There are many good brands in many different price brackets. It's hard to say "favorite".

All microwaves everywhere are mostly made by Sharp and Panasonic. I haven't heard that there's any quality difference between the two. If I remember right, there's one or maybe two other companies that actually make microwaves, but are a mere blip when it comes to market penetration and contracting for the other appliance makers. There can be slight quality differences, mostly in durability, by badge (appliance company brand) if they specify better wiring or hinges or whatever. For most purposes, the loss leader countertop Sharp or Panasonic from Costco is just as good as the fancy built in one from a snobby brand (also made by S or P). Use your own druthers for looks, styling, feel, controls, and price be your guide.

The general consensus here is that Miele dishwashers are the best, especially the ones that pop open at the end to let out steam. Lower tier models of Miele are also well liked. Bosch (and its sister companies that sell the same machine for more money but potentially nicer looks, Thermador and Gaggenau) is also well liked. Fewer people here have Asko, but some like them well.

The best, least problematic ovens you can buy are probably Gaggenau and Miele. They're also by far the most expensive. Wolf, also top tier, is very well engineered but still having trouble
with their enamel lining and should be approached with caution. There are newer players in the wall oven market, mostly makers of dragon ranges, like BlueStar and Capital, which we don't know enough about yet to call them favorites. For awhile Electrolux was a mid-range favorite, but it seems to have fewer adherents right now. Bosch seems to be reliable and mid-range. Ovens are probably the quirkiest and most problematic of appliances. The actual cooking part is around fourth in their considerations for manufacture.

Fridges are probably the least issue prone. Current "favorite" might be Miele, but again, that's in the high end price range and not for everyone. Same with SubZero which is still very well liked. Half a step down is Liebherr. A few really don't like it, but most who buy it are very happy. High end of mid-range, people are generally happy with Thermador. I'm less sure about favorites for free standing models. Even a bad fridge will keep your food cold. A better fridge will have fewer quirks, fewer warmer and colder spots, won't freeze the lettuce or milk, and will keep food fresher longer, partly because of fancy air filters, partly just from holding a constant temperature better.

You can find out everything you want to know about washers and dryers in the Laundry Room forum. If you want an old fashioned washing machine that works the way you think it should work and is built to last without any frou frou, they'll tell you Speed Queen is the way to go. For most control as well as quality, it's probably Miele.

Thank you very much for your time, and thoughtful response. I sincerely appreciate your recommendations. Would it be safe to say a Miele package my be a good way to go, if a package deal was purchased? Are there any appliances not recommended through Miele?

Microwave is definitely Sharp and dishwasher Bosch.

So much of "favourite" depends on what you want with respect to size and features. While a quality product of brand A might have few problems and good longevity, if it's the wrong size for your household or doesn't offer a feature that is important to you, then I doubt you'd call it your favourite. A perfect example is my range - I wanted induction with knobs, and having those knobs was really important to me. That means that other people's "favourites" in induction ranges might not be the right range for me.

I agree that Miele makes great appliances, but I think there's so much more than brand if you're going to be happy in your kitchen.

I would not hesitate to get an all Miele kitchen- I almost have that in one kitchen and it's a split between Miele, except for the gas range. In the other kitchen it is Miele d/w and refrigerator, Gagg induction, CSO and oven. The only Miele appliance I would not buy is their range (sad since it is a good looking machine.) I have gas in one kitchen and induction in the other.

PS Yes, I agree you can mix and match for optimal performance- but Miele is above average to great all around and I think that is pretty good.

I agree with Rita. Getting what you really want is better than getting all one maker (and you can usually get a discount from the dealer if you buy a whole suite of appliances, no matter what the mix is). If you do want a single brand for some reason, Miele is probably the only one that can do you well on just about anything. They may not be the best at everything, but other than possibly the ranges (I don't know much about the ranges), they're at least serviceable and more likely pretty good to excellent.

I like to just get standard sizes so I can replace anything without gutting the kitchen...

That works until they change the standard sizes :-) Refrigerators are now much taller than they were a couple of years ago.

