I have read how to test for them but I've never done it before - I'm going to do that this weekend. Although i thought they were down in the soil area. At least if it is that then I'm off the hook for paying for a remedy.

Cramol, what's going on with the situation? any news???

lisa-marie, i've been gone for about two weeks on vacation and just returned. before i left i check to see if chinch bugs were present and they were not. i also spent some time raking up the dead grass in hopes that it would restore some growth. it looks like it didn't get any worse so that pretty much validates that bugs were not the issue. this had to be some type of fertilization treatment issue. i told some more pictures with some close-ups and i can still see some particles from their treatment still laying in the ground. it's been about a month now - i would think those would have dissipated. here are some more pictures and you can see how pronounced the difference is between my yard and my neighbors right at the fence line

It's strange because it's clearly divided by the fence line (which is not sitting on the grass) and your neighbors yard is fine.

Chinch bugs and fungus wouldn't adhere to a fence line, unless of course your neighbor treated preventatively for both. Why don't you ask him/her?

If it's neither of those, then it has to be something the company did....you said they applied "green up treatment" in the middle of July and you had a string of 90 degree days.....it could be they applied too much and it wasn't watered in and burned the lawn......

ugh so sorry, That's just awful, esp that you don't know if it was the people taking care of your landscaping, I'd be Irate, You should have them come and reseed it all for Free.

I am irate. It's on my mind to the point where i don't even want to go outside to look at it. Moreover, my lawn care company is just holding to the point where they say it's most likely debris in my yard that is burning the roots. My plan is exactly as you say. I'm going to tell them I want to have this all reseeded this fall for no cost (since the 5K I paid last year seemed to be wasted). If they don't agree, I have no choice but to start posting full reviews on their websites with pictures (and I have not shortage of those). Thanks for all the help everyone. Once this is reseeded I will spend the winter studying how to care for a lawn myself and most likely be back here with questions.

If they are unwilling to reseed at no charge you might mention taking them to court. $5k is a lot of money.

I hope it all works out, This forum is so helpful to me, so many Nice people that help! Now I know to put a fungicide down early spring, all these yrs thought it was dog pee from the neighbors dog that is always loose, and i'd pop some sod in the areas, and it wouldn't get worse but this summer was soooo wet as you know here in Pittsburgh, I am just like you when my lawn was looking real bad, I was so upset I couldn't look at it...Good luck to you!!! Let us know how it goes

That's bizarre as heck. From your earlier pics to your recent ones. It seems some of the dead zones have linear boundaries, like they applied something that damaged it. However being summer and a new lawn, fungus is probably the most likely suspect. If they didn't apply a fungicide, they are probably not doing their job.

One of the most frustrating things is that the lawn care company owner is sticking to his "could be debris under the yard from new construction" story where it clearly shows that it is something isolated to what was done to my yard. Thanks to everyone for your help. I sent him an email today requesting a total reseeding at no cost. We'll see what he says?????

I'm sorry but as you said if you live in a development that is fairly new construction all the lawns would be suffering the same from debris under the soil.

Is that even a real thing? Have you looked it up to see if that actually happens?

He is covering his ass so as to not have to redo it. I suggest you speak to a lawyer asap and bring what documents and agreements you have. I guarantee you paying a lawyer $250 to send them a letter will get them to reseed.

How's the drainage? It looks like there's a low spot on your side of the fence.... and it looks like all the water from the other side flows into that low spot. Could be you need to look @ drainage.

in your earlier post, you mentioned it occurred in a span of 2 days. Pythium can ravage a lawn literally overnight. It can spread by water, too... meaning that's spreads fastest with heavy rain and runoff. You also said the company you hired applied fertilizer in June. That's like storing gas next to a fire. Most fungicides don't do anything to pythium.

