Here we go again. Hop on, whoever wants to, but this is so bogus.

Well...divorce sounds like a good plan.
Counselling is a good plan too. If there is a child involved then you must try to resolve issues for her sake.

Stop all the dramas and calm down...for her sake.

Child is number one here, not you and not your wife.

If you can't get past your wife's affair then divorce is the right thing to do. You both have a right to be happy and it isn't going to happen for you in this marriage. Nor is it good for your child to be raised in a home that has so much turmoil or Hell as you put it. NancyLouise

Not bogus at all. But thanks anyway.I will look for advice elsewhere.

Shattered, sorry. Seems like when anyone new posts they get accused of being a troll :0(

Sorry for your pain, I have no advice to offer but hang in here, others will chime in I am sure.

~Cat

Why in the world is the kneejerk reaction now to assume that a post is bogus? How rude.

Shattered, yours is a sad situation. I think divorce should be a last resort; people who have committed to each other should do what they can to uphold those commitments. However, your wife has breached her's. It's unfortunate that a child is involved. But as said above, if you can't get past the affair(s), move on.

OK, then, it's real he says.

Sir, your wife is a lying, self-interested sleaze who doesn't give rip about you or your child. I understand your fantasy is gone. You, apparently, do not. Your post is a litany of self-answering questions.

"What do I do?" He asks. I would suggest distancing yourself from this demonstrated predator. You're not going to counsel yourself our of this one unless you're willing to take more drugs than I'll bet you are.

Yo, suzieque. The thing is transparent. And you wouldn't know "rude" if you woke up in bed with it.

The fact that she was planning on being in a "fantasy threesome" scares me more than just a regular affair. With a regular affair there are often/generally marriage problems that may be able to be worked on and resolved... with this threesome stuff, I have a feeling your wife has deeper problems that don't stem from your marriage issues.

I mean, she's married with a child and she's posing and sending nude pictures of herself with a nude friend to a guy?

Honesty isn't all it's cracked up to be... She's gonna lie to protect you and save herself because, let's face it, you're lying too....you're not going to for sure stay if she tells you the whole truth, right? Anyway, her feelings about the last affair may well be true for her.

And, hey don't ask what you may not want/need to know...Did you really need to call the guy and find out all the little specifics..where the affair was going on, etc... it may be too much to handle all at once. There's something about not knowing everything that may have made it a little easier on you.

Maybe give it some time... have you considered separating instead of divorce... Do you still love her?

:-)

Well, if nothing else, asolo, you certainly can be entertaining. I wonder why you hang out at this forum so much. I really don't care, though.

Shattered, if you step out of the forest and look at the trees, I think you'll see your answers.

"I wonder why you hang out at this forum so much."

Upon your notice, so do I. Think I'll disappear for a while. I suspect the world will continue turning without my assistance.

LOL. Why do any of us hang out at this forum so much? I don't notice any of us having marital problems of our own (at least that we'd like to share:) so what gives?

OP, your story just doesn't "ring" true. Perhaps you are omitting... who knows. But starting with the fact that you picked up your wife's phone because it was "ringing off the hook" and then "found" pictures of her. I pick up my DH's phone all the time. I never look at his picture files.

Your wife sounds immature. Models are some of the least secure women I know. It's not improbable she will feel unattractive.

What do you do? Well, you accept that she's a liar and won't stop lying and go to counseling, or you get a divorce. Are you willing to go do "fantasy threesomes"? If not, I think a divorce is probably a wise choice.

People who marry before they have their wild oats will likely not be happy. She obviously wants to rock that bod before she's old. Shoulda done it before she got married and had kids though. For the past 4 years she's been cheating and lying. That's 40% of your relationship. Was the other 60% good enough for you to trust her again?

By the way, get tested for STD's.

You really can't blame Asolo for getting cranky, the intelligence level of some of these posts is alarming. Not that we ALL haven't made fools of ourselves at least once for love. But some of this stuff is just so weird that you have to wonder if it's real.

On the other hand, it's very easy to see what "other people" should do to solve their problems. She cheats, divorce her. He drinks, leave him. We have zip emotions tied into it so we don't feel their pain. I think these people come here to ask for support - or maybe to blow smoke up our skirts, who knows? It keeps us off the streets and is more interesting than watching TV. Maybe we should all be like chimps or something and forget love, marriage, relationships and the whole lot.

Now that made me hungry for a banana. Wonder if we have any?

I guess when i read these type of posts I think that everything is relative. some of the stuff I read is so out there that nothing I ever experienced in my life comes close...married people send naked pics of themselves and their friends to other people and arrange threesomes, and then their spouses wonder what do about it...some husbands rub other men's arms and get drunk at funerals and go sleep with other men they just met and then again spouses ask: what should i do? I always thought my marriage was nto good and that's why i got divorced. In comparison to all this my marriage was excellent. maybe I had to stay married...LOL

FD, I think probably more marriages have these kind of issues than any of us can imagine. I guess some of us have lower tolerance levels for BS than others :)

I guess I feel that if you're here to pass judgement on those that post, that's not a good thing. There's much too much of that going on.

