Well, I do not have any standards but any paniculata (or most) can be trained into a tree form. Unfortunately, many paniculatas can also be a pain because many can flop... especially when the branches are young and not strong enough to support the weight. As they get older, the branches harden (get stronger) and flopping is less of a problem.

But you can also choose a variety whose blooms are not gigantic, as smaller blooms weigh less. You may still experience some issues now and then (if wet for example) but after several years of being planted, the tree should perform better.

You may also consider training more than one, say QF and either Tardiva or VS. QF usually blooms early and, for my taste, I would like to have a later blooming one so as the first one's blooms turn brown, the other ones blooms are white (Tardiva) or a shade of pink (VS).

VS - being Vanilla Strawberry?

If flopping or branch breaking is a major concern of yours then you are best off getting a paniculata that has a more open flower that won't get weighed by the rain. Thus, quick fire, pinky winky, fire and ice all have fairly open flowers are probably your best choices.

However, even the other varieties with more full flowers (VS, limelight etc) its not a huge deal if a branch breaks. One of the advantages of growing a tree form is when they do flop the blooms are not on the ground so it still looks neat. Finally, if you do decide to get a variety with more full flowers (VS, limelight etc) definitely do remove the blooms when the go brown in the fall. Under the weight of snow, blooms left on can damage it.

Hi everyone and thanks for your input. It's so nice for you to join in. I suppose one does have to expect a certain amount of flop in a hydrangea and if I want a formal tight ball look I should look for another type of plant. I like the look of one trunk, but it certainly makes sense that keeping several is a more sturdy structure. I'll have to consider that.
Hyed does your Quickfire have one stem or more in the photo with the PG? The VS and Pinky are really lovely. Does Pinky flop a lot with a rainfall? Have they been pruned up early or did you wait until they were nearly their full size?

Mary,the QF had a few small stems at the trunk and I removed them a few yrs ago. as for flopping both the QF& PW do great, I find VS has the strongest branches...you can start by removing some of lower branches too start the shaping

Sorry I don't know all the varieties that well by abbreviations. So, just so I get this right, the Quickfire is the pink on the right ( ? ) and the white one on the left is perhaps a Limelight?

Yes, Quickfire&Limellight

I grow Pinky Winky and Quickfire, and both just as shrubs, but neither has ever flopped, even with this summer's hail and 2 1/2" rain in less than an hour. My favorite is QF because it has such a long bloom period, from around July 1 - frost. PW blooms for 3 - 4 weeks less since it starts later. There are photos of my shrubs In this thread.

Nice photos NHBabs! I really love how you have the delicate clematis weaving through your Quickfire. I like the lacy and perhaps more the not too pointy look of the Quickfire blooms. If I could make my Annabelle behave (and not insist on taking over so much real estate in the root area) I'd have more Annabelles, but no matter how much I dice back the roots she comes back like she didn't notice. A small flowered Annabelle like bloom on a one stemmed trunk sounds nice to me.

Intrigued by the light and lacy blooms I bought both a Quickfire this spring and have rooted several cuttings, so I should have a few for "experiments". The original I want to keep in shrub form so it fills out to the ground. I also bought a Fire and Ice that didn't bloom this year and rooted cuttings of her as well. I also want this original to fill out to the ground if possible, but the cuttings are up for experiments too.

I guess it's a bit of a compromise if I want dense looking blooms on a one stemmed plant. I saw several at the garden centres that flopped even before any flowers formed, but they were likely freshly grafted and would grow stronger stems with maturity. I believe they were Pinky Winky and Limelight. I read in another post somewhere that someone cuts the points off the ends of some of their pointy hydrangea blooms to remove some of the weight. I suppose I could do that to "round out" my blooms of say Pinky Winky or Vanilla Strawberry or even Limelight. Perhaps if I prune and train my own instead of having grafted stems at the top they would be stronger from the beginning. Of course that would also add several years to my process. This is all pending that deer don't eat the darlings! They sure love my cedar and the neighbours apple trees.

"instead of having grafted stems at the top". I am curious . . . Did you actually see grafted stems at the top? I've only seen trained ones, not grafts.

Yes I saw the graft marks, and I have talked with nurseries that sell them. They have told me specifically that they are grafted. They've even warned me that if I buy one I should "watch the graft" because there is a lot of stress on this grafted joint and if it should break off the form and variety on the top is lost. It is far more common (here at least) for standards and weeping forms of most any variety to be grafted rather than trained. I imagine it is a quicker process saving several years and therefore more profitable, and they can start with a very thick main stem.

Hello, Mary. I have not encountered a hydrangea wholesaler who sells grafted hydrangeas to this day. Would you mind my asking if the plant's label listed the wholesaler's name and what was their name?

I am curious and want to contact them to find out why they deemed it necessary to graft. I can understand grafting due to nematodes but, I am only aware of one place with this issue (Florida) & it is only for roses; so, it is odd to find hydrangeas being grafted.

I concur that you need to be extremely vigilant and careful of the graft union as I just lost a grafted dwarf peach tree over this last winter. The scion died but the rootstock is now growing like gangbusters.

I imagine it's because with our cooler climate things grow so darned much slower up here. I once asked this same nursery, of my favourite, about why hardy roses were sold on grafted root stalks. It was a simple matter of dollars, and being able to put them on the market faster. They gain one year, therefore taking a few dollars off the selling price. People were not buying the own roots because they were "too expensive". So imagine the difference in years with something like a standard (one stemmed many years training and growth to selling point) hydrangea? I don't have the wholesaler name, but when I googled "top grafted hydrangea" I came up with several sources, mostly Canadian but one in Minnesota.

