Finedreams, I want to reiterate how this conversation/disagreement between you and I started: * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Mon, May 10, 10 at 19:44 If someone sends her naked pictures around and plans threesomes, it is beyond "what went wrong" issue. It is not a typical affair. * Posted by silversword (My Page) on Tue, May 11, 10 at 15:24 FD, I think "typical" is changing. Threesomes became very popular when I was in highschool. I would not be surprised if that is a very common make/break issue with marriages today. Bi-sexuality is now very "normal". Also, with the new cameras and the non-issue of development at outside locations (no stigma of having to send those nude pictures off to get developed!) times they are a changin'. * Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Tue, May 11, 10 at 18:15 Bisexuality is not a behavior, it is who people are, it is neither normal nor abnormal, it is what it is, nothing to do with threesomes. Bisexual people are attracted to both sexes, does not mean they cheat or have threesomes. Of course threesomes are not something never heard off (I am much older than you so I have to tell you it was popular before you were at high school), but generally people who love to arrange threesomes and post their naked pics are not much of a marriage material, at least not at that point of their lives. Would you want to be married to someone who secretly arranges threesomes and posts naked pics? I don't. I do not understand why people suggest this marriage needs to be saved. But oh well. It is just me. You said "not typical affair" because of pictures and threesome. I said, "typical" is changing. As bisexuality becomes more acceptable in our society and as multimedia makes photography/video that would previously "typically" (prior to 2000) not be shared (at least as easily); the behaviors that constitute a typical affair change. I never said that bisexuals have threesomes, are cheaters, that bisexuality is only a behavior, that it was ok for his wife to be doing what she did or anything else you put in my mouth and pointed fingers and called me naive. My point is, "typical" is one of those words that means absolutely nothing unless everyone is standing in the same little circle. Depending on your age, socioeconomic status, location in the world, upbringing, etc.... what constitutes a "typical" affair will vary. Much as the interpretation of a "typical rainstorm". Once it starts sprinkling here in So. Cal. it's "pouring". Where I'm from, there has to be at least a foot of water on the ground before anyone begins commenting that it's raining hard. I agree with you that "promiscuity and dishonesty are wrong at any age" and again, I never said that bisexuals have poor moral character. It is becoming a lot more common, or at least a lot more people feel comfortable admitting to it. Thus, I believe bisexual "affairs" are becoming more "typical" than the "normal" (lol) affair.

Ok, so for others to think it is weird to read it, imagine how I felt when I first met them. I get that it may sound off the wall, but who could honestly make this up? I have to laugh, my gosh, I WISH it were all a joke. I was so absolutely confused when I met them, not only am I in the beginning stage of my relationship with my now husband, but the confusion with the fact that I AM A GOOD PERSON, and yet, everything I did in their eyes was wrong, and after so much of that you begin to question yourself. It's difficult enough to learn the dynamics of a family, but a family like this is just overwhelming. Like I said, I never met a family like this before. I recently made the cult analogy to my husband as a joke, then I started thinking that their behavior really is cultish. Sylvia, one thing I noticed about the Grandma is she does back down when the other "outsider" (I'll call her "Suzy") in the family stands up to her, but it's short lived. That marriage had years of problems because of the Grandma, and they finally moved out of state. When I first met the family, they'd all talk about the Suzy and bash her constantly, behind her back of course. And I thought, oh my gosh she must be a terrible person. Then, I met her, and she was totally nice to me, and I could tell she felt uncomfortable around the family. That's when things started to click, and I slowly began to realize that Grandma feeds everyone with her negativity, and I think the daughters learned this from the Grandma. So when I finally had the blow up with the sisters, and the family came back to me faulting me and blaming me for how I communicated with them by email, I was so completely frustrated and I went off on a tangent about all the nasty things I felt about this family, and told them how I think they treat people with such disrespect, especially Suzy. My husband grew up with it his whole life, and was so used to it that he never realized it until I started pointing it out. He knew his sisters were rude and warned me, so I don't mean it like he's completely oblivious, but when I asked him if Suzy had ever been rude to him, he said no, and then I started to point out how your family always bashes her, but it never seems justified, then he started to pay attention, and realized much of it was a fabrication from Grandma's negative attitude. Suzy is like me, she isn't really one to conform, though she's not rude either, but everyone has a breaking point. From what I hear, they've had a lot of marital problems and I suspect it's because of Grandma and the family. I mean, come on, anytime you are in the presence of people who whisper when your back is turned, you CAN tell, you can sense it. That's what the sisters have done to me, and I suspect they've learned that from Grandma. I get what everyone is saying about be nice and gently disagree, but they are so persistent it's irritating. And, you can't have a conversation with one person, they all have to chime in together, so it's like you against all of them. When I get frustrated, you can see that I'm frustrated. And they get defensive. I've learned to start walking away, when I can, but sometimes I regret not saying something, and at the same time I don't want to be "that person" at the party who crashed it because she blew her stack. LOL. Lonepiper, I do agree - I'll never be good enough, and my attitude is changing to the idea that if you don't like me for who I am, too bad, get over it. I suppose my distancing myself from them is my way of rebelling. If I get visibly angry with them, I get the "well EXCUSE me" attitude, and then they won't come over for a year, which frustrates my husband that they ostracize us. So, it's a viscious circle. If my husband didn't have a close bond with his family, I could care less, but again, I also have to think of his needs, so I try to be the bigger person. Txnursing, it's not that we let the guilt trip get to us, it's the anger that follows it that I can't stand. It's like dealing with a five year old. The Uncle is the worst. It'll be like this - he'll ask us to come over. My husband will say that we have plans with my family. Then he'll insist on my family coming over. THAT appalls me, as if my whole family is supposed to change their plans because what Uncle has going on is more important or better than what my family could possibly be doing. Seriously, that's his attitude, and he's very pretentious, everything is about "image" and he acts like people want to live his lifestyle of entertaining everyone all the time. Sometimes we just want to sit home and watch a movie. Screw your image if you are a nasty person, right? He doesn't ask us much anymore, but now it's like we've been ostracized. We get invited to family functions, more or less like it's expected of him, but that's it. And, he's given me the cold shoulder since I didn't go up during a holiday and kiss his family's butt after the sister incident - they wanted me to "brush it under the carpet" and swallow my pride once again (oh, and this was an "intervention" that took place at a mutual friends house). I stood my ground, refused to spend the holiday with the family, and this is the end result. My husbands friend said to me at that time, why do you always have to swallow your pride and they just keep treating you like crap and it's supposed to be ok? Honestly, it's reached a point where I'm bordering on despising them, but I think that's a good thing because a healthy attitude in this situation can only be one of, "I don't give a crap" what they think. silversword, your response made me laugh. I wonder what they'd do if I plugged my ears and did the, "la la la la la la la la" as I walk away. *Chuckle*

