Thanks for the new comments! As I mentioned before I am working on being able to post a much more detailed floorplan. Thanks for hanging in there with me! jejvtr- Thanks for your detailed observations! Some great thoughts. To answer your Qs: Existing fireplace is not appealing - it's old and ugly. Hard to see from floorplan, but the hood doesn't impinge on the masonry fireplace - it's actually in front of one of two existing pantry closets that flank the existing fireplace (this room was originally a tiny den). This wall gave us a lot of headaches - considered a wall of pantry closets surrounding a fireplace with the kitchen on other side of room, but this was a much less functional use of space and would also have been $$$$. I really appreciate the comments about issues involved in covering over the FP - will definitely ask ALL of those Qs. Range - A range is not my first choice - I prefer two full sized ovens, and not to have to bend down, but I'd consider, if it would really help matters (they do look great). Base cabinets - definitely want drawers for pots and pans - they are just not shown yet. Pantry - an extension of one of the existing ones. Re: adding a cabinet to the right of the sink - I can make that happen by reducing the size of that window. Only issue is that the pane size won't then match what is in the rest of the back of the house, but that doesn't bother me - it also gives a natural ending place for backsplash. No room for a wrap around hutch there, unfortunately. Thanks very much for taking the time to look at this with me! mjlb- Thank you -loved the drawing! I am especially excited about the idea of bringing down that corner cabinet to the counter - I think that would, indeed, give some balance to the run. I think you are also on to something as far as switching the position of the fridge - it's not that much farther away from the window sink and becomes easier to access for others. If I end up putting a primary sink in that island, it's like having two zones and remains very close. I like the concept of open shelves there, too. Verry interesting. To answer your other Qs: As mentioned, we can reduce that window and make room for a cabinet to the right of sink. I thought of a single post lamp fixture. Only Q is whether it would provide adequate light for the current 9' island. I have given some thought to the idea of two smaller islands, too. However, I'm also thinking of moving the sink to the middle of that island and making it a primary sink, in which case I'd need pullouts for trash, a dishwasher etc. But I would consider. Main entry near pantry is from the front of the house and the foyer/main hallway The room "below" the built in desk is the existing (already decorated) living room. Your point that the old part of the kitchen seems vacant is well taken. I felt that it was even worse when we tried to design a plan that was flipped the other way, though. Bigger is not always easier to design -unfortunately walls are not always able to go in the right places! I like your idea to try to break up the uninterrupted built in cabinets against the wall look. - a separate hutch, rounded edges, a desk designed to look like a desk, rather than a built in , etc. I think that with this comment you really got to the heart of one of the major things bothering me about the space. Thanks again for all your help! segbrown- Thanks for your suggestion! I especially like the idea of ending the island where the ceiling height changes. I will look into this. Maybe there is some creative way to incorporate the island with that in mind. I do think there is an issue with turning the island 90 degrees in that it can't be too long before impinging on the breakfast room space. Thanks so much!

