This is so refreshing - someone trying to find out about which roses like their climate, instead of asking us about what colors go together! I am in zone 9, but very dry summers, so too different from where you are. Hopefully someone from a similar climate to yours will respond. You might also contact your local chapter of the American Rose Society - these days there actually are people interested in old roses in ARS. There is also a nationwide old roses group called the Heritage Roses Group which has local chapters in various places. You might contact them to see if they have any in similar climates. Good luck!

Jackie

Well if you're somewhere without winter, it might help! I think that's the real issue with polite shrubs turning into huge monsters. Not necessarily a bad thing, but makes planning difficult when you have limited space. I know what I'm up against with the rain and humidity, just wondering about how vigorous and large these guys can get with year-round growing seasons.

The Rose Society here is pretty much nonexistent as far as I can tell - the website lands on a post from January 2015. Admission to the Botanical Gardens in City Park is free on Wednesdays though, so I'll try to take a long lunch one of these days to see what their specimens are like and/or talk to some knowledgeable folks there!

Bourbons are iffy here - some like it and some don't. The only one I grow is 'Eugene de Beauharnais', never gets taller than 4 ft.

I have a lot of teas and chinas. The teas get about 8 ft tall, wide, and deep if left alone. The chinas (mostly Le Vesuve and Cramoisi Superior) get about that big too. Keep in mind that my rose philosophy is to let them get as big as they want to be. I do prune them to keep them out of the driveway and paths. I have an Anna Olivier (tea) which I treat as a climber, and it gets up to 12 feet high. There is a Lamarque (tea) next door which is easily 8 ft tall by 10 ft wide and 8 ft deep. I hasten to add that it takes teas at least 8-10 years to get to the large sizes I have mentioned. My actual huge, enormous roses (over 20 feet tall - they get this big because they are all climbing up our 3 story house, or large trees, because we have limited space with sun, so I make them go vertical) are:

Cl Cecile Brunner (polyantha)

Sombreuil (aka Colonial White - mid 20th century LFC)

banksia lutea (Yellow Lady Banks)

Cl Mdme Caroline Testout (old HT)

Mdme Alfred Carriere (tea/noisette)

Belle Portugaise (rosa gigantia hybrid)

Some of my other roses get twice the size advertised, but as that was moderate to begin with, they end up much larger, but not huge.

My advice is to ask about specific roses you are thinking about, as of course there are always exceptions. Also, I would think that roses would be much more susceptible to fungus diseases there than here. None of my old roses get those, except some baby teas PM very mildly but grow out of it, and with the exception of VERY continuously wet Springs (like the one we just had), when some of the teas get DM, which I HATE! Luckily that only happens once every 10 years or so.

Jackie

Not as warm as you, but still considered Deep South. Teas, Chinas and Noisettes do well. I have Zepherine Drouhin, which is a bourbon, and it does well, but is a once bloomer for the most part. Many of the teas and Chinas have good disease resistance. Most teas get large, the only ones that haven't are Lady Hillingdon and Rosette de Lizzy. Many will also bloom all winter if there is no hard frost, but pray you don't go down to zero degrees, because they will die back to the roots. That probably won't happen in NO, but it happened here a few years ago. They did grow back, however.

Thanks so much, I suspect these are pretty good estimates for me to start with and a few of your skyscrapers are on my "maybe" list. Your photos on the archived threads I've been poking through are amazing! I would let everything climb everything if left to my own devices.

And yes, I'm counting on them taking a few years to settle in. Gives me time to move/donate/murder anything that's in their way. ;)

I've had to become very zen about fungus/mold/etc. There absolutely will be spotty/ugly leaves, that's just part of the deal, and I'm fine with them as long as the plant is otherwise happy. (Hence the high mortality rate of HTs in my yard and current OGR conversion.)

I am thinking of the All Star Teas like Duchesse de Brabant, Crepuscule, Marie van Houtte, etc. but also I want to make sure I have room for 3 Louisiana Found Roses - Peggy Martin, Arcadia Louisiana Tea and Natchitoches Noisette - because 1) if anything's going to act like it belongs in my yard, it's going to be something that's survived hurricanes and fungus for generations, and 2) who doesn't love a good story to go with their flowers?

