The overhang people are referring to is the marble hanging over the edge of the cabinet, not the overhang ("flange") on the edges of your cooktop. If the overhang is not even on the entire length of the cabinet front to back (visible only when you pull out the range) then maybe it's an easy fix to straighten that out.

Yes, is there an overhang from the countertop to the cabinet?

Because, if the cabinets are square and plumb, and the countertop is not square, the lines won't match up. You will either have an overhang in one area or an area where the countertop isn't flush with the cabinet underneath.

So, you are saying that the counter overhangs the cabinet at the rear of the cutout by 1"? If the cabinets are straight and plumb, that would need to be the case for the counter to be out of square, but the cabinet to be square. If the counters are flush with the cabinet sides, with no overhang, then the cabinets are not square. If more than 30" of opening was left between the cabinets at the front, there is no way to not have a gap between the cabinets and range. Or counter and range. Also, what about the obvious deviation from the vertical on that cabinet to the left? That obvious non plumb issue would bother me a lot more than having a bit too much breathing space around the range.

I can't imagine a counter fabricator using misaligned cabinets as the guide for an appliance. I can't think of an appliance that does not call for a square cutout. This is just bonkers, and blaming it on cabinets (or the customer!) is bonkers too.

Poor templating. The cabinets shouldn't have been used as a reference point in this location and the gap should absolutely have parallel lines. This needs a redo.

Now if you had told them make the gap 30" and the stove was 30 1/16" inches and didn't fit, that would have been on you...

thank you everyone for the input. I actually called the owner on Saturday September 2nd. After speaking with him (he was yelling), he advised he would be sending over his fabricator to look at the job on Tuesday the 5th of September. I texted the fabricator Tuesday morning to confirm the time and of course he said he had no idea he was scheduled to come over (this is one of many times the company has been late or not shown up). After being inconvenienced and having to switch my schedule around he did finally arrive in the later afternoon. He basically advised that we had a "difference of option" and two "separate truths". He NEVER took responsibility for the issue and quite frankly refused to acknowledge. I told him I am not happy and I want the pieces refrabicated and reinstalled (and any and all expensed associated with the reinstallation eg. plumber, electrician etc.. be taken care of by the company) He then advised upon leaving that he would communicate everything we spoke about to his boss and get that the owner would get back to me asap. I have not heard a WORD back as of today. I did go ahead and dispute the charges on American Express hoping that was the proper form of action. Quite frankly, I am not interested in getting my money back, I want the job redone correctly. Anyone have advice on what they would do in this situation.

Joseph, what would you have done in this situation? thanks so much

I would do what you have done: dispute the charge. I hope you get your money back and then take it to another fabricator. It'll probably cost you extra to get the old thing removed and all that, but the current company has shown no interest in doing it right.

I don't get the folks that are saying the cabinets are not square. There is not one single picture that shows that. All you can see in those pics is the FRONT and TOP of the counters/cabinets. Camilla, did you take any pics of the overhang edge with the range pulled out? Regardless, you did the right thing. Joseph is absolutely right - they cut the material incorrectly. Your fabricator is absolutely responsible.

Not to belabor the point here, but this picture shows an obviously out of square cabinet installation. If the cabinets were plumb and leveled correctly in all 3 directions, the gap would be even straight up and down. The stone followed the out of square cabinets. That's what a template does. It makes a model of the existing cabinets so the stone fits the cabinets.

Now, they should have checked it all for square, and refused to template at all, packed up their stuff, charged a trip charge and gone home. But this goes back to the GC allowing for a template to be called for when the cabinet guys hadn't done their job properly.

Where is your GC in all of this, and why is he not stepping up to the plate to resolve his sub's issues. The GC is where the buck stops.

Not plumb.

Plumb.

" this picture shows an obviously out of square cabinet installation. "

Huh? How are you seeing a cabinet out of square? That is the COUNTER - not the cabinet.

You don't know what process the fabricators followed. You have no idea how they came up with that cut. You are just assuming. That's why I asked for a picture of the back edge, with the range pulled out.

But when you make a cutout for an appliance, the cutout needs to be the shape of the APPLIANCE. (Similarly, when you make a cutout for a sink....)

