It seems that sweetgum trees are more tolerant than pin oaks. There are decent sized ones in downtown Midlothian, Tx. Pin oaks cannot grow well there at all.

My vote off local to me examples only is sweetgum also.

Pretty sure Pin Oak might even be considered acid-loving, so I vote on the Sweet Gum.

Well, I managed to kill my sweetgum in about 3 years.. it was clorothic and sick looking all the time.. and the pH on my soil is about 7.5.. then a pin oak is a no no...

thanks for your help

I wonder if, like many trees, it has to do with seed provenance.

Providence could be all the more important if you consider the Rotundiloba form of sweet gum, to avoid the spiky balls. So the question becomes, what about that one in particular?

Unless no one using the yard likes to go barefoot.

Per the link I'm providing, sweet gum is only recommended for acid soils as chlorosis develops in soils with pH > 7.5.

Any reason you're stuck with these 2 choices? Some oaks better tolerate higher pH than pin oak, from what I recall. Aren't there some 'local provenance' Shumard Oak in Texas that can handle higher pH? If so, would one work in your area?

Richard.

Here is a link that might be useful: Here's a link to a PDF on sweet gum.

hairmetal, I was wondering the same thing.... if I recall correctly, somebody on this forum mentioned that native pin oaks where doing well in slightly alkaline soil, whereas planted trees (next to natives) where chlorotic.

Richard, I'm not really stuck with these two choices. I'm a collector, so what I'm looking for is one of each..... I'm not even sure if it will thrive here in the southwest... assuming I had lower pH... but it's worth trying. I really like the species' branch configuration.... quite different from other red oaks.
Shumard oak does very well here.. one of my trees put 5' this year....

Sweet-gum grows in southern California, where it provides a fall color effect more or less otherwise unseen in the general landscape.

If you look at the associated zone map you can see where in New Mexico Sunset thinks it will grow.

Here is a link that might be useful: Liquidambar styraciflua - American Sweet Gum - Plant Finder- Sunset.com

This post was edited by bboy on Thu, Jul 4, 13 at 13:42

Thanks bboy,
I've only seen a couple of sweetgums around here, and all of them look chlorotic. I believe sunset maps are based on weather rather than soils..... I'm sure weather wise it will perform very well providing additional water, the real problem is alkaline soil....

For Japanese maple the Sunset Western Garden Book (and maybe the Sunset Publishing web site) has in the past suggested periodically flushing the salts out of the soil with heavy watering. Has also been said there that you can judge the suitability of a neighborhood for them by looking to see if any evergreen azaleas are making it in nearby plantings.

The thing about the sweetgum is probably that is has some tolerance for minerals because it grows in lowlands that may sometimes flood. But it is a humid climate tree, so the level of buildup that can occur on desert soils may fall outside of its tolerance range.

bboy,

thanks for the ideas... something I haven't really paid attention to... but azaleas are not very common around here.
You're right about sweetgum being a tree better suited for humid climates... just thought it should be worth the try. I'll try to find a pin oak from its westernmost range.. not really holding my breath though

We know it doesn't need a humid climate because of all the sweet-gum in California. And apparently it has some tolerance for arid climate soils for the same reason. But there is a lot of such stuff planted in California etc. that has been getting by because of the history of liberal watering there, in order to get such plants to live.

A lot of species will do fine in arid locations... you just need to provide enough water to sustain the species' growing requirement... now, whether or not it is worth "wasting" precious resources growing such species that's a different question... which I sometimes do to myself..... should I try something different.. or grow natives.... so I try both..
Also, how does Nyssa sylvatica compares to sweetgum in tolerance to alkaline soils...

Agree that pin oaks are a no-no in alkaline soils, and I would not even attempt it. If you are looking for an oak, swamp white would be worth considering. It is the most flexible oak for soil type and is both wet and drought tolerant. Breeders are using swamp white as a parent on most new oak introductions.

I would not try Nyssa in a dry + alkaline environment. I have seen Nyssa do OK in somewhat dry conditions but I have read that it is sensitive to soil pH. Absolutely love this tree, though.

One tree to consider would be Ginkgo. They are OK with alkaline and moderately drought tolerant.

Hi Hamburglar, I was hoping a western source may do OK. I have a lot of other oak species doing well. Burr and shumards really like it here...but I was interested in the pin oak because of its shape and branch structure...
I have a small Nyssa that will go into the ground next year... we'll see if it makes it....
Ginkgo is a species that does well here. One year it may grow 2', the next 10".... very irregular growth pattern.