Many thanks for your help!

DdB doesn't usually blackspot, but I had issues this year, I think because we had a late cold snap in March (DdB was FULL of buds and I lost all of them) and most of the roses that had leaves at the snap had blackspot issues, I guess the leaves were damaged. Crepescule is bullet proof, no black spot, also Reve d'Or, but give them plenty of room.

Arcadia Louisiana Tea, love/hate relationship. When it opens, it's glorious. But that is very rare. I had to dig mine up and haven't replanted it yet. It's in the back under some Magnolias. To my surprise, it actually opened a bloom! Maybe it needs shade?

Buford, Jeri, thank you, yes, that's what it sounds like - bourbons are worth a shot, noisettes and Chinas are a yes, and teas will be so happy they'll never stop growing. But that's a problem for Future Me! (Future Me, if you're reading this, sorry about the back fence and the shed wall and the front column and the gate and the side yard and...)

I won't go so far as to tell you that SdlM won't break your heart, but she probably will like your conditions. She does fine in our Charleston summers which are very like yours (my husband lived in NOLA for a while), and I doubt your somewhat warmer winters will upset her at all. I think your odds are good, but there's only one way to know for sure...

As for sizes, I'm not a good reference, since almost all of my roses are still young and in pots. Floridian and Texan plant sizes might be better comparisons for you than California sizes since precipitation patterns are different out west. (This also means they can get more rust and PM issues related to lack of summer moisture, so a rust-bucket or mildewy mess there can be a happy camper for you.)

Are you hoping for plants that will get huge, or not so much? If your garden is fairly small, it will be worth researching (as you have been) which few plants you'll enjoy getting large, but also buying some plants that don't mind being kept smaller. To my eyes, 'Old Blush' and "Natchitoches Noisette" look very similar, but 'OB' supposedly can get much larger than "NN".

You might want to get a few older Noisettes for their romantic clusters of small, full flowers and wafting fragrance... Teas, Chinas, Noisettes, Polyanthas and Hybrid Musks are the classes generally recommended for the Southern U.S., but Bourbons also used to be grown in many parts of the South (the foundling, "New Orleans Cemetery Rose" is considered to be a Bourbon), and a few members of other OGR classes will do fine if they a) don't require winter chill to prompt blooms and b) are tolerant of hot summers with rain.

Have fun researching and trying things out.

Virginia

Hi Lyanna, I would think the climate here is nowhere near as humid as yours, and probably not as hot, but it is humid here in summer, and rarely gets below 44 degrees. Teas do best for me, and do grow large. Marie van Houtte is a winner, even under the shade of a Jacaranda. A few of the Teas however have balled and burnt, (General Gallieni, Rosette Delizy, Hugo Roller). Don't know if it's just me though.

The ones that have done the best for me, apart from MvH, are Monsieur Tillier, (had one that was 8' high by 15' wide - in 4 years), Mrs Dudley Cross (much more mannerly, a previous one was 6' high by 5' wide,(after 10 years), Anna Olivier, (5' high by same wide in 4 years, but of course, Jackie's has got huge), and G Nabonnand - the current one is a little over 6' high, but around 8' wide, after 4 years.

New to me are Etoile de Lion - outer petals brown often, but so pretty when they don't, General Schablikine - vigorous and pretty blooms, also thornless. William R Smith - huge, gorgeous blooms which open here (unlike Maman Cochet), but so far, ungainly and reaching for the stars.

The only China I have is Mutabilis, and it doesn't object to being hacked back.

Yay, this is exactly what I'm looking for! I probably want a couple of monsters and a handful of polite shrubs, and since I am working with a small space this is really great info from actual people, thanks so much.

Antique Rose Emporium is a great company and resource. They ship great roses and would know what works for your area. Mike Shoup has written great books on antique roses as well as selling great roses.

The book Jeri mentions - Everbooming Roses by Georgia Torrey Drennan in 1912, is available as facsimilie copy on Amazon. (make sure you don't order the Afrikaans version by mistake!).