I think this has been a fruitful discussion. I hope it continues. The more I think about this, the more I believe people should be encouraged by KDs, the kitchen sellers at the big box stores, cabinet makers, etc., to consider counter heights when planning a kitchen. And I think a big shout-out to many of the great contributors here at GW is called for because until I spent hours...well, really weeks of hours...reading through reveals, advice to folks planning their kitchens, and such, I never would have thought of all these types of details being important for a good, functional, pleasant space. GWE’s (GardenWeb Experts) are the bomb!! Last night I made a big salad and started a pot of “clean out the refrigerator” soup. I really liked chopping and that kind of prep on the higher counter. My DH helped a bit a really liked it as well. I also made scratch biscuits. I hand-mixed the dough at four different heights: on the higher counter with the triple breadboards on top (didn’t like), regular counter height (didn’t like), on the breadboard when it was slid into its slot, just below counter-height (liked it much better but still a bit high), and then put the breadboard across two counter-height stools (a bit too low). I think a small stretch of counter somewhere in-between the latter two would be nice for that type of work and other baking, machine-mixing, yada yada type tasks. I’ll continue the experiments. My chiropractor...who I seldom need anymore due to the excellent exercises he’s given me to strengthen my back and keep myself in alignment...does a weekly radio show on our local station. I called in this morning and mentioned this issue and asked him about it. He was very enthusiastic and gave some examples of people he has worked with who have had back issues directly related to long-term repetitive movements where things are not at the right height for them. So, really, for someone who cooks a lot, this isn’t a trivial issue. I really want to learn more about this. Oh, gosh...my friends already think I’m the anti-high-heel and heavy-purse nazi, now I'll be the counter-height nazi, too. But I had a back injury for which I was told I would never fully recover, only have limited mobility, and will always have pain. Well, I proved them wrong on all counts due to proper exercises (mostly from chiropractor) and body movements. I can go hiking with a 30+-pound pack and other activities, like 50-mile bike rides, that they said I'd never be able to do again. And I haven't taken a pain pill since 2008. It's because I've become the healthy-back nazi, LOL. This stuff is important for quality of life issues, imho. Off my soap box. @westsider 40 - Good points about not kneading long. I really don’t bake often where I need to knead. When I do, I move my large breadboard to my table and do it there. So it might be best to just continue doing it that way. @Oaktown - 14” difference! Wow. You would almost need two separate kitchens to work best for the two of you. Yeah, I think you should have a stool under each appliance and in each toekick. Just pull the whole thing out when you’re cooking. DH can push it all in when he’s cooking. @tracie.erin - Interesting on the stove height. I can see why that would be good to have it lower since your arm motion is different when stirring and such at a stove vs. chopping/slicing/dicing in a prep area. I do think my stove is the right height. If we do raise the counters on the wall, we’ll have to make adjustments for a lower stove top. Thanks for the tip. @laughable - Yes, I’m trying to put a lot of thought into this kitchen. And you are one of the people who have really inspired me to put in the extra time and effort to get it right. It will be my last so it better be good! I usually transfer from stock/crock pots in the sink because I’m unbelievably clumsy, lol. The pictures aren’t showing, darn it. I just am getting the Photobucket “This person has moved or deleted” message. It could be my computer. I had to take it back to factory settings last night and am still loading updated drivers and such. I’ll come back later and check it again. I can visualize your explanation of what he did in his own kitchen and why. Still need to get to my library to see if they have any of his books.

Study the designs of Frank Lloyd Wright, who (among others) used ceiling heights, together with the width and length of various spaces to create stunning spatial variety in his homes. For example, an entry might be a mid-height space, the travel to the main living area might be very confined, and when arriving at the main living area the space seems to explode by comparison. Mr. Wright achieved these effects by varying the width and height of spaces, making corridors narrow and low, and major living spaces wide and high by comparison. For this to be effective, it must be an integral part of the design thinking from the outset. It takes someone who can think and see in three-dimensions when designing, but the results can be memorable. In a different approach, there are ranges of pleasing proportions for spaces based on the length, width and height--a sort of "golden proportion". One can Google "golden proportion", "golden section" or "golden mean" to read more about them. Making ceilings all the same height in a home is really a convenience for the framer, so that s/he doesn't have to think differently room to room. Before homes commonly had air-conditioning, ceiling heights were commonly set based on climate--humidity and temperature. Houses in the south had much higher ceilings and homes in colder climates tended to have lower ceilings. One can tell a lot about the architectural anthropology of a home by its ceilings!

Sure you can. Folks here do it all the time. We had drop ceilings with the ugly plastic panels and fluorescents above them. Cutting off the ducts has worked fine for everyone I know. Just look up above the dropped ceiling and then make sure the soffit is empty. Before: After: The first photo was my kitchen when I rented there, second is from a current listing from a similar unit. The short stub wall at the end of the cabinet run has the waste pipe from the upstairs bath, so that had to stay. I did remove the dropped ceiling in mine, which is an easy DIY project, and a neighbor did the trimming for me. I would say that 92 out of a hundred units did this with no problems. (The other 8 just never bothered to do anything to the original kitchen.) ETA, Joseph, I'm interested in the problems you see with this, because I don't know anyone who has had a bit of trouble, not even $5 more on the electric bill, after doing it. No HVAC person has ever fainted from horror or anything, either.