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For an East-facing Wall with Viking Queen......

Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley

6 years ago

which of these might be best? This is an 18' wall facing due
east, so morning sun only until about 1:30pm. It is total shade in the
PM. I have a selection of Hybrid Musks that I "accidentally" bought and
wonder if any of them could be used here. I have a Viking Queen which is doing OK there, but I've removed Sugar Moon, Heathcliff and will soon be taking out a Falstaff growing up the wall, as it was far too shady for them. (Don't worry, they're going to sunnier spots once they've recuperated.)

It could be used as a climber, but should ideally reach at least 5'
tall. I'm most concerned with BS, color compatibility, repeat bloom and
thorns. The choices are: Felicia, Belinda, Penelope, Bubble Bath, Lavender Lassie, Sally Holmes, Parade, cl. Pinkie. I also have what I believe is Zephy from
a cutting I took last year. Does anyone in a similar BS pressure area
grow any of these? I guess I'm looking for which one does the best in
shade or is the least impacted by it.

If this isn't the best forum to post it in, I'll move it over to the Rose Forum. Thank you you for any advice.

Featured Answer

Lisa Adams

6 years ago

I just got back to this thread, Vap. I'm sorry for being a slow poke. I just went out and took a couple of pictures of Bubble Bath and Felicia. The bed doesn't look great. I need to tear out some annuals that are past their prime, and my hydrangea is about done. It's just been hot, and I'm in slow mo.

Bubble Bath in only morning sun.

Felicia's growth habit is difficult to see in these photos, sorry. She is also very sprawling, more so than others Felicia's. I'm allowing her to sprawl for now. As she puts on more lengthy canes, I'll try arching her over the arches. Right now, she's a just a tad to short, and would block the open arches.

Both Bubble Bath and Felicia together, in this last photo below. Lisa

All these were taken this morning. I'm wishing I'd "fixed" a few things. Lol

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Comments (12)