Mary is correct: here in Ontario the hydrangea tree forms are grafted, and likely to save money by reducing the time to get the plants to market and not having to spend as much time training the plants to a tree form. They are very common in both nurseries and also big box stores like Home Depot around here.

I have a grafted Limelight tree. Even with cutting back the hydrangea stems each spring the top tends to flop a lot because the blooms are so heavy, and can become bent for the rest of the season after a big rain and those giant blooms. I have had a few break, but always further down the branch and not at the graft itself.

As other have said, the hydrangeas with smaller and more open forms like Pink Winky and Quickfire stay much more upright. I have both of those and they have no flopping issues. My Vanilla Strawberry flops and my Limelights also flop as they grow larger. If you want a hydrangea with those giant balls of flowers and no flopping you may have to find a way to prop them up or tie them back.

I actually came back to this forum to ask about finding a non-flopping replacement for my Vanilla Strawberry. I love it, but I need it next to a narrow path and so when it flops/grows non-upright the path gets blocked.

Luis,

A big wholesaler around here is JC Bakker. They definitely sell top-grafted hydrangea standards. Here is an example:

http://www.jcbakker.com/product/hydrangea-paniculata-limelight/

Check the category tag: Topgrafted standards

Great discussion. So nice to hear from people who are growing them..

What does a decent size LL tree go for ..I have seen 3 footer for $130 and decent size (5/6') for maybe $200 or more ...picture of my PW last yr (notice the one in previous post ) pruned back late Fall

I think it is fair to say that there is some structural difference between a multi trunk tree (what one might call a limbed up shrub) and a ONE trunk hydrangea tree. Of course besides that people have different experiences with the same tree or shrub depending on climate, rainfall, etc. Talking specifically ONE trunk hydrangea trees ( the ones that have a formal topiary look ) I''ve seen them go for about $100 and up.

To paint a picture - The grafted top hydrangeas I've seen they are about 5 feet tall and also have about 4 feet of naked somewhat thin trunk before the graft The cheaper ones often not have well spaced or balanced branches. They are sold at box stores and have branches that droop even before there is the added weight of any forming blooms. They were with one trunk grafted top of Limelights and Pinky Winkys. I'm not saying they would not turn into strong beauties with age, from what I've heard they certainly do improve, but it's discouraged me from putting down my money to buy one. P TW have you noticed a big improvement each year you've had your grafted top hydrangeas?

I suppose another potential advantage of the grafted top could be added eventual height depending on the variety of hydrangea that is grafted on top, providing the grafted stems grow strong enough and the zone of the top grafted variety is low enough to withstand the winter cold.

Mary,

I only have one grafted standard hydrangea: a limelight that I have had for 3 years now. I have not seen any improvement in terms of floppiness. This year it is flopping like crazy due to the giant blooms and the rainfall, and after drying out did not recover back to the upright shape it had for much of the summer. I do prune it back and remove weak branches in late winter, but I admit I am a somewhat timid pruner and maybe I am not pruning enough which worsens the flopping.

However, a neighbour down the street has a Pinky Winky grafted standard in his front yard. The top section is a lot smaller compared to my Limelight standard (I think they prune it a fair amount each year. The top is smaller than the pictures that Hyed provided of his PW tree-form), and it remains very upright and quite frankly is stunning. He has smaller hydrangeas (and a few other perennials) planted underneath and the effect is wonderful.

Just curious. Would Little Limelight be to small a variety to train into a standard? My gut feeling is yes, but there are a lot of them on sale locally so it makes it an idea I'm entertaining.

You could train it (LL) since I have even seen some mophead trained as stardards too; they both (LL and mopheads) just do not get very tall though.

Since the growth is not on the bottom, but pushed to the top by removing so many lower branches by training it to standard form makes me wonder if it wouldn't grow taller than the usual height. Still, I suppose something that naturally wants to grow taller would give me a faster product and more room to play with the pruning aspect. Then I'd also have some "extra" if there was damage over winter by snow or, heaven forbid deer. I guess there's no "regular to standard" height conversion tables. :)

Luis - that is interesting about the mopheads. A little while ago, I trimmed my Endless Summer to remove all the thin/floppy stems at the bottom, which results in showing the more established old wood. Sort of the same trimming you might do on a paniculata. I was surprised my wife even liked it more after the trimming.

I have a few dwarf paniculatas. I don't intend to grow them into standard tree form, but I did want to try to emulate some of those old paniculata's, some people refer to them as "heirloom," but they look like very well established peegee's. The ones I'm referring to have several trunks and aren't "pushed" up quite as tall by trimming the lower branches, somewhere between a standard and shrub. I was going to start working on this by removing thin, inside and crossing branches, leaving the strongest several trunks on my Stawberry Sunday and Bobo. My little lime has more of a single trunk at the base, but quickly branches off with a lot of trifurcations. I plan on removing 1-branch in each trifurcation.

Sounds like you have a good plan! :o)

Project completed ( notice PG in previous post) all set for next summer

Wow, I'd hardly recognize it. Thanks so much for the before and after. I'm sure it is inspiring to many of us.

Thanks Mary

Looks great!