I just realized you asked for washer and dryer and range recs too. I imagine my answer to the washer/dryer rec is obvious- Miele.

The range is the reason I discovered GW. I came here looking for a pro style range and learned about Blue Star and was almost set on getting that one for its simplicity and then I learned about induction's many virtues, so no range rec from personal experience. I have just inherited a Lacanche in my new house. I love how it looks. I have not used it much yet. It seems very nice. I am a bit spoiled by induction though. But her good looks keep her in the kitchen since she is a key element of the design.

I don't use a microwave.

Here's what I got and why

Range: Thermador pro grand steam 48" it's the only range with a steam oven in it. If I was getting a high end kitchen in 2017, a steam oven is a must. Otherwise Thermador is just average for the pro range class. Other options include bluestar or wolf, perhaps lacanche. If I went for a more vanilla range probably would have gotten bluestar.

MW /wall oven: Miele speed oven. It's great. Has a ton of functions and works flawlessly. Expensive. Got it mainly since it matched the coffee machine wife really wanted. If I was getting a steam oven instead of the range would have gone Miele too.

Fridge Thermador columns. Got them because of the package deal (free hood with them + range). They are well regarded here. I don't think there is much difference between Miele, Thermador, and SZ for a column fridge. Don't think you can go wrong with any of them if you have a 10kish budget. Miele & Thermador in particular are very similar. Without a package, price really wasn't all that different between the three brands.

DW. Miele is the best regarded for sure. So I got one. I also got a free Thermador Sapphire which is basically a Bosch. I see no difference in use except the Miele opens when its done which is a nice feature and efinitely helps with drying.

W/D. Electrolux. Big, good reviews, zero clearance install specs, practically no vibrations, allegedly reliable, good color (Grey), price wasn't too bad

We cook and entertain a lot and are largely replicating our current kitchen (which was replicated from the similar one we had before) in our new house.

Range: Current Wolf 36" AG (4 burner + 12" griddle) - New: Bluestar 48" AG (4 burner + 24" griddle).

Oven: Miele Masterchef

Oven: Miele Combi XXL

MW: GE Advantium

MW: We may do an under counter drawer style MW instead of the Advantium.

DW: Current 2 Asko & 1 FP drawer - New: 2 Miele (with pop open door).

Frig: SZ 36" (2 freezer drawers + frig)

Frig: 2 Frigidaire's in garage (each can be either frig or freezer).

Our current Wolf has the older semi-open burner that worked OK. The open burners on the BS should be significantly better than the sealed that are currently on the Wolf's. BS is working to re-design the rack rails to better accommodate standard baking sheets (lg oven) and chafer pans (small oven).

We've been really happy w/ the Asko's we've had but the Miele's are nearly free through a promo.

We were going to go with SZ columns but decided that counter space in the kitchen was more important. We'll also have a dedicated wine frig and pop frig that will free up some space.

I'll chime in on a few, as we have a 70+ year old O'Keefe & Merritt stove that definitely won't have any matching appliance packages! It's my understanding that Thermador and Miele refrigerators (and Gaggenau and maybe higher-end Bosch?) are mechanically identical, so what you need to consider is any price difference and the respective features. We bought a Thermador (36") because I wanted gallon storage in the door, which Miele didn't offer.

Miele claims it has easy-clean stainless, and that's proven true when comparing our Thermador fridge to the Miele dishwasher. Love the dishwasher, not only for that but also for what it holds and how, as well as its good cleaning and drying. One negative: the light telling you it's running is on the top of the door, shining upwards onto the bottom edge of the counter overhang, so it's VERY inconspicuous and easy to miss. I think Thermador shines on the floor with numbers telling the time remaining, and I'd prefer that.

Our microwave is a Sharp drawer. It's fine. I believe that Wolf uses the same innards for it's Wolf-looking drawer.

Lastly, we have a Blomberg compact washer and heat pump dryer, and they do what they're supposed to. I neither love them nor hate them.

I feel like maybe there should be a comparable thread for the "average" not super high end kitchen. While there may be no question of best in category, most of these suggestions are out of my price range.

