5:1:1 Big batch amounts seem incorrect? Am I mistaken?
7 years ago
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Tapla's 5-1-1 Container Mix in More Detail
Comments (450)@dleverette When making 5:1:1 mix, I break-up the compressed chunks of peat so they pass through a 1/2" screen. I toss any sticks and such on top of the raised beds where they break down with time. Here's a tip you'll find very helpful. For large batches of 5:1:1, pour the bark onto a tarp laid on a flat surface, then wet the bark a bit. Then, add the screened peat and spread it over the bark. Add your lime on top of the peat, then put down the perlite and wet that. The trick is to use just enough water to make the mix damp when it's thoroughly mixed. Both peat and pine bark are hydrophobic (water repellent) when allowed to dry below about 20% of their water holding ability. This makes a dry 5:1:1 mix extremely difficult to rewet if you don't moisten it when you make it. The moisture in the mix diffuses, moistening the bark/ peat and "breaking" its tendency to repel water. Within 15-30 minutes of making the mix you can pot plants and water them in thoroughly w/o the frustration associated with trying to rehydrate a dry soil. FWIW, I don't use coir. As many times as I've tried it and cone comparative experiments, I've always had problems or been dissatisfied with the results. You might be interested in a comparison between peat and coir I wrote several years back: Peat vs. Coir Sphagnum peat and coir have nearly identical water retention curves. They both retain about 90-95% of their volume in water at saturation and release it over approximately the same curve until they both lock water up so tightly it's unavailable for plant uptake at about 30-33% saturation. Coir actually has less loft than sphagnum peat, and therefore, less aeration. Because of this propensity, coir should be used in mixes at lower %s than peat. Because of the tendency to compact, in the greenhouse industry coir is primarily used in containers in sub-irrigation (bottom-watering) situations. Many sources produce coir that is high in soluble salts, so this can also be an issue. Using coir as the primary component of container media virtually eliminates lime or dolomitic lime as a possible Ca source because of coir's high pH (6+). Gypsum should be used as a Ca source, which eliminates coir's low S content. All coir products are very high in K, very low in Ca, and have a potentially high Mn content, which can interfere with the uptake of Fe. Several studies have also shown that the significant presence of phenolic allelochemicals in fresh coir can be very problematic for a high % of plants, causing poor growth and reduced yields. I haven't tested coir thoroughly, but I have done some testing of CHCs (coconut husk chips) with some loose controls in place. After very thoroughly leaching and rinsing the chips, I made a 5:1:1 soil of pine bark:peat:perlite (which I know to be very productive) and a 5:1:1 mix of CHCs:peat:perlite. I planted 6 cuttings of snapdragon and 6 cuttings of Coleus (each from the same plant to help reduce genetic influences) in containers (same size/shape) of the different soils. I added dolomitic lime to the bark soil and gypsum to the CHC soil. After the cuttings struck, I eliminated all but the three strongest in each of the 4 containers. I watered each container with a weak solution of MG 12-4-8 with STEM added at each watering, and watered on an 'as needed basis', not on a schedule. The only difference in the fertilizer regimen was the fact that I included a small amount of MgSO4 (Epsom salts) to provide MG (the dolomitic lime in the bark soil contained the MG, while the gypsum (CaSO4) in the CHC soil did not. This difference was necessary because or the high pH of CHCs and coir.) for the CHC soil. The results were startling. In both cases, the cuttings grown in the CHC's exhibited < 1/2 the biomass at summers end as the plants in the bark mix. I just find it very difficult for a solid case to be made (besides "It works for me") for the use of coir or CHC's. They're more expensive and more difficult to use effectively. The fact that some believe peat is in short supply (no where near true, btw) is easily offset by the effect of the carbon footprint of coir in its trek to the US from Sri Lanka or other exotic locales. That's the view from here. YMMV Coir Study: https://sites.google.com/site/plantandsoildigest/usu-crop-physiology-laboratory/coconut-coir-studies Al...See More5-1-1 questions and problems?