Yes, there are some issues being posted that seem foreign to many, and the answers seem easy and transparent. The people are coming here for help. If it were easy for them they wouldn't ask. To assume that they're trolls or blind does nothing to help and is insulting, so just SOB. Just because our marriages may not have this type of problem doesn't mean that they don't exist.

Shattered,
If your wife is truly sorry, and if she is ready to start being transparent, my recommendation is to work it out. She'll need to do a few things: cut off all communication with the lover and with her girlfriend. If she is willing to go to great lengths to prove her commitment to you in this way, and to also attend counseling with you to figure out what went wrong, then you have the opportunity to create a healthy relationship.

Typically after an affair is discovered, the lies continue for a little while. Normal - painful though.

Sorry you're going through it - it's everyone's nightmare but it is healable if both of you are committed to it - totally healable.

If someone sends her naked pictures around and plans threesomes, it is beyond "what went wrong" issue. It is not a typical affair.

FD, I think "typical" is changing. Threesomes became very popular when I was in highschool. I would not be surprised if that is a very common make/break issue with marriages today. Bi-sexuality is now very "normal". Also, with the new cameras and the non-issue of development at outside locations (no stigma of having to send those nude pictures off to get developed!) times they are a changin'.

Bisexuality is not a behavior, it is who people are, it is neither normal nor abnormal, it is what it is, nothing to do with threesomes. Bisexual people are attracted to both sexes, does not mean they cheat or have threesomes.

Of course threesomes are not something never heard off (I am much older than you so I have to tell you it was popular before you were at high school), but generally people who love to arrange threesomes and post their naked pics are not much of a marriage material, at least not at that point of their lives.

Would you want to be married to someone who secretly arranges threesomes and posts naked pics? I don't. I do not understand why people suggest this marriage needs to be saved. But oh well. It is just me.

LOL. Bisexuality can be a behavior. Lots of girls kiss one another just for the reaction of guys. It doesn't mean they want to be in a relationship with women and men. Unless you've been under a rock the past 5 years I think you'll notice being gay or bi is "popular" right now. Not to say that gay is a choice for all, but it truly is for some.

I know threesomes were around before I was born. I'm aware that prior to the 70's there were the free-wheelin' 60's and before that the 20's were a pretty rarin' place to be too :)

My point is that things have changed. In the 80's promiscuous sex was not popular because everyone was so scared of AIDS. In the late 90's it surged again, and bi-sexuality/more risky sex became popular again. It became more socially acceptable to have threesomes (unlike the key-swapping days you're probably familiar with).

What I'm saying is that I think it is more common (or at least more talked about) for people to have more adventurous adultery than the plain old "I'm sleeping with the repair boy" that went on with my parents.

"Would you want to be married to someone who secretly arranges threesomes and posts naked pics?"

Nope. I divorced my X because of his philandering ways. And I don't recommend this marriage be saved. I just wonder what references you have for a "typical affair"? The ones you know about??

I would say right now a typical affair is a man getting some from a prostitute or dancer (if TV is to be trusted) or a congressman to be getting some gay sex. But what do I know?

Well bi-sexual I don't think so but I have been wrong alot.My wife is in counceling and the girlfriend is gone.My wife has begged to come back home and says she will do anything it takes to repair the damage she has done.She truly seems sorry but I still don't know if these are things I will ever be able to forgive.On the other hand when we are together and things are good they are real good. Thank most of ya'll for a little insight,I know I am still not thinking clearly so it does help to hear input from people on the outside.

(Dont' mean to hijack, but actually yes I do. Sexuality is an identity, not a behavior. Flip it around: there are lots of gay men who are married, living heterosexual lives, even though they aren't heterosexual. plenty of people experiment without the identity piece - for lots of reasons.) -

I'm prone to vote for relationships to be worked out even when serious problems ignite, so long as the offender is repentant and willing to do whatever it takes to repair.

"Bisexuality can be a behavior. Lots of girls kiss one another just for the reaction of guys. "

sigh...what you described it is not bisexuality, it is either experimenting or having fun or getting revenge etc Heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality are not behaviors, but are sexual identities. sigh...It is exhausting really, just pick some decent literature on a topic, I know you are young but you often sound naive in your posts like a 16-year-old, you can't be that young.

I am 38 and she is 31. I guess I am naive. I never thought my wife could do anything like this. I always saw her as a good girl. I have never been cheated on in the past (that I know of) and did not see any signs of what was going on.Our sex life was very healthy,we were together in our free time and we had a great social life.
I have never cheated and no intrest in other women in that way.I thought my wife was the most beautiful woman I had ever met and when we had our daughter it even made her more attractive to me.I thought of her as my very best friend. But from what everyone is telling me I was blind to the fact she is just a piece of trash and I should get rid of her.

