What major city do you live near? I think you live in a mild climate. If that is the case my initial reaction the furnace and AC are over sized.

The prices are high, but in your area they may be typical. It is disappointing having to pay this kind of money and the contractor won't do a load calculation.

The Carrier Comfort series is the low end of the equipment line up. The Infinity series is the high end, the Performance series (which was not quoted) is the mid range. You quotes do not include a coil or a thermostat so they are incomplete in my opinion. Get a quote from another Carrier dealer to confirm these prices. Bryant is the sister company and sells the same equipment under the Bryant label. Bryant tends to be a little cheaper.

I get the feeling this contractor does not want to deal with permits so he is telling you it is going to cost you another $1,000. Call your municipality and ask what permits are required and how much they cost. I think it is a bit much to ask for an additional $150 to fill out the paper work. I am not sure how the HERS testing works. It would think you would want this done regardless whether you had a permit or not.

My suggestion is to get additional quotes and with a least one who will do a load calculation. Your quotes need to list all the equipment that is being installed along with the AHRI directory number. This number confirms the equipment is an approved match the manufacturer and will list the SEER and EER ratings of the combined equipment. Others things that should be quoted are the type of filter and whether the line set (copper tubing from indoor coil to the outside condenser) will be replaced.

Thanks, Mike - I was trying to not re-type everything in the quote, but it does specify replacement of the copper tubing, as well as a thermostat (no model spec'd) and coil ("matching ADP coil"). We're not near a major city - we're 30 miles from most anything here, and about 70 miles east of San Francisco, in the San Joaquin valley.

There is a mid-grade quote; right in the middle at $11k. DIdn't add any value to the questions, IMO.

We do live in a fairly mild climate - lows are typically 28F in January, and highs are typically a few days of 100+F. The house has a LOT of windows, but is oriented to avoid direct sunlight in the windows at peak times of day.

We are getting other quotes. Haven't found anyone who carries Bryant, Amana, Rudd or York yet.

Permits are typical CA issues - people don't want to get them, because they're expensive. $150 for paperwork is their way to discourage you from getting them; no one here wants to be standing in line with the county when they could be installing another system.

We have contacted 5+ HVAC pros, and NO ONE will do a load calc. It would take a couple of hours of measuring, and again - everyone would rather be on to the next job, instead of still talking to someone who might not buy from them. (If it were my business, I'd credit any signing client with a discount equal to the time charge for the load calc; a refundable deposit, so to speak). But nope; no one will do one. Closest we've gotten is the "1 ton for every 500 SF" conversation.

Thanks so much!

We had looked at doing the load calc ourselves, but we don't know what R-value the house's exterior walls are insulated with, etc.

Ugh - why can't people actually do a thorough job anymore?! I never knew I was going to have to be a plumbing, drywall, window, HVAC, insulation specialist!

If your house was built with 2X4 construction then walls R11 - R13. Start there and see what are the cooling and heating loads. Then you can decrease the insulation and see how much they increase. You may still bet at the same equipment size even with reduced wall insulation values. Even if you have to estimate values it is still better than using rules of thumb.

LOL... how do you know the walls are not R9 or R19?

Time to call Superman. ( you need x-ray vision)

Guessing is so much fun that's why we rename this word as 'estimate' to make us sound so official. Mike you are a riot.

PS: the house is 32 years old... it could be R6.

Then enter R6, R9, and R19 and see how it affects the results. Most of the work is the time spent doing all the measurements and entering the data. Once that is done then changing the value of the wall insulation should not be too difficult.

What do you do in these situations? What software do you use to do your calculations?

California changed the code in 1978, and again in 1985. Our house was built in 1985. For the 1978 standard, R-19 would have been the minimum, so that's what we're assuming, since the walls were probably closed up in 1984, and occupancy was certified in 1985.

Google is my friend. :-)

mike_home,

Of course you are correct that one should make their best estimate of wall R Value. To give up on the notion of doing a load calc because the home is "old" is nonsensical and shows a lack of knowledge of the process.

When the calc is complete, one can look at the "shaky" inputs and do a sensitivity analysis to see what the effect of the shaky wall R Value has on the total load Calc.

It may turn out that Wall R Value has very little effect on the answer.

"For the 1978 standard, R-19 would have been the minimum..."

Oh, so it could not be R-6.