Hi all, I'm new. I just want to say that many of the issues you mention really aren't YOUR issues. Things like her fraudulant lawsuits for example. I have an ex who's always frauding someone...but it's not my problem. The system will catch up and when it does, they'll have to pay somehow. You need to focus on dealing with the children when they're in your care, and disregard what they do in her care, unless they're in danger. You seem to have stopped the spanking but maybe you should make their Dad handle all the discipline. You could even try a "wait until your father gets home" stance when they are in your care and your husband is away. Once you stop engaging with them, they will stop engaging with you. You've only been married two years, so you have a long road ahead. Your nit-picky issues are just that, little nit-picky issues. I'd blow them off and laugh it off as a jealous bio-mom...those do exists sometimes. You know YOU and those around you know YOU...don't waste your time focusing on what she says or does. Keep documenting everything and always anticipate the worst, but hope for the best. If the relationship with the girls is broken, I'd really try mending it. If you're interested in some ways, let me know, maybe we can get creative. If you plan to stay married, you really need to get along with his kids, they don't go away after they turn 18, only the CS.

Firstly, about that episode where your bio father suggested sex: you had no way to know to anticipate it, & you had no way to control or stop it. Although it *is* obnoxious, offensive, & disgusting to you & to me, it sometimes happens when bio family members meet for the first time as adults, so much so that counsellors now warn adult children who are meeting their birth parent(s) for the first time to be prepared. & your bio father's family troubles belong to him & to them, not to you. If anything, it sounds like your father brought you into the family to be used as leverage. Dispicable, but the responsibility & the shame belong to your bio father & not to you. Cut yourself free from that particular chain & don't look back. Today is what matters, & you & your children are living under unbearable stress, in a hostile environment, & you're all paying a terrible price. "He thinks I'm evil" is *not* the description of someone you can afford to turn your back on, let alone trust, let alone spend your life with. (note: He doesn't think you're "evil"; he knows that saying that will shatter you, & that's why he does it.) He's been lying to you & manipulating you since before you were married, his family sounds like a co-dependent, disfunctional mess, & sending copies of the facebook pages to all of them sounds like that you've been caught in the same web, going to everybody else for vindication or action instead of dealing with the one person who's actually accountable. If your husband doesn't have any consequences for continuing to behave as he always has behaved, *nothing will change*. He's entirely comfortable, even happy, with his life, he doesn't care that you're unhappy, & he controls you by striking at your most vulnerable points; why would he change anything? It's like raising a child; if you say, "do that one more time & you're losing computer priveleges for a week", & the child does it again, you *have* to take away computer priveleges for a week, or you're just teaching the child that (s)he doesn't have to pay attention to anything you say/threaten, that you're powerless, that (s)he can do *anything* & the worst that will happen is that you'll yell. If you tell your husband that he has to treat you with the respect to which anyone is entitled or you & the children are leaving, & then he says something obnoxious or betrays you by talking to his family about you or does any single obnoxious thing, you *have* to take those kids & leave. (In fact, at this point, I think you have to take the kids & leave anyway; your life & their lives are being corroded every day that you spend in the environment controlled by your husband & his family.) Although it isn't your fault, although you've been manipulated to think you "can't" do anything because you somehow bear the responsibility for his behavior, so far, you've been like the parent who threatens but does not act. Even if your husband never hits you, he's abusing you: A person who controls another person by manipulation, who calls her "evil", who blames her for his own behavior...is an abuser. Get some professional legal help, get some psychological help (abusers *never* go to counselling; they don't want any interference), investigate what kind of help is available for abused wives, & get your kids & get out of there. I wish you the very best.