Lisa Adams
6 years ago
I've heard climbing Pinkie is great in the shade and maybe thornless? My Felicia and Bubble Bath do fine in such a location. Bubble Bath gets less sun than Felicia, and blooms well. My BB is only about 4-5'tall but has only been in the ground for 6-8 months. I don't get blackspot, so I'm no help on that one. Funny, I have some roses that were "accidentally" bought, too! Lisa
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
I'm back. I just checked out Viking Queen. Nice one! I think Bubble Bath's small pale blooms would look great with Viking Queen. I'm sure some of the others would as well, but I only grow Felicia and Bubble Bath. Lisa
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disappointed with viking queen..looking for alternatives
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Hello Liz, Your garden sounds like a very pretty blend of plants and colours. I really like the Clematis Will Goodwin and have one growing on either side of my John Davis climber. Anyway, it is not easy to find an exceptionally fragrant climber that reblooms well and is cane hardy in zone 5. For instance, most of the Explorer climbers which are completely cane hardy in zone 5, are not fragrant to any significant degree. I see that you mention that this wall and area is rather sheltered and is south facing. This likely makes the micro-climate in the area a full zone higher than what you are normally. You can get away with quite a bit growing borderline roses and plants against sheltered south walls. However, a harsh winter will still wreak havoc with cane winterkill on a borderline hardy rose, so be prepared for this. I like your combination of blues and pinks and since the wall of your house is white, I would think you'd want a colour that is bright and will stand out against the white backdrop while also blending nicely with the blues and pinks. My first instinct in colour would be to go with a dark red rose in a situation like this and to avoid light pale pinks and white roses altogether, as these will just be washed out into the colour of the wall and will not stand out from any distance. Here are a few suggestions and comments: Don Juan- Dark velvety red. An outstanding and very powerful fragrance. However, not cane hardy in zone 5, but borderline cane hardy in zone 6. It is however, a very vigorous rose that will bounce back from winter kill well. Grows thick canes that grow very upright and can reach 10 to 12' by end of season once mature. Repeat flowers well in good flushes. Can be prone to BS, but has good resistance to mildew. Illusion- Another dark red. Fragrance is not overpowering, but is detectable and sweet. A Kordesii climber and has good cane hardiness in zone 5. I suspect it will suffer little to no dieback against a south wall in all but the most severe winters. Blooms almost continuously once established. Very, very disease resistant. One of the best red climbers ever produced and very underrated. Westerland- A bright blend of mostly orange with highlights of pink and yellow. Super vigorous and grows super upright. It is also super thorny. It repeat blooms well and can easily grow 10' by the end of its first season in a sheltered location. Be careful with feeding too much nitrogen with this rose or it will produce growth at the expense of blooms. Cane hardiness is good for zone 6, poor for zone 5. Disease resistance is pretty good, but BS is more of a problem than mildew. The colour definately makes an impact and the fragrance, while not overpowering, is strong and sweet. Lemon Meringue- A yellow blooming sport of Westerland. Slightly less vigorous it seems, but otherwise identical in most respects. Laguna- I have never grown it, so this is second hand info, but it comes highly recommended by Palatine Roses. It is a bright, deep pink almost light purple red coloured climbing rose. Blooms heavily, repeats well and is very fragrant. Decent hardiness in zone 5, but will dieback to varying degrees pending severity of winter. Supposedly very resistant to both mildew and BS. Morgengruss (Morning Greeting)- A Kordesii large shrub/climber like Illusion. Blooms are mostly pink with highlights of orange, cream and yellow. Good, but not overpowering fragrance. Super vigorous and will produce a lot of thorny canes. Likes to grow as wide as it does tall, so needs pruning and training to make it a proper climber. Exceptional disease resistance. Does not bloom much in 1st year as it prefers growth. Blooms better in 2nd year and repeats okay, but really struts its stuff in year 3 and beyond and repeats well once established. Rosarium Uetersen- Just a stunning dark pink climber with good, but not strong fragrance. The blooms age beautifully and become a silver pink on the edges of the petals which adds to the effect. Has good cane hardiness in zone 5, almost bullet-proof disease resistance and the spring flush is a sight to behold on an established plant. It repeats well, but not as heavily as the initial flush. If you are set on pale pink in this location, then take a look at New Dawn and its sport, Awakening. They will fit what you are looking for as they grow huge, have good fragrance, are hardy, disease resistant and bloom well. Best of luck.
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Climbing Rose for East-Facing Wall
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If you prefer a deep pink/cerise, while I haven't yet grown it myself, I know that there's a climbing rose named Parade that gets a strong endorsement from Roses Unlimited and Vintage Gardens, and also is supposed to be a good climbing rose for a beginner. I'm about to order New Dawn, Viking Queen, and Parade from Roses Unlimited. In your situation I wouldn't necessarily recommend New Dawn (or Awakening, or Dr. Van Fleet, which are all the same thing except for details in the flowers and in whether they repeat or not). I think they are all likely to outgrow your trellis. Furthermore they're notoriously thorny, so once they've outgrown the trellis you won't enjoy keeping any of them in bounds since the experience will be painful (annually or more often). The only good reason to grow them in a space smaller than what they want is because you find you can't live without their amazing palest pearl-pink flowers! They also have to-die for flower form, but New Dawn's been used so often in the breeding of climbing roses that you can find lots of New Dawn descendants (including Viking Queen, Parade, and another beauty named Inspiration) that also have flowers of beautiful form. (You can tell I'm a big fan of New Dawn, can't you? ;) )
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eastern aspects....and possibly north facing too - what rose?
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Comments (16)
Campanula, Close to a north facing wall that gets sun from perhaps noon for a few hours in the afternoon, 'Ghislaine de Feligonde' does pretty well, blooming most of the summer with nice foliage. I grow it as a mounding shrub. On the eastern cliff edge of my back surrounded by forest with maybe 20 feet clearance, I grow hybrid musks pretty well, Cornelia, Pax who is new so iffy as a rec, and Buff Beauty. Those might please you. There also there is Reine de Violette; a noisette which will probably die, Lingo Musk; and you might like this one, Till Uhlenspiegel, a hybrid sweetbrier. TU is really healthy there. I also have Gilda, a hybrid multiflora, along that edge, and seems to be fine there. I like that rose, but don't know if it's a style you like. I remember Mad Gallica remarking that the setigeras are her most shade tolerant rose; i think she's in upstate NY. Sally Holmes might do okay there. If you are at all interested in mosses, Henri Martin or William Lobb might be okay. My HM gets only a couple of hours of afternoon sun, if that. My Pomponella is a sun lover here too. She gets shaded by some aggressive lah-de-dah dahlias in the summer and definitely resents them. I've found the hybrid multiflora/multiflora types seem to do well in less than ideal sun spots. Purple Skyliner is in the edge of a forested area and is doing okay. Do you like Lyda Rose? Would you want to try some rugosas? I think Wasagaming is shade tolerant; or at least mine puts up with shade. Both Therese Bugnet and Polareis/Ritausma seem to need sun, though. And then the albas - semi -plena might be fine in either place and a bloom form you might like. Do you dislike Madame Hardy? I'd also try hugonis or some of the other early yellows, just to see. My hugonis is a baby but too in a woody spot and it's doing okay. I read that Spanish Beauty/Madame Gregoire Staechelin is shade tolerant, somewhere. I think I also read it is not shade tolerant, so much for books, doncha know. But I'd be tempted to try it just to see; I've read you love that rose. Would it grow as a mounding shrub, do you think? I don't know about Duplex - I have mine in sun at the edge of the apple terrace. Honestly, if it were me, Campanula, I'd dig up or take cuttings of everything I loved and plant it just to see how it did. Otherwise, I'd spend the rest of my days wondering if it might not have worked after all. Courage, you will make it beautiful! Gean This post was edited by harborrose on Tue, Oct 8, 13 at 20:30
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For an East-facing Wall with Viking Queen......
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Comments (1)
I don't know why this posted here. It'll try to repost to AT and erase this. Sorry.
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
I grow both BB and Felicia and love them. I think BB might look the best with Viking Queen which I have. I also have Cl Pinkie and Lavender Lass and I think the colors are so similar it wouldn't give any contrast. Sally Holmes might work too, because the plants I saw in California looked white.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Hey, you guys, Thanks for replying. I'm wondering when everyone will get sick of my hemming and hawing over these various areas, but my head swims with the choices and I drive myself crazy! : ) I agree Felicia might not go as well with VQ, so I'm eliminating it from the choices.

