, or shred and leave on top, or shred them and turn them under. They do wonders for garden soil, and worms, fungi, etc... absolutely love them.

I'm with rgreen on this one. Adding materials adds. Cover crops have benefits but they grow using the nutrients already there. If available in your area, I'd grab bags of shredded leaves/grass clippings. Around here, there is a sweet spot in the fall where the leaves and grass mix is perfect for garden application.

Several times in the past few yeas I've bagged up leaves people pile up on the street and then added them to my compost pile. The leaves are the only browns I have in abundance so the pile never gets very big. I do add food scrapes to it. I also have access to composted horse manure from a riding stable but I've been advised not to use it; I forget why.

A couple of possible issues with horse manure off the top of my head. One is the weed seeds that may be present if the composting didn't destroy them. The other is herbicide contamination if certain herbicides were used on any hay they may have been fed. Again I'd recommend leaves for a garden. Preferably shredded with some grass clippings in there but beggars can't be choosers sometimes.

Horse manure can have problems, but it can also be a fantastic addition to soils and compost piles. The problem with some horse manures is in what they may have been fed. There is a relatively new class of herbicide which does not break down easily. If that herbicide was used on the feed products, then the herbicide in the manure can affect susceptible plants when you apply it to the garden, or to the compost. There are fairly simple tests you can perform at home which basically amounts to growing out some seedlings in it and seeing if those plants are affected.

The other potential problem with horse manure is salt. However, if the manure was composted out in the open where rain can leach out the salt, it's not usually a major problem.

I can't think of any other reason to avoid horse manure.

And adding leaves to compost piles is a very good practice, but as Lloyd described above, adding them straight to the garden is even more beneficial then composting them first. Compost is often exposed to leaching and volatilizing, and some nutrients are lost in the process. Adding leaves to soil directly feeds the worms and other soil life, and there's less exposure to air. Most everything stays right there in the soil. You can also combine this process with cover crops if you wish.

ETA: LOL... Lloyd posted while I was typing. Yep, I agree with what he said.

Leaves sound easy enough but I assume they should be shredded either with the lawn mower or a shredder I have sitting out back that I got from a garage sale. I've never tried it but I sure will.

If I decide to skip the compost, at least the expensive stuff you saved me a lot of money.

I did buy one bag of steer manure at Home Depot yesterday - $1.50. Years ago I read to spread that before the winter rains. I suppose it has drawbacks also and you'd advise against it.

Thanks to all of you for your wonderful information on this important topic.

IMO, leaves are the easiest and best overall. Shredded is nice but I'd not incur the expense to do so myself. The soil will break them down given appropriate conditions and time. I recommend them strongly. Having said that, I am not a gardener.

Weed seeds can still be an issue but cattle manure is a little different (less chance for seed viability) to horse manure due to the difference in digestion process. Salt will be a similar issue.

Thanks Lloyd for all of your ideas.

I pile lots of leaves over all my garden areas. I collect them from all the neighbors that bag them up and leave them on the street - the season will be starting in the next few months. I collect hundreds of bags each year to spread around my half acre lot. I prefer to grind them up, but that takes a lot of time. Last year I got so tired of grinding that I just piled the leaves on as they were. I probably put 8 to 10 inches of leaves over all garden beds through the fall and winter. Right now, at the end of the garden season, virtually all the leaves from last winter have rotted down or been turned under to bare soil. In the spring, I just push aside some of the leaf mulch, and the soil underneath is ready for planting, to start all over again.

Wonderful reminder about the value of leaves and that I shouldn't feel bad if I can't shred them.

What has a good soil test told you about those beds? How much organic matter is in the soil? What is the soils pH? What about the major nutrients, Phosphorus, Potash, Calcium, Magnesium? What about drainage, soil life, smell, etc.?

Perhaps these simple soil tests may be of some help.

1) Soil test for organic
material. From that soil sample put enough of the rest to make a 4 inch level in a clear 1-quart jar, with a tight fitting
lid. Fill that jar with water and replace the lid, tightly. Shake the jar
vigorously and then let it stand for 24 hours. Your soil will settle out
according to soil particle size and weight. For example, a good loam will have
about 1-3/4 inch (about 45%) of sand on the bottom. about 1 inch (about 25%) of
silt next, about 1 inch (25%) of clay above that, and about 1/4 inch (about 5%)
of organic matter on the top.

2) Drainage. Dig a hole 1-foot square and 1 foot deep and fill that
with water. After that water drains away refill the hole with more water and
time how long it takes that to drain away. Anything less than 2 hours and your
soil drains’ too quickly and needs more organic matter to slow that drainage
down. Anything over 6 hours and the soil drains too slowly and needs lots of
organic matter to speed it up.

3) Tilth. Take a handful
of your slightly damp soil and squeeze it tightly. When the pressure is
released the soil should hold together in that clump, but when poked with a
finger that clump should fall apart.

4) Smell. What does your
soil smell like? A pleasant, rich earthy odor? Putrid, offensive, repugnant
odor? The more organic matter in your soil the more active the soil bacteria
will be and the nicer your soil will smell, to a point. Too much organic matter
can be bad as well.

5) Life. How many
earthworms per shovel full were there? 5 or more indicates a pretty healthy soil. Fewer than 5,
according to the Natural Resources Conservation Service, indicates a soil that
is not healthy.

Good information to be reminded about, thank you.

posted on wrong thread.