I have both black lace and the lemony lace. Both from Rpoven Winners. They are planted about 3-4 away from each other. Full sun. Well drained neutral soil. Watered regularly. Zone 8b, Everett WA area. The lemony lace took off the first year (planted in the spring) and has never looked back. I’ll be pruning it hard this fall. Nether black lack is producing leaves but isn’t any taller than it was 2 years ago. It’s certainly not dead but sure not a fast, showy grower. On its third year, there is not enough to prune. My ninebarks grow everywhere, anywhere, ferociously. I love my copper and dark purple ninebark! I’ve been pruning the ninebark since the first year. I love the idea of the lacy black leaves on elderberry but it seems to be a very temperamental plant that looks good in the nursery.......

eshga, I think you could justifiably call Elder a small tree. If left unpruned Sambucus nigra grows a single trunk, or at least a small number of trunks and can reach 20 feet or so, easily as big as a Rowan. It's one of those in between sort of woody plants. Old Elder trees are common in the British countryside.

Mine is doing well, it died back last winter and this past winter, but both springs it came back nicely. I have mine in an area between the garage and the propane tank, so kinda protected. It's not real tall yet, but it will be in time. Now the wild elderberry....well, that's another story. They cannot be killed! LOL Linda

to Floral-uk: I really appreciate your help. I have found several sites - one is Home Guides, that states for the Black Lace: Cut off all shoots to ground on young Black Lace Elderberry in early spring and years after prune 1/3 of all shoots and remove all older stems. Before I started pruning the Black Lace it looked like the other 3 elderberries. This information is similar to the care of American Elderberry. I have a large stand of American elderberry and they have to be pruned back hard every spring. They are cut to 30" or can be cut to ground and still grow to 12' and bloom/bear. With the European elderberry, shown in pictures - they are still about 18" tall in three years. I only cut off dead shoots. They appear to be growing some this year, but the growth rate has been very slow and not as described in any article I have read. I have never found a complete article as to the care and pruning of Samyl or Samdal elderberry. Since I don't think pruning is the cause of the delayed growth, that would leave insects, diseases, or nutrient deficiency, ph etc. I have never seen insects, or indication of disease. What is your Ph? With what and how do you fertilize?? Also, do these ever get pruned, or do they grow into a permanent bush/tree? Can you send or direct to pic. of mature plant? I can't believe I am unable to find complete information on these.