Parquet wood flooring cupping "along a line" over slab foundation
shedrach
6 years ago
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gregmills_gw
6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoRelated Discussions
Cause of cupping
Comments (14)I whole heartily agree 23% is at least 1/2 of the humidity one should have in the home. I wouldn't be able to live in that dry of an environment. All wood based flooring products come with instructions for installation as well as the humidity levels that should be maintained for warranty purposes. 55% to 60% is the humidity level for wood products, flooring to furniture. With the AC on (if applicable) in the summer the RH should be maintained around 60%, without it can get as high as 99%. Even at 60% your RH is dropping 37%, of course the floor will cup, no doubt. Even if your vapour barrier above the concrete is not sealed 100% which is tough to do, the main contributor is that huge drop in RH in the building envelope. Control your relative humidity at 55% to 60% and I don't think you will see anymore cupping next winter. By the way the first thing we do when we open packages of flooring is throw out the warranty instructions for installation, to small to read anyway LOL. All wood flooring products including laminate have different acclimatization procedures. Was the flooring acclimatized if not rectifying the problem may to be to late. As brickeyee stated the original tree affects acclimatization. While I'm at it an FYI for all, the softwood products will be affected far more than hardwoods by moisture changes. That it why one will see more hardwood based antique furniture than pines, thus the huge prices some pine antiques demand. This post was edited by SouthernCanuck on Wed, Jan 9, 13 at 12:14...See MoreEngineered Wood Floor Problem
Comments (8)Thank you for your responses! I feel kind of desperate. To answer your replies... This is an older structure so we can assume there is no vapor barrier in place. When the problem first occured we removed some boards and found the concrete to be drier than the air's RH and wood (where it buckled)... We had one installer and the one supplier's rep that came out, they said prior to pulling up a buckled plank that they were willing to bet that there would be a large trace of water moisture underneath -- which was absolutely wrong. There was nothing and the concrete was tested immediately and shown to be dry (they did the testing)... using a moisture reading device that was driven into the top of the wood and concrete (separately). Interesting to hear about expansion, esp along the width of the engineered planks. How would you go about adding expansion joints?? Could they be added to the field?? Recall, this is a glue-down floor. The installer keeps saying "no" because it is tongue & groove... but what does that matter if it is glue down? Are there special saws for cutting expansion joints into a slab? Two of the open space rooms are large with almost 40 ft across the width (perpendicular to the direction of the planks)....See MoreHardwood floor cupping - who to call?
Comments (4)Sorry to hear your floor is cupping. There are many many factors that go into this problem. Humidity and temperature among them. I live in the Dallas area and have similar problems I had a similar floor laid in my home on a concrete slab foundation. First a layer of sheet plastic was put down, then 5/8" plywood, then a layer of felt, then the flooring. My floor cups badly every winter. Mostly I think it has to do with the incredibly dry room air. I wish I had had the floor handscraped thereby reducing the unsightly effect, but the wife wanted an elegant sanded and sealed look, unfortunately there isnt anything elegant looking about a badly cupping floor. In the summer the floor isnt quite as bad. I'm sure you dont want to hear this, but try to get used to it, a good fix is not probable. I had several concerns about the relative humidity of everything...my home, the wood, the slab, etc. etc. and in the end the installer reassured me that it was all withing normal limits. A year after his install his company is nowhere to be found. Next time I'm going with a sealed concrete slab, everything I put on it is an incredible hassle. Good luck....See MoreUnseal slab, bad idea?
Comments (27)@SJ McCarthy: Lots of questions so I am going to break it down: "OK...the 'sealant' isn't a sealant. It is old glue from vinyl tiles. Has it been tested for asbestos? How old were the tiles that were taken up? Do you have photos of this glue-mess?" Whatever the "sealant" is, it doesn't allow water to be absorbed and the 2-3 installers I spoke with about gluing wood to it, all said it needs to be porous. Bostik also said it needs to be porous. I'm guessing the sheet vinyl was original to the house. It had 65% asbestos in the fiber backing. I had it tested. Tyvek suits, p100 respirators, hepa filter and wet scraped it. It still left a ton of residue so we used a mastic remover. Nasty nasty stuff that was not meant to ever be removed. House was tested for fibers and is considered safe. The slab looks great now, I considered just finishing it and having an industrial look, but that isn't very popular in my area so would influence resale. The glue down floor is the most expensive wood install we have. Your slab is one of the old one's that is almost guaranteed to have moisture issues (builders started using moisture barriers under the slab in the mid 1990's). Before you think about 15 years down the road, I would pay for the moisture testing of the slab (in-dwelling probes are your best method of testing the moisture level already in the slab). This can be done now so that you can make decisions later. There is a moisture barrier under the house because I saw it. The floor was jackhammered in a couple places for drain work and there was a very nice, black, intact moisture barrier present. I made sure to put the moisture barrier back, best I could, before the floor was closed up. The adhesives are expensive. They have to be. You would have to use one of the most expensive glues on the market = $2-$3/sf. That's ONE of your mark-ups. The other is the labour which is, another $2-$3/sf. Labour costs are roughly 1/2 the price of builds. Human sweat and KNOWLEDGE come at a price. The cost you were quoted for labour (on the glue down) is completely in line with a knowledgeable human doing it properly. Your installer isn't gouging you...s/he is in-line with the cost of his knowledge/time it will take to get this done properly. I agree. I don't think I am being gouged. The total cost of materials + install of $4.50/sf is very, very low. The preparation is going to be more than the cost of the wood. Preparation must be paid for. With a situation like yours (left over glue on a slab that needs flattening) is going to be $2-$4/sf. I would guess high. Removing the glue is a b!tch! Yes it is going to cause dust. That's what happens when dealing with old things like glue over slab. The cost of materials to float the floor per square foot are $.50 quiet walk, $.50 floor prep, $1.70 wood flooring, $1.80 labor. It's a DIY click lock floor and I asked for them not to glue it on the edges. I HIGHLY recommend you speak to your installer (who sounds like s/he is one of the one's who knows what he's doing) about the cost of the preparation. Labour to install a floating hardwood (there is glue that is added to the joints of every plank) should be $2.50-$3/sf (includes the glue). He charges $2.25 to install wood floors. This isn't the prep work or the finishing work. The labour for the concrete prep is a different cost. I would ask about that. This was a little different, his number changed a few times for this which made me concerned he isn't as proficient in this area since he usually works new construction. His final number was $.50....See Moregregmills_gw
6 years agogregmills_gw
6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoG & S Floor Service
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6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoCancork Floor Inc.
6 years agoshedrach
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoglennsfc
6 years agoshedrach
6 years agoSJ McCarthy
6 years agoshedrach
5 years agoshedrach
5 years agolast modified: 5 years agoshedrach
5 years ago
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