Shattered, finedreams wasn't referring to you when she said naive and young; she was referring to something said by someone else.

Back to you. You are the one who knows your wife best and are best equipped to make the decision. We don't know her at all, just what you've said. Your last sentence: "But from what everyone is telling me I was blind to the fact she is just a piece of trash and I should get rid of her." makes me sad, because that's the majority of the response here but it doesn't mean it's true.

I happen to think it's true ... but only because of the picture you've painted us. You know what other things go on, how she truly is behaving, and whether you will trust her. We don't.

In your first post you said "won't stop lying,she crys,she begs forgivness,she does all the things I read a truly sorry spouse would do but won't stop lying. " Well, has she stopped lying now? If you think yes, then maybe you have a chance. If not, then how can you possibly proceed?

Again - look and watch closely. If you truly know her you'll be able to know if she's being genuine. Don't decide she's being genuine just because you want so badly for her to be. But don't decide she's trash just because a bunch of strangers on the internet have interpreted it that way.

Good luck.

Shattered, I think FD was saying that I'm the immature-sounding one. :) I don't think your wife is a piece of trash. I think she has a lot to figure out (like how she wants to live her life and what she wants out of it) and you need to decide if you are willing to go down that path with her. "know my friends, know me" and all... her friend may not be your favorite person but it says a lot about who your wife is. The biggest problem IMO is the lies. EVERYONE makes mistakes. (granted, some of us would never consider sending naked pictures of ourselves to anyone!) But, you can overcome this if you want to. Marriages have withstood worse. Will she lie again? Who knows... Is she so insecure that she will do this sort of thing again? Will you have to support her fragile ego forever? When you say "good girl" do you think this was just an image she was trying to cultivate because she knew you wanted that "kind" of girl? And now she's reverting back to her true self?

What do you want??? Because she's not the girl you thought she was. Are you willing to go on this journey with her? It could be long and painful and you could get nothing but pain from it. And you could end up a very strong couple because of it. I suggest counseling, independently and then together. All with the same person. Find someone you are both comfortable with. And get tested. Please get tested for STD's.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You got me FD. I'm 16 :) And I'm a boy. I just post here to see what I can stir up.

AMY:" Sexuality is an identity, not a behavior."

FINEDREAMS: "sigh...what you described it is not bisexuality, it is either experimenting or having fun or getting revenge etc Heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality are not behaviors, but are sexual identities. sigh..."

The Alliance of Lesbian-Bisexual-Gay-Transgendered-Straight-Ally Students

"Bisexuality means sexual or romantic attraction or behavior directed towards some members of more than one sex.Definitions for "a bisexual" are suggested above - all relating to attraction and behaviour. "Bisexual" (and the short form, "bi) is sometimes used as an adjective, to describe a bisexual person. However, many people who exhibit bisexual behavior do not identify as bisexual; and other people may identify as bisexual for reasons other than those suggested in the narrow definitions of section A2. In other words, bisexual identity and bisexual behaviour are not necessarily the same thing."

Well, SIGH back at you FD. I practically grew up in PFLAG meetings. Bisexuality often is just a behavior. Been to college much? 1/2 the girls "experimenting" are doing it not because they are sexually identifying with bisexuality but because they discovered it makes the guys hot.

Yes, there are many bisexuals who identify with (are genetically predestined) to have feelings of attraction for both sexes. I am of the opinion that more people are bisexual than not but most people do not act on their feelings because culture/religion are such deterrents.

I stand by my original statement. Any person who is arranging a threesome with a member of the same sex and a member of the opposite sex is arranging to have a bisexual encounter. This would be acting out a bisexual behavior. It doesn't matter if the girls only have intercourse with the guy and only touch the guy, they are still engaging in sexual activity with another woman. Bisexual behavior.

Your correct,The lies are the worst.I am told one thing and when I look into it I find more to the story.That has prompted me to look further and then once I find the whole truth I am told she just wanted to save my feelings and to not make things worse. We are currently seeing a counsler together and apart but it hasen't even scratched the surface yet.We both were tested two days following the truth coming out about the affair and both fine. The good girl image I refer to isn't Suzie Q Homemaker,we are a fun and energetic couple and travel,party,gamble,and go to concerts together.I simply meant I thought her morales would not be that low as to betray our marriage.
Nobody worry about me making a decision based soley from an internet forum.I simple have nobody to talk to other than my counsler because I don't want to trash her to my friends and family.It kinda leaves one alone for all but 2 hours a week. That part really sucks too.

shattered, I absolutely do not mean you are naive, i was referring to a poster who sometimes expresses very naive views on things.

