Did our plumber just ruin our framing?
We are splitting the (only) bathroom in our 90-year-old house into two full baths.
Our plumber asked for a 2 x 6 wall along the same side of both bathrooms to run supply and DWV lines. We did that and also built a 2x4 curtain wall to divide the space into two bathrooms.
Without telling anyone, the plumber changed his mind and ran his vent lines through the 2 x 4 curtain wall. He also ran a drain line through an exterior, load-bearing wall. As you can see from the photos, he removed way more than 60% of the wood in these walls. He also bored through the corner post of the original house.
One of the vent pipes in the curtainwall actually sticks out from the stud, which will require us to dig out some of the cement backer board to get it to fit flush.
Needless to say, we flunked our city framing inspection. The inspector offered to work with us, suggesting that we could install some 1" x 12" metal straps on the edge of the studs to bridge the holes created by the plumber.
I looked at our building codes, and it looks like metal straps can be used horizontally to reinforce plates that are cut to accommodate plumbing. However, I can't find anything that says it's OK to do this on vertical studs that have been bored out with less than 1" of wood remaining.
If we tell the plumber to make the curtainwall a 2 x 6 wall, he will also have to relocate all of the roughed-in plumbing for the walk-in shower (which would otherwise be off-center). If we tell him to move all of the vent pipe into the 2 x 6 wall, he will also have to redo all the work in the basement.
I guess my question is, what should we do here? If the city is willing to allow us to pass our framing inspection with those metal straps, can we reasonably required the plumber to redo all that work? I am a little concerned that the city is actually being too flexible and the structure of our house will be compromised as a result.
Thanks in advance!
Comments (22)
George Schaaf
6 years agoRelated Discussions
I think our plumber has pulled a few fast ones
Comments (30)We constantly see posts describing horror stories about GC & Subs but has anyone bothered to ask why the problems occurred? Castoff summed it up in one line yet no one seemed to notice' "If you have lots of work, then you can afford to be selective. However, the opposite is "beggars can't be choosers". Truer words were never stated, if you have lots of work you can afford to be selective.... Now for the rest of the story as Paul Harvey would say: Speaking solely for the Plumbing trade for a moment. In 1985 the U.S.Dept. of Labor reported that nearly 70% of all journeymen plumbers in the USA were within 10 years of retirement age and the government asked that all plumbers make a concerned effort to enroll members in a bona fide Apprenticeship program immediately to insure we could continue to maintain an adequate workforce. The government even went so far as to offer some very interesting monetary considerations to encourage the Apprenticeship program. Haaing been involved in the apprenticeship program allow me to share some of the results: The overwhelming majority of those who apply for a job as a plumber are very anxious to get on a 40hr/wk payroll but the moment we mention they will also be required to attend night school for which we pay both tuition and books they refuse because we don't give them clock time for the class room. Of those who do agree to attend the school 35% cannot pass the simple prerequisite math test based on 8th grade math. A bona fide apprenticeship program is a four year program from which 70% of all applicants drop out within the first 6 months and by the end of the first year the drop out rate is nearly 90%. In fact, the number of initial applicants who actually complete the program is less than 5%. The end result in that in an industry that is critically short of skilled employees you may rest assured that true plumbers are not sitting in the office with thier heels up waiting for the phone to ring. Typically a residential plumbing job requires two men/women one or perhaps two days for rough-in followed by a three to four week wait, then two men/women for one to two days for the stack-out, pause for the other trades then one day for final trimout. Yet we must provide them a full 40hr week therefore we are constantly booking work 4 to 10 months in advance. In fact, I officially retired and turned my business over to my son 14 months ago and just two weeks ago he finally completed the work that I had on the books when i left. Along comes a homeowner who waits till they already have their permits and begin ground breaking before they hit the phone book looking for a GC, plumber, electrician, framer, HVAC installers etc etc. From this they get a short list of contractors who are sitting by the phone and willing to take a job on short notice, then they sort through that list looking for the lowest bidder. If i can offer no other advice in my lifetime please believe this. The time to start interviewing your contractors is the day you decide to build, even before you talk to your bank. The more lead time you can provide the better your chances of getting a good contractor. If you wait till the last minute you will be stuck sorting through those who for one reason or another simply can't stay busy, that should speak for itself....See MoreStepdaughter ruining our marriage
Comments (4)Sounds like your stepdaughter is NOT the problem and she is NOT ruining your relationship. Sounds like your husband is 100% the problem and your resentment is pointed directly at the wrong person. How are things when your stepdaughter isn't around? Does your husband still sleep all day when she isn't there? What is his work schedule? What time is he going to bed at night? My daughter is 10 and unless she is staying up all night, she does not sleep past 9 (at the latest on a weekend). And she is a sleeper. She has a very dark and cool bedroom and she sleeps very deeply. But she gets up before 9. So how much sleep is your sd getting at night? Is she staying up late? I think the way you dealt with the breakfast was fine. This is what I would have done too. Why didn't your sd stay home with her dad instead of having to get up and go with you? Could she stay with dad? Would it be easier on you? I can understand how Dh favoring her drives you insane... But as you said in your post, she didn't ask to be catered to or favored. He is doing a great deservice to her. He is teaching her how to grow up and be a big brat that feels entitled to be catered to by everyone in her life. You should suggest to your husband to read 'Love and Logic' I believe it is actually called 'Parenting with Love and Logic'. If he refuses, then you'll have to decide what you want to do with your future but if he can read this book. He will realize what he is doing to her and what he is also doing to his other children by treating them different. Good luck!...See MorePlumber say our house needs repiping! ACK!
