Perhaps the RA had a different understanding of what "downsize" might mean...

After using and enjoying our remodeled kitchen for a year, now we just assume that when we do our retirement downsizing, we will have to remodel the kitchen of any house we find. We're spoiled. A standard builder kitchen will no longer suffice.

Just because you downsize doesn't mean you have to be closed off in a tiny kitchen. Across from our house are condo filled with older retirees that have downsized. They are sooooo cute!! They are all about 1200-1800 sq ft & they all have very open floor plans with very nice kitchens. It makes me want to move across the street at times!

Now 80-90% finished with our "beyond the studs" remodel, DH and I agree that while we wouldn't necesarily have a problem with changing out cabinets and floors, we aren't interested in ever moving walls and raising ceilings again. It took us 6 months just to get drywall back up on the walls. So if we ever move, and we're really unlikely to, we will probably look for a kitchen we can live with mostly as is.

That kitchen would not be good enough. I would move on.

nosoccermom, I understand your point. And I understand writersblock's comment as well. DH and I intended to sell and downsize when we retired or prior to. I think in our minds the downsizing would include an updated, nicer kitchen, only a little smaller that what we have now. Instead what we saw were vaguely updated kitchens, and they were all very small. Smaller house I understand now, means a kitchen in proportion.

For our needs, this just can't be, as we eat the vast majority of our meals in. We are homebodies, for lack of a better word. Though we need less space elsewhere, the kitchen is the heart of our home, thus, we decided to stay, renovate, and deal with a house that will be a bit more than we wish to care for in retirement - and it's not a big house by any standards. Very average.

Hm, it looks like I need to adjust my expectations what a kitchen in that kind of price range should look like.

Nearby houses, all above 1.1 mio. Ooops!

Wait, are you saying those photos above are kitchens inside houses that are in the $1 million price range? Noooooooo!

All above 1 mio. Yes, unfortunately. And looking at what actually sold, they are not that far off the mark, only by about 100K :(

Still, some of these listings, are you kidding me with those "new" cheapo appliances?

These sold for 1.2 mio, size between 1800 and 2300 sqft, not large lots.

DIY2Much2Do

After using and enjoying our remodeled kitchen for a year, now we just assume that when we do our retirement downsizing, we will have to remodel the kitchen of any house we find. We're spoiled. A standard builder kitchen will no longer suffice.

First, we don't really intend to move, but if we did, this is the conclusion we have come to, too. My partner said that we'd factor remodeling costs into the purchase and have the work done prior to occupancy. Now that we have our remodel done, we love having an efficient kitchen and we love our appliances. I have yet to find a kitchen in a house on Zillow (fun pastime) that would check most of the boxes. It's nice to know he's of the same mindset!

Though we had to create it ourselves, we have a small home (1300 sq ft) with a larger kitchen. To do this, we gave up extra bedrooms and downsized the living room and dining room to be adequate, but not roomy. Now, if we'd just get the kitchen finished....

Maybe your real estate agent doesn't cook? We've bought four houses and remodeled three kitchens (currently living in the fourth house which was literally brand new when we bought it a year ago, though I can tell you the kitchen has got functional problems). All three kitchens we remodeled were decades old and in very bad shape. We passed by houses where the kitchen was too new to justify ripping out but was dysfunctional. I'd rather buy really terrible so I can just gut it and get it right. I don't mind small kitchens. But I hate bad layouts and why oh why don't people put in drawers.

Hi Nosoccermom --

Based on photos, assuming these are older (vintage) homes in an established neighborhood, Med-H to HCOL area?

If so, then yes: you're corrupted by GW. In fact I'm pleasantly surprised by how updated some are!

[Micro vs real hood + need to swap in drawers aside, I’d happily take the Basket Kitchen.]

Urban PNW here, and knocking down walls and/or a sizeable addition are the way most older home owners with under 2500 sf get a more “typical for GW” layout. Maybe the ones with more than that, too – though seems like that’s about the sf when pantries, butler or otherwise, become pretty common!

