I wonder if they bought them instead of grafting

Pip, it looked like a FW tree in its shape...very robust. It also had all the usual FW labels along the top of the tree. This one was just buried beneath the mix. If I had not removed most of the mix (I did not bare root it in water, but did shake off most of it) I would have missed it.

I always barerooted mine.

im just confused a little because they sell what they sell, they've never shown interest in telling us what roots or offering multiple rootstocks.

although I do hear they have "standards" in stores in California but that's a rumor I've never confirmed.

I know, that is partly why I found it interesting. It looked to me like an old tag since it was below the mix level. I'll take a pic of the tree tomorrow with light and you will see the other tags look like FW standard stuff. The tree is lovely also - what I would expect from them. That is why I posted here...to see if anyone had any ideas. Could this be their "mystery and proprietary" rootstock? I know it is a common stock, just being cynical...either way, I love the tree!

Score! That's my rootstock of choice for my trees. It will give you great tasting and juicy fruit while only growing to semi Dwarf in the ground. It should do fine for you in a pot Laura, congrats on a great tree on a fantastic rootstock. I doubt that it is their proprietary rootstock that they use on all of their trees.

Evan

Thanks Evan! I remember you mentioning that rootstock for the moro blood. I'm glad I have it for this tree.

Actually there's an incompatibility issue with C35 and the Moro. My Moro is on Volkameriana because it has proven to be better suited to it.

Evan

Here are the tags and tree...

I had contacted FW last year to find out what rootstock my trees are on. Ed replied that most all of the trees I have are on C35. My FW tree list is... Oro Blanco, Sanguinelli, Trovita, Owari, Kishu, Gold Nugget, Tango, Indio Mandarinquat, Marumi, Nagami, Nordmann seedless. When I asked what trees were not on C35 I did not get a reply. They all look like C35 to me.

All of mine seemed to be on Cuban.

Although this just confirms that they false advertise true dwarf trees

I agree with pip about false advertising, but at least they use a good rootstock and the trees certainly do well. This tree looks healthy and robust. Rfelsch, I am surprised they told you that much. I know others on this forum have asked and have met with no reply.

It is super pretty Laura, I think Steve always says C35 is a great rootstock. My trees arrived yesterday... so that was 8 days in a box- ugh. They seem fine though, it has happened before. I am just reviving them in my grow room and will then post pics :).

So tell me what you have fruiting these days? Did I see a post that you got your first mandarin to sample over winter?

I read elsewhere on this board that they switched over from Cuban shaddock not that long ago and were not using Cuban shaddock all that much anymore.

Laura, I originally spoke with Ashley whom always seems to be very helpful. She contacted Ed to reply to my rootstock question. I did have to follow up a second time before I got a reply from Ed. I got the impression That Ed was very busy, but it did not seem like he was trying to keep any secrets.

Laura, that is great to know about the rootstock. That tag says a lot and is very helpful. At least we know it is a good rootstock. Thank you for sharing and posting the pics of your beautiful tree.. The tag on my Bouquet De Fleurs, that I received from Four Winds and few weeks ago is slightly different from yours. Here is a picture. . "The Original Dwarf Citrus "

I will share the recipe for BDF Sour Orange Marmalade on the flip side of the tag.. Bonus.. :D

Pip, could you explain why that would mean the plants are not true dwarf citrus?

Also when you all say Four Winds, you mean the one here in the Bay Area? In Fremont? "My" Four Winds sells citrus all over the country? They stopped having a retail location in Fremont years ago, but you could drive past their trees and I think they even sold from that location a few decades ago! Sorry, that was just a rambling monologue, but I am just starting to connect the dots...

KC

This is the tag that I found down under the bottom of the pot of the Santa Teresa Lemon that I received from Four Winds last year. At the time, I thought "Fecha " was a secret code for the rootstock that they use.. Lol.. I later found out that "Fecha" means "Date" in Spanish.. Hahaha :D

That's interesting Jinny! I'll check the back of mine, but thanks for posting that recipe. I was just lamenting that I am running low on calamondin marmalade and will likely not have fruit til the end of this year. I will be overloaded with calamondins then though :-). Hobby, I just gave my son the citrus tour and we discussed which will go in his room this winter (he will have a few more roommates ;-). The trees in his room did super well so I think he will get a few more of the tall ones including the giant key lime bc I don't want the budgies massacring him again. Hobby, let me see what I have in terms of fruits....I will list them (if I remember all) from largest quantity to lowest...

key limes (from thorny, giant, and thornless) - the two that will produce the most are the giant and thorny. I am still unsure if the thornless will keep the little limes

meyer lemons - Alexander is fully recovered, but no buds yet. However, my other meyer trees are producing.

persian limes - this tree has lots - maybe 15+

limequats - OMG, I am going to have them coming out of my ears. All three limequat trees are budding everywhere. I just counted and one has 13 ready to go. I may use them for a pie this weekend so she can use her energy to grow all the new ones.

Ray ruby grapefruit - that tree has lots of grapefruits - I think we may end up with 6-8

baboon lemon - that tree is continually in bloom and has lemons of various sizes although it is hard to tell when they will be ready. I may pot up that tree soon.

ST - I think it has 5 lemons that it may keep

Lisbon lemon - maybe 6-8 small lemons on that tree, the bearss lemon also has a few.