From the pictures, I don't see any way to determine the squareness of the cabinets themselves. It's clear that the counter isn't square--because the range has straight sides and it's a V on both sides of the range. It's not possible to state with certainty what the cabinets are doing from that picture. We can't see the top lines of the base cabinets--we just can see the counter top and the range.

Camille confirmed that she measured the cabinets and the cabinets are square.

The distance between cabinets on right and left side of range are identical (the back measurements of the cabinets correlate exactly with the front measurements of the of the cabinets. They are plum and perfect

Assuming Camille measured the cabinets correctly (which I do assume), then issue is that the counter tops aren't square.

Camille, I wish you didn't have to go through this but I'm glad you are disputing the charges. Please keep us all posted.

bethohio3, exactly.

Cooks Kitchen, You do know that things appear to get closer together as they get further away in pictures right? Its called perspective in the art world.

"Joseph, what would you have done in this situation?"

You place a straightedge against the rear wall to eliminate any waves/dips then place a framing square against the straightedge and over/adjacent to the template, disregarding what the cabinets are doing. The tops are made square to the rear wall and parallel to each other. This method is foolproof.

It's an island, right? No wall to work off of?

hi Gen, yes it's an island

Hi Joseph thanks for responding, what course of action as a client would you have taken if things were handled as they were in my case. Would you have told the client that you would redo the counter tops? I would like to hear from someone who is sane and rational. thanks :)

It's a do-over if they can't fix it.

okay thanks for weighing in, I have a feeling this may require litigation.

I just don't understand why this would have to go to litigation. It's a clear issue of an incorrect cut. Don't people want to do good work anymore? WTH? I have had SO many issues with having to go behind supposed professionals, to check their work and it is darn near every time I find a problem. I just found a problem with my own new counters, and it could have been avoided with the simple use of a LEVEL. I just don't understand these companies today.

Don't people want to do good work anymore? My response to that based on much research to avoid potential problems and still getting problems even when I am willing to pay what it costs for a quality effort is "No, they do not."

I realize that my reaction is a generalization, but far too many in the building trades expect a customer to accept a result that they would not have in their own homes. Trades people who do great work and take pride in what they do are not easy to find, and using a general contractor is no guarantee of a quality effort.

Unfortunately, what rantontoo is saying is too true. And I see it even in million dollar plus homes.

cpartist, my brother actually builds 15 million dollar homes (Miami/Gold Coast) and he has told me many times that on his jobs, everything has to be PERFECT. He said his clients would tolerate nothing less. So I guess you just have to get lucky and find a person that has integrity about their work. It's really sad.

In the SF Bay I see exactly what rantontoo and cpartist describe. The land here is too valuable for the construction to matter as far as I can see. Developers put up houses that look good enough, check all the fashionable boxes and move on quickly. Workmanship and pride are not in the equation. My husband is an engineer and architect and he had to close his eyes and hold his breath when we bought our last house.

The marketplace is giving consumers exactly what they deserve. When you want your daughter to marry a carpenter or plumber instead of a doctor or lawyer, the quality problems in the building trades will disappear.

Everyone says they want quality, but they really want low price so there's money left in the budget for the fancy window treatments.

Joseph: I want quality and I am willing to pay for it....frustrating when I make that clear and do not get it when I prefer to pay time and materials.

So I guess you just have to get lucky and find a person that has integrity about their work. It's really sad.

I'm lucky that my supervisor has the integrity and with me has searched out better subs to do the work. I found my cabinet maker, and we both found my tile person and my finish carpenter because neither of us were satisfied with the workmanship that had been passed off by the other subs.

Everyone says they want quality, but they really want low price so there's money left in the budget for the fancy window treatments.

Sorry but I have to disagree. When one is paying high 6 or 7 figures for a house (especially in our neck of the woods, maybe not in CA or NYC), that isn't because they are trying to cut corners by getting low prices. It's because they expect for that money that we should get a quality product.

I also disagree, Joseph. I am absolutely willing to pay for quality workmanship. In fact, I have no desire at all for cheapo crap workmanship. I am picky. But I am no perfectionist. I do choose my battles. My BF rolls his eyes at me all the time - he almost hates doing stuff for me because he knows I am picky - he would never pay the prices I do, for the work I have done. And HE used to build homes and do home repair work. But if I can afford it, I don't see anything wrong with expecting quality workmanship. I am fine with shortcuts, as long as you are not compromising the work and the job/product. As far as I'm concerned, if you aren't willing to sign your name to your work, then I have no interest in hiring you.