Salonva, I agree with you. There are many good appliances to be had at half the cost of a Miele, but no one likes to talk about it - either because they don't want to look like they can't afford it, or because they benefit from the general "keeping up with the Joneses" type of spending.

LaCanche is SOOO very lovely and has plenty of power. Give a shot. I can't imagine you will not love it.

The OP commented on her other thread that her appliance budget is $12,000 not including the fridge. She would be getting 2 dishwashers. I don't know if she omitted that info here by mistake, or if she is thinking about increasing her budget. But it should be noted that almost all the recs on this thread are hi-end, and will cost several times her budget.

@salonva, sometimes the savings aren't worth it in the long term. For the new house we're building the priorities were;

1) Quality of design & construction. Give me quality over quantity any day.

2) Energy Efficient. Not overboard, but effective.

3) Proper details. We didn't want a fake facade on the front but for the house to be and look real. We wanted good details and nice finishes inside and out. Shutters that are sized correctly, hung properly and functional, proper windowsills, some nice crown moulding, etc. We wanted real materials instead of plastic or Hardieboard.

4) A well functioning kitchen. Doing this to the level we wanted meant giving up things elsewhere but given how much time we spend in the kitchen cooking and just hanging out, it's worth it - to us.

5 - 80) Other priorities. :-)

-------

We had to be tight and efficient on square footage (the four things above are more important to us). Even though we wanted stone or brick it became a lessor priority so wood shakes all around. Home theatre? Not this time (and we've a really nice one currently that we'll miss). We're not getting as much storage as we'd like. And I could go on and on. We may still do a sauna though if there's enough budget left. :-)

We're still getting a very nice house that we're excited about but we've had to make a lot of compromises based on our priorities. We also had to break up priorities. Energy was broken in to 3 pieces and in the end only got the highest priority bits and a little of the second. None of the third.

Our first kitchen was old Kenmore and we were quite happy with it. Second was newer Kenmore & Maytag. We'd debated stepping up a level or two since we knew that the new wasn't the same quality as the old but thought it'd be good enough. That was a mistake. New products didn't function as well and were massively less reliable. When we remodeled we decided that both reliability and function were worth stretching for (so Wolf/Miele/SZ #1) and were very glad we did so we mostly repeated the same in our current kitchen and are now mostly repeating it again for our new house.

Your priorities may well be different and there are fairly reliable and functional appliances at lower price points that may work well for you, but if you cook very much then give serious consideration to some higher end things that you'll enjoy on a daily basis.

One thing I have noticed on this board is that people are geeky enough to actually care about the appliances themselves. If this board were status driven, you would hardly need to discuss the merits and demerits of user interfaces, clean-up ability and granularity of the controls on induction hobs- along with the ever so sexy discussions about the angle and shape of exhaust plumes (forgive me if I got the wording of that one wrong.)

I have seen posters who discuss the highest end appliances, gleefully describe their good experiences with the most humble of toaster ovens. People concerned with status appliances can look through the pages of shelter magazines and fill their kitchens with glossiest brand without stopping over here.

As for a discussion of more moderately priced appliances, I have no doubt you would get many responses if you started such a thread. Bringing up experiences with old Kenmore appliances though is a non-starter. I've learned that from the most humble brand to the most exulted, appliance longevity ain't what it used to be. This board abounds with stories of decades old Kenmores and Kitchen Aids and Gaggenaus that performed flawlessly for eons and new versions of the same brands that are fussy and relatively short lived. The problems appear to be down to too many electronics and too much outsourcing/cost cutting.

So please, if there is information you require, ask for it. But kindly omit the defensiveness over brands and status. We each live within our own budgets and demands. And I don't know about the rest of the posters here, but if I wanted to hear about how my appliances were not worth their cost, I could open up the discussion with some relatives and they would gladly inform me of how I was wasting my money.

Durham Designs, I am actually quite thrilled to have the Lacanche. I discovered the brand here, and have a huge soft spot for its solid build, beautiful finish and dare I say it, its flames are way cool too. Plus the things I hear about the ovens are very intriguing. I'll be home much more as of now and look forward to becoming well acquainted with my new toy.