The drainage in the back corner of the lawn is not the greatest. It was worse before they did the renovation last year and when they put down all the new top soil they said they would grade it better. I don't totally blame them for the grading because it was pretty bad before. However, there are other spots in the yard that are fine and don't receive standing water that died out as well. With heavy rains in the spring there were parts that were swampy for days but it didn't seem to affect it much. With the way my yard is situated I think it would be pretty hard to put drainage in. I was hoping that with the renovation the soil would accept the rain much better. I'm not too knowledgeable when it comes to soil composition but from what I read it seems as if you continue to add organic material each year and ensure you continue to aerate, your lawn would be much more open to accepting water. Another reason why I need to study up on a lot more. The thing I keep coming back to though, I doubt pythium would hold tot he boundaries of my fence line as well.

As far as the rocks under the soil excuse. Last year when he came out to look at my lawn, i showed him some parts of my front yeard that were dying out and had a tool where he was able to easily probe down and wouldn't you know it, there was a rock just a few inches under the soil. So in that regard, I believe that heated rocks and shallow root systems can kill the grass. However, I'm not sure why he thinks I'm going to buy that excuse in my back yard. Anyway, I sent him an email yesterday. He responded last night quickly saying that he received my email but it was a busy day and he'll get back to me soon. Not sure if he needed more time to prepare a response but I guess we'll see.

The problem I see here is that a landscaper has come here and seeded a grass type I feel is inappropriate for the area. Why? Because perennial ryegrass is easy to germinate and you will get a mature looking lawn a month after planting. There are only a few parts of the country where PRG is recommended as one of the predominant grass types. But landscapers just want a fast lawn and feel they can then wash their hands of it, having satisfied their end of the contract. IMHO, the company you hired are no better than a bunch of swindlers. I doubt you will get any satisfaction from them and I would bet you have no solid legal recourse either.

Mishmosh - Well that is very upsetting. What would be the optimal grass seed for my lawn in southwest pennsylvania? Could i overseed with that each year? And if you have time to answer, why is PRG not a good selection? Thank you for all your feedback!

While you wait to hear back from mishmosh, I can tell you what I think they were getting at. I don't have a lot of personal experience with it, but a lot of people say that prg is really a temperate climate grass, meaning it browns out very early in summer in most of the u.s. except for up north, and dies off in winter in the northern states, so it's really only sustainable in the pnw, where it doesn't get too hot or too cold. Other cool season options more suitable for your area are Kentucky bluegrass and tall fescue.

+1 Alex. you have full sun. i would do a blend of TTTF with a small amount of KBG. where grass is not well suited, it dies out from cold, heat, drought or disease.

Are you talking about completely ripping out all of the PRG or just overseeding with the TTTF and KBG year after year?

Tough call. Only you can make that decision. If I had your property and an irrigation system, I'd just round it all up, scalp after it's dead, and reseed. You might have to rake some of the areas to ensure soil contact.

Is there a contract or receipt of any kind that states what you paid for and what kind, if any, guarantee they made on their work?

For example, if you just have a receipt that says "Lawn redo: cost: $5000"....well, that's not going to hold any water. However, if they gave you a list that says:

"re-seed, re-grade, new topsoil, etc.etc....maintain lawn for one year, treatments include etc. etc...." I would consider asking a lawyer about it IF they refuse to do anything about it.

cramol I just more thoroughly read your posts and it's pretty clear to me this company is completely responsible. It really doesn't matter what it is, when you hire a lawn care company to maintain your yard, they become completely responsible. Stop doing business with them immediately and see what you can do about reimbursement. In the meantime decide where you want to go from here. This year you still might have enough time to do a heavy dethatching and reseed over the bad spots, unless they applied any post emergent within the last month or any pre emergent within the last 4 months, in which case you'll have to wait til next year.

I would be surprised if any landscaper would warranty a new stand past 90 days. Of course, they always have exceptions. If they deem you negligent in proper watering for instance. I would bet that acts of nature including insects and fungus would be exclusions. I feel bad for you Cramol. $5k is a huge amount of money. It's probably why most of us here take it upon ourselves to do the work. You could probably reseed yourself for $300 in seed and a couple weekends of your time.

mishmosh-

I totally agree; not only is he getting a raw deal, I've seen many get the same.

