"Alkaline" is a range- what is your number?

Have you determined that via soil test?

Do you see other Maples growing in your neighborhood?

They are more tolerant of high pH soils than any other maple species but there is a limit :-) Anything above 7.5 and you can expect to see chlorosis and slower growth. "Thrive" would not be the word I'd use..........

Well, don't know exact PH, but the red oak I planted is doing well... the maples that grow in my neighborhood are mostly Norways and they are not doing well (not a chlorosis issue but rather some fungus or pest). In the woodlots and surrounding conservation forests, acer rubrums grow and seem healthy. But our region is on the alkaline side...my hydrangeas are pink.

What other comparable cultivars are there? Looking for excellent, long fall color (red, orange) and something that will be at least somewhat forgiving of soil type. I have nice moist spot for a red.. could even consider hybrid (freemani)

As I stated, the red maples is the most forgiving or tolerant of a range of soil types for that genus. If you have questions about the pH of your soil - and it is very easy to test for - Acer rubrum would be the one I'd select. A freeman maple would be next on my list as they will inherit some of that adaptability from their rubrum parentage.

So red maple is the most tolerant to alkaline soil? I was under the impression it was silver maple and that the mild tolerance a freeman maple had to alkaline was from the silver parentage.

just picked up a 1 gallon red maple (not a cultivar) for $5 at Lowes... couldn't resist... its definitely acer rubrum as I can tell from the leaves. One leaf has a touch of fall color already and it's a "hot red" so hope that this means the tree will take on a good red color. I realize that my soil will have a lot to do with this though.. Now I have to figure out where to plant it. If I can't fit it I will plant it on conservation lands...

Cool thanks, GG. I will look into the Shantung. I'm growing a couple bigtooth maples that are doing well (supposed to be able to handle alkaline with ease).

Acer rubrum does horrible in even slightly alkaline conditons. I cringe when the garden centers bring in containers of them every spring. Then you Pin Oak too...what?

I had burgundy belle, sun valley and red rocket. I had to remove them after they became established as they became clhorortic and vigor dropped significantly. 7.3 ph in a sandy loam.

Silver maples do phenomal in very alkaline soils (low to mid 8s).

Freeman maple is your best bet for reliable red fall color if your looking for maple shade tree. They are somewhat difficult to garden under as they age.

Red oak is tolerant of slightly alkaline soils and can actually thrive.

It's always good to have first hand knowledge of these matters as above ^^ :-)) But that does contradict pretty much all the literature about red maples.

From the USFS: "Red maple can probably thrive on a wider range of soil types, textures, moisture, pH, and elevation than any other forest species in North America "

"A. rubrum does very well in a wide range of soil types, with varying textures, moisture, pH, and elevation, probably more so than any other forest tree in North America. A. rubrum's high pH tolerance means that it can grow in a variety of places, and it is widespread along the eastern United States. It grows on glaciated as well as unglaciated soils derived from the following rocks: granite, gneiss, schist, sandstone, shale, slate, conglomerate, quartzite, and limestone. Chlorosis can occur on very alkaline soils, though otherwise its pH tolerance is quite high. Moist mineral soil is best for germination of seeds.

Let the debate begin!!! Saw a nice Franks Red at a box store and 50% off.... tempting as I hear the cultivars have more reliable color quality

In the woodlots and surrounding conservation forests, acer rubrums grow and seem healthy

Autumn color of red maple is affected by alkalinity even where it is otherwise able to grow more or less normally. What kind of coloring do you see on the nearby wild trees?

I will check... It's too early and cant remember last year's color change! The sugar maples are abundant here so you have to look carefully into the canopy to make sure you're not mistaking them. I will say that a red maple (no idea of the cultivar) is planted on a home down the street from me and it doesn't look that hearty/heathy... not a thick canopy of leaves and the color is not great (in the 3 years I've been here) - it's pale reddish/yellow color... nothing I'd want to plant.

Anyhow, all this fuss over the a. Rubrum and i might end up planting something else altogether! Now I am thinking black gum, particularly Nyssa Tupelo Tower as it seems to be cold hardy and the narrower growth habit might actually be less overwhelming down the road... plus, the colors are supposedly very reliably beautiful every year... The spot is periodically wet (close to water table) and even in dry summers it's a moist spot. My understanding is that the Nyssa like moist (even wet) sites

Nyssa is amother one that is a bit tough on alkaline soils.

Had species and Sheri's Cloud. Both lacked any vigor after several years.

How about a Hot Wings Maple? Drought and alkaline soil tolerant. Bright red seed and fall color.

GG you'd think they had a typo with red maple. It's native range is extensive but it struggles quite a bit as a landscape tree in alkaline soils. There are many examples of city plantings that are in rough shape. Look at as bad as the cherry plantings.

Never heard of Hot Wings Maple. What about acer griseum? that's a really interesting tree... not too large either...

BTW, Waas, they plant a ton of reds around here in parking lots, boulevards, etc.. but they may be the hybrid (redpointe? autumn blaze?) - what ever they are, the colors are good....

Well I just took a stroll through a heavily wooded conservation area with an extensive trail network.. gorgeous trails.. and we are already getting some color change here in Ontario as it has been a cool summer and very cool september so far (38F last night and a very light patchy frost on rooftops). The sugar maples AND reds are just starting to turn a touch. Our region, as I've said, is a limestone basin and we have alkaline soil everywhere here.. and Gardengal is right - the reds do color nicely in alkaline soil.. Came across a few with spectacular red - almost glowing in the dark red... so it appears that the reds in my region are ok with the PH above 7.