Jackie

You should also look into the book Antique Roses for the South. There are many roses that where found in Louisiana and would do great for you in NO. Besides the one you already mentioned, Mclinton Tea and Maggie are both found roses from Louisiana and Maggie I think is considered a bourbon. I live in Deep South east Texas that practically borders Louisiana so I have a very similar hot and humid climate as you do. Sdlm does great for me with minimal black spot and Peggy Martin is amazing for me. I agree that teas, bourbons and noisettes will do great for you as well as some of the polyanthanyhas like Marie Daly and Marie Pavie. If all else fails you can call the Antique Rose Emporium and they can lead you in the right direction. I deal with with black spot, mold and other humid fun stuff and it's just the name of the game where we live. Most all my teas rarely black spot but if they do I don't sweat it because they grow and bloom for me regardless. Have fun choosing! And let us know what you finally do choose :).

You definitely want ANTIQUE ROSES FOR THE SOUTH. And you should also look into TEA ROSES: Old Roses For Warm Gardens That gift to us from Australia is THE Tea Rose book we'd been waiting and waiting for.

I have had both of those books in my amazon cart (currently moved to wishlist) multiple times, actually did buy a couple random $5 out of print OGR books (en route), but the 1912 one is new to me! Luckily I work for a university so I'm pretty sure my friendly librarian can arrange for me to get my hands on that one.

Anybody have any experience with Rose Petals Nursery in FL? They have a number of own-root 1-gallons that are out of stock elsewhere, including the 3 found roses above plus DdB, so I may take a chance.

This is so great, thanks so very much everyone!

I agree that Everblooming Roses is well worth reading. If you're short on funds, you can read it online for free here:

https://books.google.com/books?id=p-0sAAAAYAAJ

Okay, I finally panicked that the Tea Roses book and the Roses in Bermuda book were going to be unavailable- or only available for hundreds of dollars- so I just ordered both online for $54 total.

Hopefully, the rain will stop and I can forage for chickweed and dandelions tomorrow...

Virginia

Rosepetals is a great nursery. The plants are small, but do well if potted up in rose potting mix and grown on for a few months to a year or so before planting in the ground.

I have also ordered roses from RPN, and have received some nice plants from them. Yes, they're small, but they're healthy, and grow well.

Just now- through the 14th- Roses Unlimited in SC- is having their summer sale, and they have plenty of Teas and Noisettes, etc. for $12 each. The shipping will get you, though, so it's worth getting multiple roses to get more for the shipping charges. Their plants are bigger than bands and also a good value, especially with the sale going on.

A Reverence for Roses- also in Florida- has very nice plants at a good price, as does Long Ago Roses in NC.

BTW, I bought my 'SdlM' from an online nursery in LA, but it looks like they are carrying fewer roses than they used to. They have great plants, though...

Virginia

Virginia, thanks so much for the reminder about Roses Unlimited, and I'm happy/sorry to have reminded you how much you needed those books!

I didn't even think of Almost Eden! They're fantastic for epis and tropicals but it looks like the roses are pretty well depleted at this point in the season. They're wonderful though, agreed. "Peggy Martin is great! We don't have any this season but here's a link to our direct competitor cause we just want you to have nice things." :)

I really have no business buying anything now but what if I'm waitlisted on everything in fall? They're just going in pots so I might as well get things while they're on sale, right? Right!

Well of course you have to get them while they are on sale, it's the only thing that makes sense! (Everyone is cyber nodding their heads in agreement :)).

There is a list in the book Antique roses for the south from the rose society in Houston for roses that do well for them in Houston and Galveston. Galveston is a coastal town just like NO and Houston is just as humid being one of the largest ports in the world. If I can remember this weekend I will snap a pic of that particular page and post it for you if you would like. I think you are on the right track and whatever you choose is going to grow beautifuly for you.

lyannastark, I didn't notice the reference to ARE at the Almost Eden site. That's just the kind of cool thing I expect from them, though. We just want you to have nice things... Yes, indeedy!

And boncrow is right; buying roses on sale does make all kings of sense- even if you don't plan to put them in the ground yet.

Virginia

Souv. de la Malmaison is one of a select group of Bourbons you should be able to grow. The others are Souv. de St. Ann's and Mystic Beauty. All have wonderful fragrance and a delicate blush color. They're low-growing for me and slowly become rather wide.

I;m in coastal Virginia 8A, climate very similar to Charleston but with colder winters.