I tried Lawn Doctor for 6 months years ago and realized it was B.S.

If someone is willing and able to do the the research and work, you can do it all yourself for a fraction of the cost.

Yup. Nowadays the only thing holding you back is if your too busy, which many people are. But if you have time you can do lots of things yourself with Google, forums like this, and YouTube if you're motivated and interested.

Totally Agree, I couldn't fathom hiring anyone to do my lawn for me, I'd be too nervous, I see them doing my neighbors and they just are so careless, It does not take much time to put down fertilizer yourself and cut once a week and weed wack, but that's just me, I don't have the money to spend and if I did I still wouldn't do it, its my hobby I enjoy being out with my lawn I am kinda obsessed with my lawn ;) Lol ( but those who know me on here know that )

Hey all. Believe me, I hear what you are saying. I have always maintained my own lawn since I bought my first house 15 years ago. Even with my new house that I just built a few years back, I laid down 5,000 sq ft of sod with a friend. I really love taking care of my own lawn. But when my lawn was completely ravaged by chinch bugs I knew that I had to completely replace everything. And given the fact that my soil was horrible to begin with I knew that I wanted to really start off with a better foundation which is why I paid someone to do it. Also, since I invested that much money I wanted it to be established before I turned it over to me for maintenence (since I was completely blindsided by insect damage - didn't even know that could happen to a lawn that fast). The goal was always to start maintaining it myself once it was established and insect free.

Anyway - I heard back from the company and he agreed to comply with my request. They will be coming out to aerate and overseed my yard at no cost. I'm going to recommend that he use TTTF grass seed since it seems to fit well in my area and lawn traffic characteristics. Are there other things I should make sure he does? Do I make sure he covers the lawn with mushroom compost? Thanks again to all for the help.

Here is a picture from yesterday and what my lawn looks like now. It has somewhat recovered from last month but there's definitely some permanent damage. I think the fact that it looks better than last month shows that the "rocks under the soil" theory is not true.

When should I request this overseeding to take place? I've read that TTTF takes a lot longer to germinate so should i start that in the next few weeks? Thanks!!

hmmm. it would almost be better to do things yourself. you could order up some nice seed at the Hogan Company, and spread it yourself. TTTF germinates relatively fast and easily.

but what if the landscaper buys a cheap bag of Kentucky 31 tall fescue. you would be screwed. maybe you could ask specifically what they plan to put down?

but you are right, it does seen to have recovered. at least you have that going for you.

well, i want to try to at least recoup some of the cost i paid and if I can get them out there doing all that work at least I'll feel like I'm getting some back. I will make sure I discuss the seed with him. Is there a premium brand of TTTF that is recommended? what about the top dressing? is it still ok to have them do that? I know it worked out well last year but then again things aren't always what them seem (especially when I'm as uneducated with overall lawn health as I am right now).

You might want to help him buy good seed to be sure he doesn't continue to mess with you.

You said you had chinch bugs wipe out your entire lawn. I'm skeptical. Chinch bugs are HOT weather creatures that will get a start at the hottest part of the soil, usually a corner of a hot driveway and hot sidewalk, and then progress inward away from the hot spots. Rarely do they get far before the micro climate becomes too cool for them. And in Pittsburgh? Maybe as far north as Atlanta they might take out an entire lawn, but it would be pretty rare in Pittsburgh.

lisa-marie said, "This forum is so helpful to me, ...Now I know to put a fungicide down early spring," If she got that from this forum, I'm not doing my job. You should never put down a fungicide, or insecticide for that matter, in anticipation of getting a disease or insects. These materials are so destructive to the health of the soil they should only be used as needed and then as sparingly as possible. Two of the key components to healthy soil are fungi and insects. Wiping those out is sort of like wiping out plants and mammals and expecting the Earth to go on as usual.

yrs I agree take advantage of their service. Aeration and top dressing would be great. Any seeds that fall into the aeration holes probably won't survive. See if you can find a locally available tall fescue blend.