Oh, please, saying the savings don't make sense in the long run is justification for keeping up with the marketing and magazines, and overinflating the marketplace. We're not talking about choosing a cheaply made piece of anonymous crap at a yard sale for $100 instead of a Miele, we're talking about mid-range, reasonably built, effective appliances. Maybe they're not as efficient, maybe they're a little chunkier looking, maybe they're not as long lasting.....but if you've only got a $10K budget, who cares if the $10K range will last twice as long as the $2.5K range?

I will not allow designers to dictate how much I need or how much I should spend. It's easy to spend someone else's money with abandon. I love, love, love the kitchen my designer created, but I was the one that decided the level of quality and cost (i.e. the specifics of the cabinets, the appliance choices, etc) and where I would spend more or save more (eg spent more on my range, less on my fridge).

"Oh, please, saying the savings don't make sense in the long run is
justification for keeping up with the marketing and magazines, and
overinflating the marketplace."

let me explain a little, but I was (and still am) angry about it. This site is kind of like "home porn" - showcasing what are, for most, wholly unrealistic and unattainable but lovely to look and and dream about. That's OK, but like "traditional" porn, we do have the risk of losing sight of reality and setting our expectations too high, either resulting in paralysis because we can't have it, or constant disappointment because it's not as good/beautiful/big/fancy as people have come to see as "normal". I'd like to think in the forums posters are more realistic and understanding of real norms.

There is a difference between the "home porn" of Houzz and the Gardenweb forums, of which this is one. Learn the difference.

Budget was not mentioned in this thread. The OP asked for favorite. As Rita said, we get geeky about appliances. There is a serious problem with appliances nowadays. Companies that used to be known for selling good, solid affordable appliances have taken to selling stylish trash. It's a huge issue. You can get appliances at any budget level, but favorites are hard to find at big box stores. Adequate for the price is, as well as makes with just horrible multitudinous reviews where people have wasted their money on budget gear that was useless.

I agree we should be talking about low-range and mid-range appliances more, but first we need the people with experience with them who can talk about them positively.

There are many good appliances to be had at half the cost of a Miele,
but no one likes to talk about it - either because they don't want to
look like they can't afford it, or because they benefit from the general
"keeping up with the Joneses" type of spending.

The above is out and out reverse snobbery. I talk about Miele, etc., because that's what I know about, and know to be generally of good quality. I used to talk more about KitchenAid and Electrolux, but don't have current information and I've been seeing mostly negative posts recently. I don't know if those are just the inevitable dissatisfied minority or major problems (possibly both), but I don't know.

If you know from experience, friends, aggregation of reviews, or any other source about many good mid-range (half the cost of Miele) appliances, tell us about them, rather than just ragging on people for being able to afford the ones we talk about.

Salonva. My opinion as to why there are not many average type appliance threads on garden web is if you're shopping for an average appliance, most likely you go to Home Depot or some such store and see what they have to offer. Some just read up on what CR has to say and purchase that, but few will do more than that.

On the other hand, if you are looking for a high end appliance, you want to make sure that your money is spent wisely and you may have specific criteria, so you're far more likely to do a lot of research before purchasing, and that's where garden web comes in. I spent many hours over several months reading all the threads on the various items I purchased before buying (as well as what i could find on other sites.

As others have said, if you're looking for a status symbol, then you read the magazines and buy whatever's hot this week.

"The above is out and out reverse snobbery. I talk about Miele, etc.,
because that's what I know about, and know to be generally of good
quality."

The snobbery isn't in talking about Miele, etc, it's in proposing that they are the only good choices ("@salonva, sometimes the savings aren't worth it in the long term.") And pointing that out isn't reverse snobbery. There's nothing wrong with talking about high end appliances as your first choice and favourites! But when someone says "hey, how about mid-range?", it's rude (and arrogant) to suggest that there isn't anything worth their time or money. If you don't know anything about good mid-range appliances, simply say so. You don't need to make someone feel bad about their interest (or their budget) by suggesting they're regret their decisions later.