i do think your wife is not a marriage material, she is not very honest and her integrity and morality are not conducive to married life, or any kind of life. It sounds like you an honest person and i think you deserve better that what you are getting. I am glad you are seeing a therapist. I hope it is going to help.

finedreams said what I was thinking all along. Your wife lacks honesty, integrity, and engages in less then moral behavior. Not someone I would be married to, I wouldn't be able to trust her. You also have to consider your child. Is this the type of home you want her to grow up in? What you want her to see? Even at her young age she can feel the tension in the household. Happy to read you are going for counseling, but I would move on from your present wife. NancyLouise

My friend, the solution is simple, the only thing she is sorry about is getting caught, and believe me it will happen again as soon as things calm down, only next time she will be more careful. She will say anything to soothe things over and avoid getting dumped. The only solution is to kick her to the curb and move on.

I am glad that there are more people here who see what's happening as a huge problem. I hope that OP does listen to it.

I think promiscuity and dishonesty are wrong at any age (again has nothing to do with the person being bisexual-bisexuality has nothing to do with poor moral character), but when you become a parent and made marriage commitment it is double wrong, and repeated dishonesty is a good indication that it is not going to stop.

Your young daughter does not need to stay in this kind of environment unless you want her to mimic mom's behavior, and that's what usually happens.

Finedreams, I want to reiterate how this conversation/disagreement between you and I started:

* Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Mon, May 10, 10 at 19:44

If someone sends her naked pictures around and plans threesomes, it is beyond "what went wrong" issue. It is not a typical affair.

* Posted by silversword (My Page) on Tue, May 11, 10 at 15:24

FD, I think "typical" is changing. Threesomes became very popular when I was in highschool. I would not be surprised if that is a very common make/break issue with marriages today. Bi-sexuality is now very "normal". Also, with the new cameras and the non-issue of development at outside locations (no stigma of having to send those nude pictures off to get developed!) times they are a changin'.

* Posted by finedreams (My Page) on Tue, May 11, 10 at 18:15

Bisexuality is not a behavior, it is who people are, it is neither normal nor abnormal, it is what it is, nothing to do with threesomes. Bisexual people are attracted to both sexes, does not mean they cheat or have threesomes.

Of course threesomes are not something never heard off (I am much older than you so I have to tell you it was popular before you were at high school), but generally people who love to arrange threesomes and post their naked pics are not much of a marriage material, at least not at that point of their lives.

Would you want to be married to someone who secretly arranges threesomes and posts naked pics? I don't. I do not understand why people suggest this marriage needs to be saved. But oh well. It is just me.

You said "not typical affair" because of pictures and threesome. I said, "typical" is changing. As bisexuality becomes more acceptable in our society and as multimedia makes photography/video that would previously "typically" (prior to 2000) not be shared (at least as easily); the behaviors that constitute a typical affair change.

I never said that bisexuals have threesomes, are cheaters, that bisexuality is only a behavior, that it was ok for his wife to be doing what she did or anything else you put in my mouth and pointed fingers and called me naive.

My point is, "typical" is one of those words that means absolutely nothing unless everyone is standing in the same little circle. Depending on your age, socioeconomic status, location in the world, upbringing, etc.... what constitutes a "typical" affair will vary.

Much as the interpretation of a "typical rainstorm". Once it starts sprinkling here in So. Cal. it's "pouring". Where I'm from, there has to be at least a foot of water on the ground before anyone begins commenting that it's raining hard.

I agree with you that "promiscuity and dishonesty are wrong at any age" and again, I never said that bisexuals have poor moral character. It is becoming a lot more common, or at least a lot more people feel comfortable admitting to it. Thus, I believe bisexual "affairs" are becoming more "typical" than the "normal" (lol) affair.

That a common problem in western countries. I think reason is that there is not so good family system. What do you think?

I think your implied assumption that the people of Qatar have no such issues is likely mistaken. And I think suzieque is likely going to be in my face again.

Nope, not at all asolo. Seeing that hitmark has decided to answer everyone else's (old) threads but not responded to the questions on the thread he/she started, I think he/she is, in fact, not looking for advice. That doesn't change what I said about courtesy and your approach (btw, there is nothing offensive about what you just wrote here), but hitmark seems to have answers for everyone else's problem (and yes, hitmark, the "common problem" that you refer to is global, not just western.

I don't mind at all what hitmark -- or anyone else -- brings up. Certainly would be a wonderful thing if it was comprehensible, however. I think maybe he's just practicing emerging English language skills.

I remember a line from one of Jeremy Irons' earliest movies. "Moonlighting" about some Polish workmen who came to England to renovate a party boss's townhouse. Irons' character says: "I speak the language. That's why they picked me for the job. But I don't know what they really mean." I think that's about where hitmark is at.