Actually Alex, in practice, seeds that fall into the aeration holes grow better. you can see this effect clearly on thin lawns that were aerated then overseeded.

Landmark seed and turf sells tttf top rated ntep

Hey all. Just posting some updates since I last checked in. I was able to get the company to come out and overseed for free. I thought i was in luck with the weather but then all of a sudden, two straight weeks of weather in the 80s and even reaching close to 90! I will take pictures tonight to show the progress but I fear that it hasn't taken that well. They did not throw down any top dressing after overseeding. They said that churning up all the plugs would be sufficient. They did aerate the heck out of it and even tilled up some of the really bare areas. After about 10 days I didn't really see any action and could still see a lot of seed just laying on the top of the ground. At that point I went out and got about 12 bags of mushroom compast to at least provide it with a little more protection in the super bare areas. The bare areas have responded ok but I'm still not seeing the thinned out areas responding as i have hoped. He overseeded with TTTF and I confirmed that is what he used last year for my lawn reno. I have been watering twice a day for about 2.5 weeks now with my goal being to keep the ground/seed moist for as long as I can but with this heat and me not getting home from work until 5:30ish, it definitely dries out during most days. I have a few questions. What should be my next step? Could the heat be delaying things and once it cools off, the seed may start to fill in better or should I assume that if it hasn't sprouted by now it's not going to? It looks like the weather will finally turn cooler on Thursday this week. Should I buy some more grass seed and overseed again? Or should I put down some milorganite? I'm looking for advice as to how I should plan out my next few months and get my lawn ready for winter before it goes dormant.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!!

Hmmm......yeah, 10 days with nothing is a bad sign.

Not even a little tiny bit of germination anywhere?

Pics would be useful.

It was sporadic at best but once i covered it up it got a lot better. I'll grab pictures tonight. Does seed go bad in the ground or once it cools off would it have a chance to germinate if it didn't already?

Here are some pictures. At first glance it doesnt look too bad but when u get closer to the thin areas you can see how it doesnt look like the overseeding worked. Now im not sure it it was due to the prolonged hot weather or it was just a bust. Im tempted to just take a vaca day tomorrow and do the whole thing again while we still have some fall left.

Ok not horrible!

Throw more seed down now and continue to keep it moist.

Mid October should give you good results.

Would a top dressing of mushroom compost be optimal? Is that the best covering for new seed? I plan on throwing more seed down today. I think Im going to run the mower through gently so that it wont get too long before the new seed germinates.

Also, should i thrown down any starter fertilizer for a boost?

Mow first, then seed.

Starter fertilizer won't hurt.

Well after my second round of overseeding this fall it looks like I was able to revive my lawn. If you followed my thread history, you will see that I was able to convince a lawn care company to come out and overseed my lawn at no cost because I believe they were responsible for killing large portions of my lawn. They came out and aerated and overseeded but after about 3 weeks, the results were less than desirable. I decided to overseed again and this time throw down some covering (compressed paper pellets) to help keep it moist and protected from the sun and birds. After a good 5 weeks of 5:00am wake up calls I think I was able to get it going again. Not super thick in some spots but I'm optimistic it will continue to improve with a good 3-4 weeks left in the growing season. My question to the board: is there anything I should put down on my lawn that would benefit it heading into the winter knowing that it has been newly seeded. I really want to move away from chemicals in my yard and plan to educate myself somewhat fierce over the winter. But for now, would a dose of milorganite help? Anything else? Pics below and thanks for all the input throughout the summer!

Wow.

That is miraculous.

Congratulations!

Put down fertilizer in November....you're done until Spring.

