I'm with uroboros up there. I like to know as much as possible about the seedlings...operative word being 'like'. That said, I have some Dan Bachman seedlings here that I know nothing about. I think he regularly sells his seedlings. I have a seedling that the seller Perennialist on the LA sent as a bonus...it's really pretty. I can't remember right now if I have others. Of course, the hundreds and hundreds of my own...lol! Someone said once somewhere that if you get a chance to buy some hybridizer's seedlings, you should go for it to really advance your own program (think of folks who have bought some of Larry Grace's). I think, too, a little known thing (at least to me) was how many hybridizers do sell seedlings. At lot of them, you have to actually go and visit them to know that. Some hybridizers themselves talk about seedlings they've gotten from others. It's interesting how our views evolve on things. Now that I am starting my fourth year growing seedlings, I know how much work they are! I think this (famous last words) will be my last 'big' (for me, at least) year of seed starting as room is just nonexistent. It takes me two to three years to see bloom. That said, if I found someone offering a seedling of a cross I like, why wouldn't I want to jump ahead those years?? On the other side, when I get ready to cull...because of space (first) and because a plant doesn't work toward what I want...and if it is an otherwise fine plant, why shouldn't I get some compensation for all that effort? As long as people are clear about it...seedling...whether it is all or not...bloomed or not, etc.....I don't see the problem there. I think problems come later if individuals try to sell them or give them garden names and sell them. But, the thing is...people already do that! The horse has already left the barn! If you're an AHS Display Garden or aspire to that, you might want to be careful. But, if like most people, you just want to enjoy beautiful flowers, who cares. I mean, I know plenty of people who don't know the names of their other perennials and it doesn't bother them. Look at all the people who post on here trying to find out the name of a daylily (pretty hopeless in most cases). For the big guys, most don't keep their intros around for more than a few years because they know people resell them (for less). I don't really think they're threatened by a seedling market as the folks buying those are probably not their customers anyway. I think the big guys (and girls) deserve their money, knowing how much goes into it...however, they're out there really advancing the flower. Most of the rest of us are just hobbyists. I think there is plenty of room for everyone. The newest and best genetics command top dollar (as the new everything does). I can see how hard it is to make money (most of us clearly aren't in it for that...lol), but I'd sure hate to see folks like Paul Owen fail. We need all kinds of different people producing all kinds of different flowers. I thought his offering flowers for people to name was rather brilliant. I mean, I've read about people visiting in Florida and getting daylilies named after them. Not everyone gets that chance. Where I live, there probably isn't anyone in 30 miles who would willingly pay $100 for a daylily. However, they'd probably buy unnamed blooming seedlings for what are bargain prices (not that they appreciate that!). I think for those of us that are collectors, we're going to continue to collect. I still see lots of green lawn everywhere...lol...so there are plenty of folks. Some will eventually move up the ladder to pricey ones (like a lot of us)...others will be just as happy with their $5 bargains. It's all good. Let me just conclude with the thought that if you belong to the AHS, a local club (or two or three), the robin, hang out here, etc, and have zillions of labels all over your yard.....you are not the 'average' daylily person! For those folks, registration has meaning. (I thought I was concluding...lol) I remember vising Mr. Benzinger's garden on what was probably his final open garden (Buttered Popcorn, among others)...and I don't think he had any registered daylilies that I could see. Had a sign up for you to see from the road...something like "Daylilies $5"....and you walked around and picked out what you wanted....they were all seedlings. I still have one (oh yeah! forgot about that one!), a nicely speckled diploid (that I had to figure out for myself!). It's appealing to me because it is something I might work with. I mostly prefer...without a doubt...registered daylilies, but that doesn't mean I don't like to play with seedlings!

Brock, if anybody is guilty of writing too much, it is I, appreciate your input on the matter. I believe you are correct, it's Chinese or Japanese roof iris aka crested iris (did some googline). I did see zone 5b somewhere which is the colder limit for them, and I definitely think there is a difference b/t 5a and 5b, but I might be able to squeak some things through anyway. Now that is distressing that they may not survive the winter. I just set them out this afternoon, new area where there is no protection, and will have to mulch (or something) for the winter and expect to lose them. There are too many similar in this class to know exactly what to expect. If they make it through the summer, I could pot a few up and bring them inside, but that defeats my purpose as I have enough already to winter inside. They look so nice with that pretty foliage. Yes, I could move some, but I've got scads more plants waiting to be set out. Yes, I agree that some, not all, mail-order retailers exaggerate the zone business because they would lose sales. A topic for another time, tired after setting out 24 plants, used my bulb planter which made things go a little faster. I think I had my tiller set to till and not cultivate, oh well, it had gotten so bad so fast, it needed the extra power, but I'm worried if I could have compromised the roots forming on the Austins I set in there ealier. They should recover.

Sprengle-when I looked at the topknob website I also couldn't find the knob-but when I googled it I found it at the website below with Homeclick. THe picture is not as shiny as the real deal. http://www.homeclick.com/web/catalog/product_detail.aspx?pid=41383&chnl=cse&ven=googlebase&cat=Hardware%3ACabinet%20Hardware&brnd=Top%20Knobs&itm=41383M201%7CContessa%20Knob%20-%20Old%20English%2C%201-1%2F4''%20-%20M201&CAWELAID=167014875http://www.homeclick.com/web/catalog/product_detail.aspx?pid=41383&chnl=cse&ven=googlebase&cat=Hardware%3ACabinet%20Hardware&brnd=Top%20Knobs&itm=41383M201%7CContessa%20Knob%20-%20Old%20English%2C%201-1%2F4''%20-%20M201&CAWELAID=167014875

Arlene, I wish you the best with your wonderful new hobby! My FD is grafted, I ordered it from Edmunds who no longer carries it. I have begun to grow several own root HT's and the results look promising. There are many good HT roses that aren't available grafted. Some other very fragrant HT's I have are Tiffany, Firefighter, Pink Peace, Memorial Day, Perfume Delight, Grande Dame, Beverly, Francis Meilland, Big Momma, Bewitched, Chrysler Imperial, Cinnamon Dolce, Double Delight, Big Momma and Buxom Beauty, all grafted. I also have La France, which is own root, heavenly fragrance! An own root granfiflora, English Perfume is wonderful. A couple of other grandifloras that I have which are fragrant are Twilight Zone and Fragrant Plum. Probably way more info than you needed or wanted, but I enjoy sharing. Austin roses are new to me, I have a couple, there are several I'm interested in, they are beautiful.