Hi Everyone. I didn't mean for my comment to start a whole discussion on that- I actually did think about starting a new thread for it but wasn't sure. I honestly think there is merit and I think I will do that now. I was surprised how defensive people got and I really did not mean for the OP to have to justify looking for high end. Toronto Vet I agree that if my complete budget is going to be 10K (or less) then a 10K or 12K range no matter how superior and long lasting it might be is just not under consideration. Again I am sorry for the hoopla I stirred up and am going to start a new thread to leave this one for the high end appliance favorites.

I did say upthread that the OP's budget stated in her other thread was $12,000 which included 2 dishwashers, but did not include the fridge. No one noticed.

Toronto Vet, I agree that much is like "home porn" which I am addicted to even though I work in the business. I am constantly on the hunt for items I can afford that meet the standards that has been established in the best magazines, Houzz, Pinterest, etc. I am one of few high end designers that given the price range and location of the home will try to convince clients the don't always need THOSE RED buttons! However, in our prestigious areas they are expected in the upper tier and many mid tear homes will tell you that clients chose their home because of the kitchen.

That said, I, like you struggle with decisions for my own life. I have only owned regular type appliances and I can cook very well. However, I would love to have a gas range but struggle with the expense of redoing the kitchen to make it work!

I love my new Bosch dishwasher. It wasn't inexpensive but I love the 3rd drawer for the silverware.

Jerry-just b/c one cannot afford high end appliances, doesn't mean that we don't still care about what we are getting. I have been wanting a new fridge and stove, and I am looking at brands commonly found in Lowes/Home Depot, etc, and honestly I haven't made a choice b/c I'm dismayed at the various reviews. But I can't afford a high end appliance just b/c its a sure thing.

FWIW, the thread that stated a $12k appliance budget excluding refrigerator also gave a 48" Jenn Air gas range as a starting possibility. Before suggesting a Blue Star, I checked on the Jenn Air's price and found it came it at $8k. Blue Star weighs in at $9K- not a world of difference. It's hardly like I was given a Chevrolet parameter and came in with a BMW.

PS The 48" dimension is the thing that makes the price go higher and limits the brand choices. My favorite mid-priced brand is Bosch- they do not make a 48 range- I checked before responding to the OP.

"But I can't afford a high end appliance just b/c its a sure thing."

Plenty of bad reviews on high end appliances too. If that makes you feel better...

DrB-I was more taking issue with this comment from Jerry, "On the other hand, if you are looking for a high end appliance, you want to make sure that your money is spent wisely". It implies that those of us not looking at high end appliances need not be as choosy, which isn't correct. A refrigerator and a stove is still going to be a major purchase for me, even if its from Whirlpool.

"I love my new Bosch dishwasher. It wasn't inexpensive but I love the 3rd drawer for the silverware."

Interestingly, it's the one appliance I bought for my newly renovated kitchen that I don't like and wish was different (I bought a KitchenAid fridge, an LG range, a Kobe island range hood, and a Bosch dishwasher). I love the quiet operation and I love the third rack, but I absolutely hate the layout of the lower rack and find it really inefficient. I've gotten some ideas on these forums about ways to possibly replace that lower rack with a different layout.

Thank-you for the explanation, Toronto. My apologies for having misinterpreted what you said.

I also think you may have misinterpreted Opaone's post, though I get how you got there, having seen your explanation. Further into the post, Opaone explained "...newer Kenmore & Maytag. We'd debated stepping up a level or two since we knew that the new wasn't the same quality as the old but thought it'd be good enough. That was a mistake." Followed by prioritizing high end quality appliances.

Unfortunately, the dismay Angela talked about is a common issue. Yes, you can find negative reviews of every brand--it's the unrelenting preponderance of really awful reviews of appliances not working and companies not responding while the units are under warranty that are crazy making.