Ponderosa - lots of lemons (10+) and one large one, but not ripe yet

Nagami kumquats - assuming the tree does not go into decline, I should have lots - both threes are blooming now

Cara cara - one of those, but it is a good size although not ripe yet

sanguinelli - four on the tree that look fairly large and I suspect will ripen this winter

Moro - one from a small tree

Oro blanco - lots of fruits - 10+

Dekopon - one large fruit and it just bloomed so there are fruitlets.

Other mandarins that I cannot name off the top of my head with a few fruits.

Lol Jinny! Must be the graft date. I had no idea FW had so many facilities.

Laura, I would like a citrus tour of your collection! I really need to stop hanging out on this forum, I'm already looking around thinking I could squeeze one more in there...

Lol kcandmilo! You crack me up! Just add a few containers...in your area, you don't even need to bring them in ;-)

Laura, everytime i think about a container, one of you posts a terrifying repotting story, and I rethink it! However, I do think I have a couple empty spots I could get in a couple more citrus. Going to choose very, very wisely this time! One person had said plant varieties you can't buy at the grocery store, and that sounds like a fun way to go!

KC

Ok now that sounds promising! We are almost moving into official "harvest" territory lol. Great work!

I've got one more kiyomi tangor ripening, some meyers and eureekas (very small but they will hang on I think), one sanguinelli blood orange of promising size and that's all for now. I had a ton of calamondins but they are all in my freezer. My kumquats have been really disappointing! No fruit in a really long time.

Pip, could you explain why that would mean the plants are not true dwarf citrus?

Back in the day four winds used flying dragon, the only real dwarf rootstock until us-897 came out (which isn't available in California, Arizona, or Texas).

basicially you could water and feed all you want and the tree would never get over 10 feet. 6 feet was more likely to be the max height.

many of us, in fact I'm sure most of us, would prefer many small trees over a couple larger ones.

I now have a flying dragon plant in the ground to make my own rootstock eventually. Simply because liars like fourwinds will tell you you are buying a dwarf but in reality the tree will end up a semi dwarf size which is still huge at 15 feet tall and 15 feet wide. Good luck fitting more than 4 trees in a backyard.

I like fourwinds selection, I like their growth pattern, I like their customer service. None of that changes the fact that I want 6 foot trees and they advertise true dwarf but don't deliver.

Pip, I totally understand where you are coming from. It is my understanding that FW used to use flying dragon rootstock and no longer do that I know of. Someone can correct me if I am wrong.

On FW's website : "Dwarf Citrus are small trees that produce normal sized fruit. Four Winds uses orchard proven, fruit producing varieties that are grafted on cultivar specific dwarfing rootstocks. Our premier Dwarf Citrus are grafts, not self rooted cuttings."

"Dwarfing is achieved by using specific cultivar varieties. Grown in the ground they create a highly productive tree averaging eight to ten feet. They are smaller when grown in a container."

I believe the height also depends on the cultivar variety.

I purchased a Marumi Kumquat from FW's this spring and the 2016 printed tag has "Semi Dwarf" printed on it.. That surprised me.. Very confusing..

I purchased a good variety of citrus from Four Winds last year and the tags were printed in different years. The Bearss Lime tag was printed back in 2007. At the top it says, "The Original Dwarf Citrus. " The other tags are from 2011-2012.."True Dwarf Citrus.

Hobby, how did you like the first fruit picked off of your Kiyomi Tangor ? What was the flavor like?

Laura, you have a lot of fruit to look forward to when they all ripen. Lucky gal.. :)

Evan, what kind of incompatibility is there with Moro and c-35? I am almost positive that's what my Moro I just got from OSH is on. Similar to Laura I found the tag under the soil line when re-potting. It was a fantastic looking tree but suffered some from the heatwave and drying out a bit too much. I found this link you posted in another thread discussing moros and you mention its because some of the trial trees died on the c-35 rootstock, but 10/12 survival rate doesn't seem too bad.

Hi Jinny, the tangor was super juicy and had nice flavour and was SUPER sweet... actually I would have liked a bit more acid but that's typical for the variety so it was spot on. It also peeled very easily. I'm looking forward to my next one! The exciting thing was that it was round like a normal orange, not oval-ly like a mandarin. So it was exciting to produce my first "real" seeming citrus.

I think I might lose my mind if I ever actually get a grapefruit or blood orange lol! My Ponderosa lemon has been a trooper over winter as well... it defoliated quite a bit (it actually arrived with very few leaves last year) but is now bursting with new growth. I would be really excited to get a full size ponderosa lemon! I know Laura and I think dev have had them.

I will be doing some repotting this weekend and will try and take some pics.

Sammers, there are other research tests that also show a survival rate of 5/10. Just do a search for Moro blood orange rootstock compatibility and you'll find a lot of info. I purchased mine on Volkameriana because it yields the largest canopy during trials and I wanted to screen out my noisy neighbor. I'm sure your Moro on C35 will do just fine for you under you care.

Evan

well, this discussion is very interesting. How and where do you learn what rootstock for what citrus would be good and what not? how to figure out the what suppliers use what? just all over my head.

Thank you Evan. That is very interesting. I'm still so new and so much to learn