I need to be very grateful that we live in an area were cost of living (and yes, income too) is far less. That blows my mind. We wanted to downsize to about 1800 sq ft. I can't imagine this.

This is what you'd find here in that price range...

sold for $910,000 6,000 sq ft., 5+ acres, and views that go on forever...

ETA: photo didn't post...

and this sold for $950,000, 5,231 sq ft, almost 10 acres, and again, views that go on forever

That kitchen in the OP is almost the exact same layout as ours, but more cosmetically pleasing than ours is. Good to get some outside affirmation of how dysfunctional (awful) it is :)

ldstarr I'm so happy for you! We thought about that too, but the smaller homes weren't that much less than the home we have now would have sold for, so it was just a preference for us to stay, given cost of moving and re-furnishing.

I will have to say... the kitchens you've posted are more updated than those I found here... but the houses here do have more sq. ft. as well as views for the price.

OMG, in my head I'm actually critiquing the kitchens I posted! I've become a GW kitchen snob ;-D

What's the scraped earth worth, though? My house on my lot is worth a little more than the lot itself. New houses built on lots my size (20') are taller and deeper to make them bigger, and three to four times the price.

So the houses might not be the bigger part of the equation in your examples (?) My Lot, buy the way, is under 800 sq feet.

The kitchen in the initial post would probably not be in a $1M house here, but it would be in an $750-800K house, easily. And in my immediate vicinity there is probably not an opportunity to make a kitchen like that larger.

palimpsest I think all these examples reflect different regions, and as mentioned, in my area not only are housing prices lower than other areas, so is income - it's all relative... that was only my point. Please understand, not having lived in areas that are more urban, I find it some things a bit shocking.

Scraped earth? It's worth the value the individual - and region, places upon it. Some love acreage, and yes, it has a value in many areas, whereas in other areas it's seen as something with little value, only a nuisance to be cared for in a busy lifestyle. There are so many reasons why some prefer 'land' and others do not.

Just the lot is about 600-800K. depending on size. The houses I posted have from 75-10K sqft lots.

But then this house (similar square footage/lot size) sold for 840K.

As far as income, yes, certainly high here. Median household income in this close-in DC suburb is about 210K (of course, taxes are correspondingly high).

Anyways, checking out what's going on on the market, puts my potential kitchen reno and GW suggestions in perspective.

... welcome to the club, nosoccermom! Yes, GW can greatly alter ideas about what is functional, dated, or 'on-trend'. - it's definitely affected me and my spouse. I still look at houses in our price range just to be sure we are doing the right thing; staying here, renovating.

Actually all I was asking nosoccermom was how much the empty lots cost. Those aren't million dollar structures, they are relatively modest structures on a pricey lot.

My house would not sell for a tenth of its local value, where I grew up. So you can't really judge the kitchens without placing the house itself context with other houses that occupy that niche, size-wise, age-wise, buyer demographic wise...deemphasizing what the real estate cost is purely in land value.

I love it when people post what area they are in when they show pictures of homes and discuss their cost. It provides a nice context for the discussion.

Yes it really does. I have a theory that you see a lot of time capsule baths and kitchens in certain types of houses in San Francisco for example because the housing costs are so high that renovating on top of it is often out of the question. (And additionally all the regulations in CA once you touch anything).

palimpset, I understand. Thank you for clarifying to someone (me) you weren't speaking to who thought you were and responded! My apologies for the misunderstanding!

Context for dmpsd: the photos I posted are in the Smoky Mountain area - where the recent fires were.

More context: Renovation costs have skyrocketed due to the massive rebuilding after the devastation of the fires. We are just learning this, and have to re-adjust our plans to fit our budget : - (

the kitchen in the original post looks tons better than the one in the house I am moving out of. I hope this is not indicative of my home potentially sitting on the market forever, or something.