NICE

I love a happy ending. Congrats on bringing her back to life. Hopefully next year is less stressful for you. I was biting my nails reading this thread.

Joe BB - When you say "fertilizer", do you mean just use milorganite? Is that sufficient?

Thanks Jesse H! I was in nail biting mode all year long! Now maybe I can focus on getting them to re-grow as well ;)

One other thing I didn't mention is that there were a substantial number of weeds that filled in while my bare spots were healing. Should I wait until next spring to see what comes up or spot treat them now?

Winter Lawn Care Tips

Winter Lawn Care Tips for a Better Spring

The winter is when you spend the least amount of time thinking of your lawn. Unless you live in an area that is relatively warm all year long, chances are you have put the lawn mower away and are ready for a few months of relaxation before you have to start the lawn maintenance routine again.

There are a few things you can do during even the harshest winter that can ensure a beautiful, lush yard once spring rolls around again.

Fertilizing in the Winter

Late fall or early winter are the best times to fertilize cool season grasses. Since the majority of the lawns in North America are made from these grasses, like Bermuda and bluegrass, it is a good bet your yard has a typical cool season blend.

Before the first freeze, give your lawn a thorough fertilizing to replace all of the nutrients that can be lost from the soil during the hot summer months. Once the weather turns cold, the fertilizer will remain in the soil and feed your lawn’s roots all winter long.

When spring comes your lawn will be full of healthy, lush, green grass that has been feeding on good fertilizer nutrients underneath the snow.

Mowing Strategies

During the last month of the summer you should gradually lower the cutting base of your lawn mower each time you mow the lawn. Slowly cutting your grass shorter will allow it to winter well without shocking it by cutting it all off at once.

If you leave your lawn too tall during the winter months it will be prey to field mice and other burrowing animals that want a warm place to sleep. Mice can destroy large parts of your lawn by building nests. They create dead spots where they spend all of their time as well as pulling up large amounts of grass to build their structures.

Make sure your grass is as short as possible at the end of the season. Short grass also protects any new growth that may be more fragile near the end of the growing season.

Keep it Clean

It is easy for items to be left on the lawn during the long, cold winter when no one goes outside very often. Stray logs, toys, and even lawn furniture can be accidentally overlooked before the first snow comes.

Make sure that you clear the lawn of all objects after you mow it for the last time of the year. Do an occasional sweep of the lawn every couple of weeks during the winter, as well.

If an object is left on the grass during cold weather and snowfall it can create large dead spots because of the weight of the object. In the spring the grass in that area will be stunted and thinner than the rest of the yard.

Avoid Excessive Lawn Traffic

When the grass is brown and short it can be easy for people to forget that it shouldn’t be walked on. Try to prevent very much foot traffic on your winter lawn. Grass is relatively resilient, but it will have a difficult time recovering if a path becomes well worn across the lawn.

• Keep your sidewalks cleared of ice and snow so that you and your guests won’t be tempted to cut across the yard very often.
• Never allow anyone to park a truck or a car on your lawn. Even the smallest vehicle will leave impressions in the soil and kill off the grass that is underneath the tires. Using the lawn as a parking lot is the fastest way to kill the good grass and make room for crabgrass and other types of weeds.

Prepare in the Fall

There really is not much lawn care that needs to be done during the cold months of winter. If you properly prepare the lawn during the fall, it will be fine until the warm days of spring arrive once more.

• Make sure you aerate, fertilize, and mow the lawn before the first freeze of the season.
• Rake away any dead leaves that may have fallen and collected on your yard to avoid wet spots that can become mossy or moldy.
• Keep the lawn cleared of debris and help everyone in the family respect the yard while it is dormant.

Once you have taken care of everything that needs to be done during the fall you will be ready to enjoy a nice cozy winter indoors with your family before lawn care season begins again in the spring.

https://www.southernstates.com/articles/fertilizing-lawn-fall.aspx