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elbartee

Mighty Anvil--Roof Question (Grace I&WS and Unvented Roof)

elbartee
15 years ago

Referring to my year-old research on best practices for roof construction, I notice one of our specs (for Grace Ice and Water Shield) is from your recommendation posted long ago to another. We're now ~160 days into our Owner-Builder project and I've come to appreciate and respect your advise. As such, I ask if you might be so generous as to comment on our roof plans.

#1 re Grace Ice and Water Shield

Haven't been able to confirm that its not intended only for steep-pitched roofs of greater than 4:12. Our roof will be 2 opposing shed roofs separated by a clerestory. One side is 4:12 while the other is 3:12.

Also need to confirm we shouldn't be using Grace Ultra for high altitude alpine regions. We're at ~4500' in semi-arid northern climate. I think high altitude is usually considered 7000' or more.

#2 re Actual Roof Construction

We've planned an unvented roof of BCIs (wood i-joist) sheathed with OSB on the exterior and finished with carsiding (TnG 1x pine or cedar) on the interior and insulated with blown cellulose (that recycled paper material) to >R40. GIWS then a light-colored asphalt shingle will top the sheathing. We're planning GIWS for the entire roof--unless there's a good reason to use GIWS for only the eaves and protrusions--because of the the low pitch (3:12) of the south side and the fact that the majority of the roof (the 4:12 side) is north facing very cold.

For months we have been leaning toward a variation on this plan that our builder says is overkill.

Two things:

- our builder is not in the typical "builder" role. Our arrangement with him is a friendly pay-per-labor-hour and his experience is all sorts of building and remodeling. We're very happy with him and his work and chose him because of his method of log construction.

- and the variation on the plan, which is really the question: It would create a "vented unvented roof" as insurance against interior humidity buildup condensing and freezing on the underside of the sheathing in the winter. After the exterior sheathing we'd install GIWS, sleepers, another layer of sheathing, GIWS, then light-colored asphalt shingles. First heard of the method when researching unvented roofs and found this recommendation from Buidling Science (figure 9)

http://www.buildingscienceconsulting.com/resources/4-Understanding_Attic_Ventilation.pdf

Although a difference from our plan to this Building Science example is that the insulation would be between the joists rather then rigid foam above the 1st sheathing layer.

I see that I've now burdened the nice Gardenweb community with a novel so I hope I haven't left out important details.

Thank you all for reading. All comments welcome.

L bar T

Comments (3)

  • mightyanvil
    15 years ago

    The NRCA recommendation for asphalt shingle roofing has always been a normal underlayment (#15 or 30 asphalt saturated felt) for slopes of 4 in 12 or greater, two layers of underlayment for 3 in 12 or lower, and 2 layers of underlayment set in hot asphalt or mastic (or Ice & Water Shield) for slopes of 2 1/2 in 12 or lower.

    In a high wind/rain/snow climate I would use Ice & Water Shield (or the thinner cheaper version, Basik) over the entire roof for 4 in 12 pitches or lower. I know builders in Maine who insist on using it on 12 in 12 pitches.

    Grace Ultra is butyl instead of asphalt based because it resists the high heat of sun exposure at high altitude areas like the desert southwest.

    In my experience, the second vent space that you describe is usually for the purpose of creating a "cold roof" that helps to keep snow from melting on the roof and forming ice. It is normally used in areas with unusual amounts of smowfall. It is a common approach in Aspen and Vail. If your roof is well insulated and protected by IAWS I'm not sure the additional vent space will be very beneficial and moving the insulation location shown in the BSC design exposes the back of the sheathing to potential condensation so a vapor barrier would be required.

    In any case the second layer of IAWS does seem redundant.

    Tell me more about your climate.

  • elbartee
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    Thank you for your fast reply!

    About our climate:
    - Extreme. Daily temp swings ~50 degrees between day and night.
    - Summers, though short, are intense reaching 100,
    - Winters below zero--last year we hit -38, which was not seen here for some time prior.
    - Snowfall ~20" annually and commonly swing (especially at the beginning and end of the season) between snow accumulation and melt cycles.
    - Not like the Rocky Mountains of CO where feet of snow pile up, but last year there were some pretty threatening icicles hanging from rooftops.
    - Its basically high desert--trees only grow along creeks.
    - Windy. Not constant or as extreme as say southern Wyoming or coastal hurricane regions, but it is a factor.

    The second vent space *is* being considered for the reason you state: to create a cold roof--an insurance policy, but perhaps overkill.

    Also, we already have the BCIs and sheathing for the roof so that part we're committed to. No other part am I dead-set on and very much appreciate input.

    Started this thread to identify any wrong-thinking on our part and gather now that:
    - insulation above the roof sheathing keeps that sheathing in the warm space, preventing condensation, otherwise a vapor barrier is required. That vapor barrier could be spray foam on the underside of sheathing, right?
    - 2 layers of underlayment for the 3:12 pitch south side.

    Thank you very much!!

  • elbartee
    Original Author
    15 years ago

    bump