Comments (14)"how long does it take you to screen a 2cuft bag?" I can generally screen a 2cuft bag through the 1/8" mesh and window screening in maybe 20 or 30 minutes, no problem. Get lots of 5 gallon buckets with tops. It makes all of your screened (and unscreened) resources easy to move, store, separate, and manipulate. However, Josh is absolutely correct, in that, you really don't have to screen at all for 5-1-1 if you so choose. I do, for a number of reasons, not least of which is that the bark product I use contains a pretty hefty amount of dust. Much more than I would want in my mix. In fact, the first batch of 5-1-1 that I ever made I didn't screen anything, not even the perlite, wayyyyyyyyyy too much retention. Luckily that mix went to a few extra thirsty indeterminate tomatos!! LOL. Also, as I just said in another post, it allows you to customize your mix for your needs. If I'm going to use the dust, I'm going to know exactly how much of it I'm using. Think of it this way, if you don't know how much bark dust is in your mix, AND you are using peat, you may very well be essentially making a 4:1:2, or a 3:1:3 for that matter. And the next batch of bark that you buy will yield a different distribution of fine particles, guaranteed. So, if you don't screen it, then it's nearly impossible to make a similarly composed mix from batch to batch. I'd rather know than not know, that's my preference, but it's totally up to you, and heavily dependent on the composition and consistancy of the bark product that you use. To screen, or not to screen...that IS the question...... LOL. PJ...See MoreAl's 5-1-1 Mix - Is this Pine Bark ok?
Comments (48)I would have to say that it took time but well worth the effort. Chopping that up took a lot out of me but it was a work out. I am kind of in shape but have ankle, knee and hip problems from an old highschool injury many years ago so I have to sit down to do a lot of the work. I am approaching 40 now and trying to get back in shape and by doing that and how good my body felt after the sorness went away I would do it again next year. However there may not be a need to because I bought the Agway Pine Bark which is near perfect. The price is also excellent I think they have a deal where you can buy 3 to for 4 (3 cubic ft bags) for around $20. The price keeps lowering the more bags you buy. Also I love the cheap cost of Peatmoss. $10 for 3-4 Cubic ft. The perlite is the problem with expense though. Now I would use a commercial mix but the cost would be far too high. I had to fill 9 (20) gallon containers and 15 (5-7) Gallon containers. So as a safe estimate I filled about 250+ gallons which would work out to about 16 (2 Cubic ft ) bags of a commercial mix. If I did my math right I estimate that 15 gallons is about equal to 2 cubic Ft. I estimate that I have spent $20 for about 6-7 Cubic Ft of Peat moss, $50-$60 for Perlite, $10 for 40lbs of Garden Lime, and about $50 in Pine bark. So Let's say I spent around $140 for 16 bags (2 cubic Ft) of mix then the total price per 2 cubic Ft would be about $8-9. This is also not to mention that I have plenty of Peat moss (about 2 cu ft) and a bunch of lime along with more perlite left over. So technically I saved over $100 if I were to buy a commercial 2 CU Ft. Mix bag at about $15. Now if only had to make a small amount I would totally buy commercial and I almost did but the cost was way to high. I also forgot to mention that I did not use control release Ferts, instead I used MG liquid soluable tomato food. This was because it was cheap at the time and I was on a limited budget, but next year I will do it after this crazy weather. Here in Philly area we just got about 7+ inches of rain in one day a few days back and another inch yesterday. It has been very tricky to plan the fertilization days. Edit: I forgot that I had 4 (5) gallon Bell peppers in the front growing and my Yellow Kellogs in 2 (16 Gal) containers so that would make it 300 Gallons of Mix I made which would bring the price down to about $7 per (2 Cu Ft). Also the production is doing great. This post was edited by thebutcher on Fri, Aug 2, 13 at 14:19...See MoreOops.. I mixed turface in my 5-1-1, help!!
Comments (19)Hi everyone! I just thought I'd resurrect this thread as I am playing with some very similar ideas at the moment. I'd love to hear how some of these recipes have worked for people over the years. I'm particularly interested in how the 5:2 mix of bark and turface worked for everyone. I have been growing in the 511 and gritty mixes for 2 years and am constantly tweaking the recipes to suit my conditions, and also because I absolutely love experimenting. So here's where I'm at: I have noticed that watering my plants in the gritty mix is VERY easy; in less than 15 seconds, the entire root ball is wet. While this does need to happen more often than my plants in 511, the actual watering process is very simple and quick. Also, when I go away from home for any length of time, I can simply tell my gf to water on a schedule. There is no guesswork involved for plants in gritty mix. For my plants in 511, I often need to soak them for some length of time, or use both top and bottom watering methods to fully saturate the soil. This is very tedious and time-consuming. Since I am now in quarantine, (along with the rest of the planet), I recently removed all of the dust (smaller than 1/8") from the bark I have on hand and I'm itching to throw some turface into my next batch of 511. I was planning to use: 5 parts bark (no dust) 1 part turface 1 part lava I don't like perlite because it just floats to the top. I have no problem with the weight of lava. Now I am wondering, should I just use 5 parts bark and 2 parts turface instead? Or maybe the "classic" 511 recipe will be easier to water now that I have removed the dust? I'll likely make a small batch with turface and lava today to use on a single plant, but I really hope to hear from some of you! Gardening is making this whole ordeal bearable. I hope you all are well. Cheers!...See More- 7 years ago
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