Condensation in Unvented Flat Roof - Rigid Foam Board Installed
Casey Schneider
6 years ago
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Vith
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agoRelated Discussions
Foam Insulation/Icylene
Comments (7)Hi Worthy, My response has nothing to do with the qualities of foam. From research on the building sciences site, and from several foam companies, my conclusion is that no venting is needed with solid foam in the cavaties. Millions of folks have coleman/igloo ice chests in their trucks/r.v's and i dont know about you, but i've never noticed one condensing on the outside. They are solid foam walls and lid. Pretty simple parrable there. Unfortunately in our county, there is an obvious lack of research on their part concerning foam and venting. Because continous run ridge/soffit venting is a requirement with any insulation type, they have included foam with that code. I will always have a sore spot for not having our build with a foam envelope as i'll always believe that it is the best out there and venting isn't necessary regardless of geographical location. I just put our experience out there as a warning for people to double check should there area have an inept ruling on venting. It would have run us over 12k to completely foam in our build. To tear that out and see it go to the landfill was not appealing, so maybe a heads up will save some others similar to the heads up we got that saved us major dinero....See MoreMighty Anvil--Roof Question (Grace I&WS and Unvented Roof)
Comments (3)Thank you for your fast reply! About our climate: - Extreme. Daily temp swings ~50 degrees between day and night. - Summers, though short, are intense reaching 100, - Winters below zero--last year we hit -38, which was not seen here for some time prior. - Snowfall ~20" annually and commonly swing (especially at the beginning and end of the season) between snow accumulation and melt cycles. - Not like the Rocky Mountains of CO where feet of snow pile up, but last year there were some pretty threatening icicles hanging from rooftops. - Its basically high desert--trees only grow along creeks. - Windy. Not constant or as extreme as say southern Wyoming or coastal hurricane regions, but it is a factor. The second vent space *is* being considered for the reason you state: to create a cold roof--an insurance policy, but perhaps overkill. Also, we already have the BCIs and sheathing for the roof so that part we're committed to. No other part am I dead-set on and very much appreciate input. Started this thread to identify any wrong-thinking on our part and gather now that: - insulation above the roof sheathing keeps that sheathing in the warm space, preventing condensation, otherwise a vapor barrier is required. That vapor barrier could be spray foam on the underside of sheathing, right? - 2 layers of underlayment for the 3:12 pitch south side. Thank you very much!!...See MoreSpray Foamed attic problems
Comments (17)A couple fo things: Open cell foam. Note the word "open". It will absorb moisture vapor and hold hold that vapor. It can eventually saturate and hold liquid moisture, just like a saturated sponge. Open-cell foam is indeed classified as an air infiltration barrier. But it still needs a vapor barrier to prevent the open-cell structure from holding moisture. I use both open- and closed-cell foams. But I'd never use open-cell in a roof. Never. In my opinion, and it is my opinion, closed is the better option. If you are going to do an unvented roof, then the foam does need to be applied directly to the underside of the sheathing. To the house a a whole... When the thermal envelope of a house is tinkered with, you need to take a holistic approach. You sealed the lid. If you didn't already do so, you need to address the basement as well as the living spaces below the lid. For most houses, moisture is generated in the basement as moisture wicks through the slab and/or foundation. That moisture can work its way into the living spaces through stairways, doors, and utility penetrations in the first floor platform. That moisture, plus moisture generated in the living spaces, can work its way into the attic. In older leaky houses, or houses with vented attics, the moisture can be whisked away through air movement. That same air movement gets rid of moisture vapor, but it can kill the thermal efficiency of your envelope. You sealed the lid of your house, eliminating an escape route for that moisture vapor. Your open-cell foam may now be acting as a holding medium for that moisture. Thus the high humidity levels in your attic, as well as liquid moisture draining out of your soffits. Address moisture sources in your basement as you can. Seal penetrations in your first floor platform. Address moisture generated in the living spaces; cooktops, showers, etc. Seal penetrations in your attic floor. After a dry spell when your open-cell foam has been able to go through a drying cycle and it's no longer holding water, get a vapor barrier on that foam. An easy way might be to use a topical coating to "paint" right on the surface of the foam. The coating can act as a vapor barrier as well as an intumescent barrier....See MoreInstalling laminate flooring over rigid foam insulation in basement?
Comments (22)3650 PSF is equal to 25 PSI..... Their dricore products are just massively overpriced, at least in the US they are. I think it is better to put down a foundation wrap (DMX), then 1" XPS foam (25-30 PSI). Assuming that the floor is flat, you could probably get away with putting flooring (with a membrane) directly on top of it. If your floor isn't flat, you probably will need a dedicated subfloor. I'd also be sure to use some kind of flooring that is somewhat rigid and install it perpendicular to the foam boards, so that if the foam boards do try to lift or sink, the flooring will add some rigidity to prevent it from mattering....See Morewacokid
6 years agoCasey Schneider
6 years agowacokid
6 years agoenergy_rater_la
6 years agoMongoCT
6 years agolast modified: 6 years agocynthia designs
5 years agomillworkman
5 years agoBruce in Northern Virginia
5 years agowacokid
5 years ago
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