I'll say this in Savona's thread as well, but best as I can figure, getting old, back catalog designs might be the best for low budget appliances. My relatives got a compact GE fridge recently. It's inexpensive, and made recently, but the basic box is the same one they've been selling for years and years and it seems to be a quality appliance. Similarly, you can still buy ranges and fridges without a lot of "features" that were top of the line twenty years ago. Old tech is proven tech. If you can give up the gizmos and styling for function, it's probably the best way to go.

" If you can give up the gizmos and styling for function"

There are so many things on appliances that I look at now and think "that's just one more thing to break and/or cause trouble", but that doesn't keep them from being popular. Still, it can be hard to find good without fancy......I was looking for a fridge without an ice maker or water dispenser but with a bottom freezer, and it wasn't easy. I had very many fewer options and in several the build felt flimsy and cheap.

Angela M. Honest, I wasn't trying to belittle anyone or start a flame war, but I don't think I'm wrong in thinking that the majority of folks who look for mid range appliance don't do a great deal of research because appliances are not that important to them. Appliances are important to those who come here and I think it's fair to say that there are more threads about the higher end brands then there are about lower end brands. The kitchen remodel that I did earlier this year is my first venture into higher end appliances. Always before I just checked a couple of review places and looked at what the big box stores had.

Jerry, I hear what you are saying and I understand you didn't mean to offend. But I don't think I'm wrong in saying that a lot of common people probably leave the Houzz forums if they have lurked or asked a question. I know myself I have seen questions about more common type appliances and basically been told to save my $ and get higher end. I do feel that overall, this board can be a bit snobbish in that way (not trying to direct at you personally, just the general feeling I get).

I am a higher end appliance geek. I am always so interested to hear of others experiences with their fancy expensive appliances. LOL. But--it really is geekery for me, not snobbery. Cars are far more recognizable status items that more people actually see you in--and I usually have a car that is a mess and old. Hate it when I have to break down and think about replacing an old car. My DH definitely has the rustiest and oldest car in his work's parking lot. But we probably have the most expensive appliances of anyone I know (mind you, I don't live in a very high cost of living area). When i just moved, the one exclusion I put in the house sale was my washer/dryer -- and my dryer is 14 years old!!! It's a Miele and worth much more to me than to a buyer. So I took them with me.

Anyhow for the OP, here's the new house: (looks like I am on the same page as drb above)

washer/dryer: the Miele set I moved from the old house. Plus, a new Miele washer Little Giant. Got a deal off a demo model from the canadian commercial dealer. LOVE IT.

Fridge: Thermador columns. Early days. But very happy with them! QUIET. Nicely laid out. Nice lighting. Overall, MUCH better than our Liebherr. We'll see over the long run, but for now, would redo this purchase.

Dishwasher: Miele professional dishwasher. LOVE.

Range: Thermador pro grand steam 48". had to have a steam oven, didn't really have room for a separate one in my kitchen layout. Range was more efficient for me than separate oven/cooktop in our kitchen layout. Wanted a Miele range, but too many problems being reported to risk it. Plus, I'd had a Miele gas cooktop in the past, and it was just okay. Sounded to me like the ranges had the same old ignition problems as my older Miele cooktop. Didn't want to deal with that, especially not for the price!!! We ran out of budget fast in the build, so it was easy to take Thermador's deal for the free hood. Happy so far, but I do miss my Miele oven. The one the house buyers looked at and called 'inadequate'. LOL. If they only knew. I almost took it with me, but nowhere to put it. One thing I'd heard about Thermador oven is that the fan runs a lot, even after it is done and is loud. This is definitely true. It is LOUD. Weird. Not at all like my Miele oven in this respect. Seems so ...rude. LOL. But I can live with it. I am sure the Miele steam ovens are better, but I am having fun with the steam oven in the Thermador. So far really happy with this range, even with its rudely loud oven fans. Sure is fun having this much real estate in a range! I like the burners a lot. Haven't done much baking yet, as it is not the time of year for that for me.

Hood: free Thermador hood. Pleasantly surprised by this. Very happy with it.