Comments (22)Hey, Donna, fancy me finding you in this forum instead of Quilting! Anyway, I live in Central Florida, (I believe that's where you're at, too?) We had 2 slab leaks within 2 years and we were advised to re-plumb through the attic, too. Well since the first slab leak cost over a thousand to repair and the second one would have been probably 3 times more because they would have had to break through tile floors and take down a shower stall, etc. So we went with the re-plumb and that was in 2015. It cost us just under $5000. We have 2 bathrooms and a laundry room. So I don't know if 4 years would make that much difference but if I were you I'd check around. The only reason why we gritted our teeth and did it was that we could very well have dealt with multiple leaks in the future at over a thousand and more a pop. Not to mention all that cement dust floating all over the place and the aggravation. And when you have it done through the attic, just so you know, there will still be some places where they have to bust holes through walls to connect things and you will have to do that repair yourself, the plumbers don't do that. So you've got sheet rocking repair and painting for that. Then you'll have pipes running up inside of closets, etc. and unless you figure out some way to enclose those you'll have to look at them, which I hate looking at them (even though they are in the closet). And where the pipes go through the ceiling there will have to be some kind of sealing going on there. It's not a pleasant experience and I feel sorry for you but you should go ahead and plan on doing it if you don't want the unpleasant experience of expensive repairs again and again. But as someone says above, this isn't something that you have to rush around and do immediately, you've got the time to check it all out at your leisure. Good luck!...See More"Painters" have ruined our house
Comments (8)Dear god. Usually titles like this are complete hyperbole where, if one squints, one can vaguely see a few minor painting errors. This job is an absolute murder, however. I'm so so sorry. I wish I had some good advice; someone here will probably know further legal steps you can take. I sympathize with the fear of following up due to the sketchy background of this outfit -- we had a somewhat similar issue when an asphalt company vanished from town in the middle of doing our driveway and never showed up again, keeping about $1,500 worth of our pre-paid deposit. Despite having been diligent with getting recommendations, etc, deeper research showed a similar criminal history of the owner. My husband decided it was not worth the worry to follow up legally. In our case, the amount wasn't worth the trouble, but your loss is far greater given how much you'll need to pay a real company to fix all those errors. You have my unending sympathy. Definitely change all your locks, etc, and move any valuables to new secure locations. Please let us know how things proceed!...See MoreGeorge Schaaf
6 years agoGeorge Schaaf
6 years ago
PROMint tile Minneapolis
6 years agoGeorge Schaaf
6 years agoThanks so much everyone. It didn't smell right to me, and I appreciate having a bunch of independent eyes tell me I'm not crazy!
As long as we're at it, what do you think of his "mortar bed" for the tub? He took a bag of dry sakrete and spread it on some builders felt, then set the tub in it. Is that remotely kosher?
geoffrey_b
6 years ago
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6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoNo, also did acrylic whirlpools and tubs. No one ever suggested that method. Nor was it in the instructions that my plumber friend taught me to always carefully read.
Self-leveling legs, Maax.
The ones I recall often had foam and even framing at the bottom. Maax freestanding whirlpools, which I have used, come with self-leveling legs. I will keep mortar in mind for the next build. Googling around, I see mortar is recommended on certain American Standard models, for instance. Live and learn!
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Vith
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago- PRO
Mint tile Minneapolis
6 years agolast modified: 6 years ago George Schaaf
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PROJoseph Corlett, LLC
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