Where I live (in the City of Seattle, 2 miles from downtown Seattle), a typical build-able lot, if you can find one, will be minimum $400,000. A standard lot is 5000sq ft. There is a lot that just became available 2 blocks from where I live for 375K. Very steep and difficult to build. Prob over 100K to 200K in lot prep alone. It is going to need massive amount of stabilization to prevent a slide.

Otherwise, it is a tear down of an existing home. Median home price in the city is about $700,000. These are SMALL homes with very modest interiors. $1,000,000 is a median house where you would live to raise a family. It is very EXPENSIVE here.

Most people cannot afford to live here. Real estate is always LOCATION first. Every thing else is secondary. People put a lot of value in how long they have to commute to get to work everyday.

Not only that, rich young people do not want to move to the far flung suburbs in my experience. We are having a real hard time staffing our suburban clinics. The docs that we hire live close in and commute to the outer suburbs. When they can afford to, they live in the city. However, the support staff want to be placed at the suburban work locations, close to their home....

There are enough people that want to live close to the city, the housing prices continue to go up in these area.

I see the same thing in my HCOLA. It's the worst when the kitchen has nice finishes or fancy appliances in a bad, no drawers layout--such a waste.

ETA: $1.6M home a few miles from me.

I downsized to a small, vintage home with retirement in mind. The tiny kitchen was barely functional, but I waited two years to remodel it. It's still tiny but now functional due to a few inches here, a few inches there, quality cabinetry and decent appliances. I'm glad I waited to remodel because I had a much better idea of what needed to happen.

The pictured kitchen has more counter space than mine. I cook daily and have figured out how to make it work without frustration. I got rid of a lot of dishes, cookware, serve ware, etc. and haven't missed them. If you love to bake, make homemade ravioli, regularly feed a large extended family, etc., this kitchen probably won't work for you. For me, though, it would work. The pluses I see are space for a kitchen table, loads of light and a door leading to the garden. Wonderful features!

The very best decision I made was choosing a wonderful neighborhood that makes me happy every day. It makes up for the limitations of my quirky little house. Good luck with your house hunt.

That first kitchen pic is misleading. It was dark --- on a bright day. The door leads to the driveway, and it's far from the dining or living room area. I'd be isolated in there.

I'm looking for smaller, walkable, garage, lots of light, and, I realize, a certain openness. i wouldn't mind a condo or town house but would go nuts if the place has no decent sound insulation and I follow my my neighbors' daily activities literally step by step.

Corrupted? I prefer to think of you as enlightened.

Small kitchens don't HAVE to be awful. Galleys can be great. But that kitchen is awful.

We moved from a Midwest 'ordinary' COLA to a slightly higher, but still Midwest-COLA.

We looked at buying a house but all the houses we looked at would be $50-200k (depending on the house) just to make the space work for us. And when we were done, it would still have a 'fixed' house and not a cohesively designed house.

Some houses had brand new kitchens (and were priced accordingly). I remember one that was done beautifully and even reasonably designed--but it was modern and we like traditional. I hated it. Others were just so poorly designed it didn't matter how new it was.

As a result, we're building again. We worked with a GW architect to do a conceptual plan and are now working with a local architect towards construction diagrams. I know what I want my kitchen to look like and feel like and how I want it to flow. I'm not compromising :-) much there.

Yes, my views are affected by GW kitchen porn--but I loved my last kitchen and I'm going to love my new one more!

This is exactly why we moved from a HCOL area to our LCOL area, 33 years ago!

If you're in DC and retiring, have you considered the Eastern Shore? There are some marvelous old houses there for a song, that are just crying to be loved and fixed up. A friend was going to do this but they have now decided to just move to Williamsburg to a patio home - lots of reasons, mainly health issues.

" a kitchen in what I consider a relatively expensive house (even for my
area). I was stunned by how small, dysfunctional, and closed off the
kitchen was."

Then it wasn't the house for you. So what? Move on. Not everyone cooks, let alone likes to cook, and to some people an ergonomic kitchen with multi-featured appliances would be a waste of space and money - they'd rather spend the money on other things in the house they're searching for.