By the way-- my Thermador range/fridge purchase came with the free hood and d/w. I wanted my Miele commercial D/w, so I resold the THermador d/w. The guy who bought it kits up his rental units with high end appliances that he patiently sources via kijiji (canadian craigslist). So he searches the area for Thermador (often resold because of the package deals I guess), Miele, Wolf, Gagganeau, etc. He usually gets NIB stuff. People change their mind and resell. He snags the deal. This sounds like a smart way to go if you have patience and a bit of time to invest in the process, and like your high end appliances but not their prices. He seems like he can tell the good/bad/credible deals from experience just from the look of the ads. Smart guy.

oh, and no microwave for us. (Haven't had once since the 90s. I just don't like them. I do find the steam oven handy for reheating.)

Also, though you didn't ask about this category-- bought a Miele countertop coffeemaker for the new house kitchen on a good sale. Mother's Day and DH birthday fell on the same day so guess what we got ourselves for the occasion? One expensive delightful coffeemaker. I have given it a name and my kids think I might take it instead of them if I had to choose in a fire. Poor kiddos. But my 9 year old knows how to use it to make a mean latte, and that is a quality of life improvement for me, to have a 9 year old barista serving me in the mornings before work! Gold! So I recommend this appliance, too, though I don't have much beyond a Chemex to compare it to, and I am just keeping my fingers crossed that it lasts, because I understand these have an uncomfortably spotty track record for longevity....

Two thoughts...

1) Fascinating thread and I think everyone raised some great points. The point that I perhaps did a poor job of making is that there is a lot more cost than just the up front purchase cost. A $7k range that lasts 20 years will cost a lot less than a $3k range that lasts 6 years. For many of us this might mean forgoing some near-term expenses like eating out as often as we'd like, but we more than make up for it on the back end by not having future costs of repair and replacement. And, as mentioned above, high-end or expensive doesn't always mean greater reliability. This latter is our biggest concern with switching from Wolf to Bluestar.

For those who do a lot of cooking there is also opportunity cost in having less functionality than desired.

2) There is also a fascinating economics bit here. People in the U.S. spend twice as much on transportation as those in Europe and over twice as much on healthcare. Together these differences are about $7k per year per person so $28k/yr for a family of four. We waste money in one area so we don't have it to spend in another like appliances—that we use every day.

And we have nothing to show for it. We have the most dangerous roads (by design, not poor drivers) and the highest rates of fatalities of all developed countries. We are 3 times as likely to be killed by someone driving a car as someone in The Netherlands and 4 times as likely as someone in Sweden.

We're much less healthy, have a lower life expectancy, more preventible diseases, higher obesity and lower quality of life.

Are our poor decisions (individually & collectively) elsewhere causing us to have to make poor decisions (appliances, finishes, saunas :-) etc) in other areas? My wife's cousin, visiting from Sweden, was amazed at how many people here drive a car to some place only a mile or two away. She will always ride her bicycle. It costs about $1/mile to drive a car in the U.S. vs a couple of pennies to ride a bicycle. Given how many of our trips are less than 2 to 5 miles that can add up quickly.

"For those who do a lot of cooking there is also opportunity cost in having less functionality than desired."

I think I know what you mean, but (if I'm right), it's different than what this says. Cooking a lot doesn't require either large amount/space or unique functions. Those things rely on whom/how many one is cooking for and personal taste in what they like to eat and how they like to cook. I cook almost all the time (and cook for fun and pleasure), and wouldn't gain anything in a high end appliance that would give me anything I want or need for my cooking (I think I'd gain longevity, but little else).

As for your other thoughts about what Americans spend on: While it's true that "People in the U.S. spend twice as much on transportation as those in Europe and over twice as much on healthcare.", those aren't always decisions American individuals make, or can change. They're inherent in the system that individuals are often forced to deal with, so it's not like they have the option of saving money there that they can spend somewhere else. Healthcare? Ugh, don't get me started on the horrendous effect insurance companies have had on US healthcare costs, or on the politics of individuality that stresses acute care over prevention. Driving? Yeah, I know......I told some people at a business lunch at an American conference that I'd taken a (city) bus, and they looked at me like I was crazy; apparently they think "decent" people don't take the bus in their city. And when I met some Americans at a business meeting in Toronto, they all commented on how many people they saw walking to or from lunch, etc. But these are cultural differences based on decades and generations, and involve politics much more than personal cooking desires.