I was looking for contrast and LOVED the way Falstaff looked here, but also think a similarly coloured one might go well with other plants in front for contrast. That way it would be one colour covering the wall. Do Cl.P and LL have good rebloom? Do they BS for you, Sheila? Lillyfinch had some complaints about LL, but I don't know if BS was one of them. I'm tending toward these because I'm not sure how they would look with the others which I actually bought for a North facing wall ie. CL PInkie and especially LL are "orphans" without a home. If LL is fairly healthy, low-thorn and floriforous, that would be perfect. I was most concerned its purple colour would clash with VQ. However, if BB is the better plant health-wise, I'll use it instead, since I don't want to deal with this area too much.

This space is an experiment that has failed so far, but an important one aesthetically. It does get full morning to early afternoon sun, but it wasn't enough for the plants I originally stuck there to get them through the winter. VQ is growing and bloomed last year and a couple this year, but is no where near as vigorous as the one I have in all day sun. (OF course, It did get stepped on and broken this spring.)

Lisa and Sheila, have you posted full bush shots of your HMs before? I'd love to see them even if we don't share the same conditions. (My BB is a BS mess right now. Its leaves go all yellow and fall off, I think from BS.)

P.S. The wall is stone coloured.
Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
Here are Cl Pinkie, LL and BB, vaporvac, in reverse order. Here, all are healthy, particularly BB having fantastic foliage. LL less repeat bloom, more Spring and Fall.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
Original Author
6 years ago
What a spectacular setting! Are yours getting any shade? Looking at wikip. it doesn't seem that you get much rain in the summer. Yours all look fabulous! I HATE BS!!! Guess I may have to break down and spray with something.
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Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
6 years ago
We do have a dry Summer, and these are in full sun, vaporvac, so BS problems are not as big an issue as some climates. Our Spring this year was unusually rainy and some roses got BS but not these. Your plan sounds charming.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
Original Author
6 years ago
You guys are making this decision harder, not easier! : ) Lisa, you front beds are my ideal; I'm especially jealous of your delphinium?. I'm currently leaning towards LL and Cl. P . LL is in the running as I have no where else earmarked for her and Cl. P because I think she might look pretty with VQ and bloom a lot. Again, if this proves a dud, there's nothing lost with these choices. I'll move it next year and go with hydrangeas, but it's hard to let go of a dream.

I still have a couple more problem areas, so bare with me, please and feel free to post your pics and experiences. This process drives me nuts!
Lisa Adams
6 years ago
These are the only two I grow, but Climbing Pinkie was suggested to me if I can't get Felicia to behave the way I want her to, up the trellis and over the arches. I'll just have to wait and see. I do still think Bubble Bath would be my choice, but that's just me. Mine gets a lot of shade and has bloomed well for such a youngster. Also, its been very healthy.

I do grow a few Delphinium, but they are rather fussy plants in the dry heat and no chill winters. The blue/purple plants growing in front of Bubble Bath, are Campanula Primulifolia. They are super easy perennials. They thrive in sun or shade, and can be grown moist or dry. They bloom all summer if deadheaded, reseed, and are hardy in zones 4-10. I don't know why their not more widely grown, as they are so carefree. Lisa
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley thanked Lisa Adams
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
Original Author
6 years ago
last modified: 6 years ago
Thank you for the info on the Campanula. I should have recognized the flower. I used to grow quite a few different varieties years ago, but they got dug out in the lawn redo. : (

I agree, BB would probably be the prettiest, but I'm thinking I don't want to "waste" her in this spot and with her already getting BS, I think it will be easier to deal with along a shorter wall. I have an 8' tall x 35' long wall with a perpendicular archway at one end to cover which is actually the reason I got so many HMs. I dreamed about BB hanging over that arch with Parade on the anchoring side. I know I dither on about these spaces that are hard to imagine. If the stonework repair were finished I'd post a pic, but it looks pretty bad at the moment to expose to the world. : (

It was surprising that the original roses did so poorly in this eastern exposure, but they are really putting on growth now that I've potted them in full sun. I'd also put Pnenelope there if I knew how she'd do.

FYI, everything here gets BS to some degree, but one HM pot baby that hasn't is Belinda. I've yet to see a bloom, but it's one of my few plants without BS.

P.S. Lisa, your house reminds me of mine with the arches which is why I love to see your pics. Unfortunately, mine are North exposure so no roses. : (((
Cathy Kaufell
6 years ago
Lavender Lassie is a real show stopper. People pull in to our driveway just to ask me. What's that rose?

Incredible fragrance and a repeat bloomer.
Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley thanked Cathy Kaufell

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