Where is your GC in this and why isn't HE handling the issue rather than you dealing with these folks directly? They're his subs, right?

I'm really hoping OP had this done through a GC - that the countertop company was OP's GC's sub. If so, OP: just call your GC. Its not your problem, its your GCs. (I had 2 similar issues, once via GC's sub and once I hired directly. I am a lawyer and know the cost (not to mention hassle) of litigation: not going to happen, so I live with the 'hired-direct' mistake (which is countertop installer's dark gray fingerprints sealed into my new marble countertops). The GC issue? Corrected with an email to my GC (GC contacted the sub (glass shower wall/door), sub fixed the issue perfectly very quickly with a smile and apology.) It would be nice if they were as responsive to direct customers as GCs, but at least where I am (very hot reno market, HCOL) its just not the way it is. As PPs said: reno work here is done just 'good enough.' You do have to close your eyes a bit when you buy a home or pay for your reno work!

"Joseph: I want quality and I am willing to pay for it....frustrating when I make that clear and do not get it when I prefer to pay time and materials."

The problem is that there aren't enough of you, so there isn't enough work to support guys who will charge what they need to do the work the way it needs to be done. Although I love the work, I won't even propose stair work any more. Everyone talks that talk, but when they get the number, I don't get the call. I doubt the job gets done.

Frustrating? Let me tell you what's frustrating. Paying for leads and not getting a returned phone call. Doing excellent first rate work and only being able to work part time because I charge properly. Listening to people complain about construction workers and hearing nothing but Spanish on job sites because my own government won't defend my borders. That's frustrating.

Playing devil's advocate here, but how much time has passed since the fabricators installed the countertop?

I have an appt Monday for templating my new counters. The fabricators are insistent that every appliance/sink is on site for that. If they template according to those appliances, can I really fault them if down the road, another appliance doesn't fit properly? You mentioned that your previous stove had an overhang... did they know you were changing the appliance, and that your new one wouldn't have one? Was it already ordered, and just pending delivery, or have months, or even years, passed?

"... hearing nothing but Spanish on job sites because my own government won't defend my borders."

Just because someone speaks Spanish doesn't mean they're an illegal immigrant.

I'm not sure if he's tired of people making that complaint or making it himself....

I need to keep my mouth shut here, but stupidly, I am not.

Camilla Hayden, my understanding is that one should have all appliances and sinks in place before the granite people come out… having said that, a 30” space for a 30” range is 30”. Not angled, not crooked, not out of square as yours is. If one had to replace a 30” range with another 30” range (as happens from time to time), one should not have an angled gap to deal with. I just read 3 different installation manuals: the cutout for all 3 (2 different brands) is 30”. Clearly I haven’t read all install manuals on all 30” ranges, but those 3 were exactly 30” in width. I’m not a Pro, I don’t install granite or marble or quartz. But it seems to me this is where the fault lies: with the fabricators. I hope this is resolved at no additional expense to you, by the marble fabricators.

Joseph Corlett, LLC I understand what you are saying. If one looks for the cheapest prices, and takes the lowest or lower bids to save money, then one cannot expect the ‘best’ workmanship or quality. When the majority of people go the cheaper route (and many must these days to afford even basic things), those who do quality work and charge accordingly, suffer. OTOH, to assume most mistakes/shabby workmanship are due to cheaper costs would not be fair, as that is so often not the case these days.

Chess and cpartist, I understand what you are saying. When one pays for that good workmanship and quality, yet doesn’t get it, it’s more than frustrating. It’s costly. I agree with many - it seems this is more often the case than not these days. Fortunately, there are good people out there who care about the work they put forth. Figuring out who is who is not always as easy or straightforward as it seems, and even references or viewing previous work is not always a guarantee.