Regardless, I think the "collective" choices Americans make in their transportation and healthcare costs vs Europe have really nothing to do with what an individual American can spend on appliances.

Agree. That's why I said 'desired'. You don't desire more so are quite fine with something different than me. There are likely other areas where you desire something with much greater quality, functionality and cost than I do.

I'm actually not a very good cook but I enjoy it and enjoy having good tools to use when I'm doing it. For my skill level better tools can also lessen frustration. My daughter-in-law OTOH is a pseudo professional cook. She has a tiny kitchen in NYC with mid-grade appliances and yet produces phenomenal meals that far exceed what I do in a much larger and higher end kitchen. She does enjoy our kitchen and the ability to sear or make things that require more utensils and space than she has.

... Regardless, I think the "collective" choices Americans make in their transportation and healthcare costs vs Europe have really nothing to do with what an individual American can spend on appliances.

Actually we have considerable choice and on two levels.

1) Individually we can choose to walk or ride a bicycle to the grocery or dinner instead of drive. This not only saves us the costs of driving but improves our health which also saves us on healthcare costs, particularly beyond age 40.

Some can't do this, but many can. If we can't do it because of where we live then we can possibly choose to live somewhere different. In building our new house we chose a place that is in a close-in 2nd ring suburb and about 2 miles from a village that includes a grocery, pharmacy, several places to eat, and a good coffee place. This choice allows us to ride our bicycles for our local transportation (saves money, healthier, saves on healthcare costs, etc.) and will likely allow us to get rid of one car.

2) We can get involved in changing where we live. The suburb we're moving to is the way it is because a bunch of mom's got together 16 years ago and decided that they wanted their kids to be able to walk or ride bicycles to school, something that the then existing city & county roads were too dangerous for. It took a lot of work and several battles with politicians and traffic engineers but today this suburb has bikeways (not bike lanes) beside nearly every road. Because of this it's also become one of the most highly desired suburbs in our metro. 40% of children transport themselves to school and this has led to decreased obesity and higher academic performance. And this is in cold snowy Minnesota BTW.

For my wife and I we save enough money to be able to afford some things that we otherwise would not be able to and when we get rid of one car then we'll save considerably more.

The problem with our healthcare system isn't doctors or insurance companies but what we put in to it—us. We're an unhealthy obese lot and we cost a gob of money to maintain. The healthier a lifestyle that we lead the less healthcare we'll need. The more of us that live a healthier lifestyle the more that insurance premiums will be able to come down for all of us.

These choices all do have a very direct impact on other areas like what appliances or finishes or cooking utensils we can afford. As above though, we all also have different desires and priorities for how we spend our money.

Millennials are kind of figuring this out. They're moving in to the cities or to village focused suburbs where they don't even need to own a car. They're also much more conscious about eating healthier. They don't want to spend (or waste?) the enormous sums on transportation and healthcare that their parents (that would be me) do.

"1) Individually we can choose to walk or ride a bicycle to the grocery
or dinner instead of drive. This not only saves us the costs of driving"

Barely. The real costs of driving are in the car and the insurance. Saving a couple of gallons of gas a week isn't going to make a dent in the cost of driving. It certainly will help with health though ;)

Real reductions in the cost of driving would come with getting rid of a car entirely, then using other modes of transportation -- riding, walking, taking transit, renting cars, using ride-share cars, or taking cabs. Of course, that presumes you live in an area with reasonable safety (for bikes and walking), reasonable transit, or available car- or bike-share programs. That is, it's easier in some cities than others, and far easier in cities than in small-town areas. I know of several people in Toronto who've given up owning cars, but they still drive at least a few times a week using Zipcars and rental cars for long distances and big loads.

I also disagree with you about the source of the costs of healthcare, but that's a different debate for a different place.

We got a bit off-track. I started a thread here to continue: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/4879820/m=23/healthy-decisions