Different strokes......I'm not sure why you're surprised by that. Cooking's your thing, so you put a lot of emphasis on a good kitchen. Someone else might put more emphasis on a workshop, library, or master bathroom.

Anglophilia....

"If you're in DC and retiring, have you considered the Eastern Shore? There are some marvelous old houses there for a song..."

Where on the Eastern Shore? Close to the ocean or the Bay? (But NOT Ocean City -- I really dislike OC MD! I really like Rehoboth Beach, though.)

A friend of mine had a horrible kitchen in their old house. They called it a kitchen closet. It was very tight for ONE person! The odd thing is- the rest of the house was nicely laid out and spacious. In fact, the master bath was about twice the size of the kitchen. This was in a big house on 11 acres of land.

"a kitchen closet."

Great phase!!

The RA answered, "you have a stove, a sink, a fridge, what more do you need?"

First, let's address the obvious: The RA wants to sell you a house. Of course he or she is going to try to make lemonade from the lemon that is that kitchen.

Perhaps the RA had a different understanding of what "downsize" might mean...

The size isn't the real problem -- I love to cook, and the kitchen I'm planning to build won't be a whole lot bigger than that kitchen, and I'm thrilled with my "small plans". The issue is that this kitchen is poorly arranged. No counterspace, the best prepping spot is the corner, no landing spaces.

Then it wasn't the house for you. So what? Move on. Not everyone
cooks, let alone likes to cook, and to some people an ergonomic kitchen
with multi-featured appliances would be a waste of space and money -
they'd rather spend the money on other things in the house they're
searching for.

True enough, but those people probably don't post on this board!

@TorontoVet.

Honestly, I think you misunderstood my comments. Obviously, I'm not asking you for advice about what house to buy --- why would I? I was just pondering aloud about what's needed in a kitchen (also according to GW discussions) and trying to relate this to other threads (incl. my questions about my own reno).

I was surprised that a 1.2 mio house would have such a small, closed off kitchen, or why anybody would by such low-end appliances to get the house ready to be sold. I'm not even considering dysfunctional here, as there area lots of kitchens that are big and open and dysfunctional. In my area, there aref trophy kitchens, regardless of how much cooking goes on.

Hi again Nosoccermom --

I have long-term ties to your area. So I hear a lot about housing prices from those who bought great homes in the 20-35K price range (yep, no extra 0s!) 40+ years ago and those buying and selling a lot more recently.

Like other areas where housing costs have gone up up up over the decades (or faster!) that 1M+ house wasn't built as a 1M house -- it was built as a home for a typical office worker's salary.

Note that salaries have not kept pace for most!

In my circle, the retiree current sellers are trying to maximize profits, so they aren't looking to stock their homes with high-end cabs/appliances etc or do a lot of reno work. So what you're seeing doesn't surprise me.

To give people some perspective: price for one of my childhood homes (early 70s): under $30K; 2016-7 price of homes on same street with same approx S/F and minor updating: $700K+

I'm sure many here have similar stories!

nosoccermom- This is a good point!! My thinking on kitchens completely changed the first time I cooked in one that was really well designed. Gardenweb reinforced many of he concepts in that space and made me think about new ways to organize things and make kitchens even more functional. So yes, I am probably ruined for any future house.

As for the real estate market, I am in NY on Long Island and we pay a lot of money and ridiculous taxes for tract houses that are 70 years old and in need of a gut reno. Sometimes when I see threads about the cost of building a house in the Midwest I really want to move and build my dream house for half the cost of our fixer upper, but our family is here and I just couldn’t imagine life without them.

bushel, my friends were looking in the Delmarva Peninsula area. They found lots and lots of great old houses for sale, most of them under $350,000- many closer to $200,000. Yes they needed some work, but it was mostly cosmetic. Yes, they actually did go and look at them - not just seeing them online.