Fori & Gennifer B, I am an admirer of your posts, but perhaps not today. Tomorrow I will be again : - ) I’m not a peacemaker, but before this gets too political or harsh, before anyone decides they don’t like someone for whatever reason, please take each other into consideration… I have wonderful friends of a variety of nationalities, faiths, and political views (DH fits into one of those categories). In my line of work, I deal with all kinds of people: in every income bracket; a variety of nationalities. I do understand frustration due to illegal immigrants. I personally have experienced this myself, suffering financially with no recourse due to lack of legal status, and have 2 acquaintances who’ve lost their businesses due to the fact many people can and do hire work ‘cheaper’ if they hire illegally here – I feel if this happened to me and my family I’d be upset, and when one’s family is hurt for whatever reason or cause, one might lash out. I also have clients (people I work for), people I work with, and people I’ve hired who are of a variety of nationalities who are more consciences than ‘the average person’, and whom I now call friends due to our close business relationships. Note I did not say what nationality/faith/view the average person is. We all lead different lives, have different experiences.

My principal motto is ‘save for your future’. Today it is ‘lenience and empathy’. I do not direct this comment to any one person.

Did I just get on another pulpit? I’ve got to stop that. Peace, ya’ll!

hearing nothing but Spanish on job sites because my own government won't defend my borders.

No, the reason you hear only Spanish on job sites nowadays is because too many younger people think working with their hands is beneath them. They don't want to do actual hard work that building a house requires. And those who do, look for the easiest and fastest way to do something. (Yourself of course is excluded)

My fabulous tile work was done by two men who spoke Spanish and English.

My excellent stucco job was done by all men who spoke Spanish.

My paint job which looks excellent so far was done by men who speak Spanish and English.

My mason who only uses "American's" had so many mistakes it was a joke.

OTOH, to assume most mistakes/shabby workmanship are due to cheaper costs would not be fair, as that is so often not the case these days.

Exactly!

That is probably my chief complaint. I may have expected this from a shabby, fly by night company or just a few guys who decided they know how to cut marble one day, however, this company charged an absolute fortune to fabricate. I think over five thousand dollars warranted a beautifu, even cut. Not to mention that they chipped it as they brought it it in the door and had to make a repair right near the mouth of the sink (with epoxy of some kind) that left a yellowish tint.

Gen B, the fabricators knew we were changing ranges. Unfortunately, the delivery time for the range was much longer than expected. My question is... does it really matter though. Shouldn't the cut be straight either way. What if down the line, say in 5 years or so, you wished to change the range and they didn't make that particular model any longer? If they would have cut it straight it would've have solved a multitude of problems down the line. When the fabricator was here last tuesday he didn't want to say it, however, he alluded to the fact that the overhang on the old range provided a "safety net". I have a feeling that they chipped the side of the cut out when they were fabricating (because it's such a soft stone) and then decided they had to cut it like this to even it out. After he argued with me incessantly stating that "this is how they do it "standard procedure to cut the back smaller and the front larger", he then went on to say he followed the lines of the cabinet. I believe wholeheartedly that once he realized I wasn't buying the "this is how we always do it" story, he then decided to try a different angle (no pun intended) and blame the cabinet people. It was very upsetting. No apology, no accountability and no phone call back to discuss what they are willing to do.

Gen B, it's been a month since the fabricators were here

2manydiversions that is what I thought too. It's not like one 30" range is shaped completely different than another. My old range wasn't shaped like a V.

camilla, do you have a GC to work through?

ap999, unfortunately there was no GC on this part of the job. We purchased the stone and went with the same company to fabricate. They are very well known and have been in business for quite a while. I honestly think this was a case of them taking on WAY to much business and not having enough people to do the job. Everyone wants all the money but they sometimes forget you are only as good as the people you hire. They made appointment times and showed up late, forgot to bring certain things and had to come back. It was a circus in some ways.

For the record, I think the situation you're in sucks, and you seem to be handling it with a good attitude. I hope they step up and fix it, without having to go through litigation.

No matter if the cabinets are square or not (which they rarely are) each side should be parallel to one another. They shouldn't "V" . This a fabrication mistake.

I would call one more time and let them know that if its not fixed to your satisfaction you will be sure to leave appropriate yelp, Google, houzz, etc reviews and you will post their name on GW so all will know what shoddy work they do

Camilla: I feel your pain, and it stinks. It sounds nearly identical to my kitchen counter install (highly regarded local stone/install co., fiasco at install time, problems that are their fault).

I'm living with my counter's issues, but it bothers me daily. If I could do it again, I would have complained to them right away - like your issue it was their fault and they should fix it. And would have if I had gone through a GC that they are panicked about p-ing off.