RdR is not a moss. This is definitely not RdR and most probably is an once blooming OGR.

'Henri Martin' was my first thought, too. It makes a big gangly semi-climber and is very mossy. Go take a look on HelpMeFind. And keep sniffing.

Even if the scent is not the same or as pronounced as your other moss, this is definitely a moss. A beautiful one! Maybe you can call them and see what moss roses they have or had.

I also thought about 'Henri Martin' first, but the foliage in the above pix looks narrower than in the photos for 'HM'. Looking at HMF photos, there seems to be more than one rose going by 'Maréchal Davoust, but they all show narrower leaves. I also thought about 'Old Red Moss', but I don't think RVR carries it.

Perhaps your rose does have the rounded leaflets, and I'm just not seeing them in your photos? Or perhaps round leaflets come with maturity, and your rose isn't there yet?

Whatever you've got, it's a lovely rose.

Virginia

Sorry about muddying the waters with my Rose de Rescht comment. As Nik says, most definitely not a moss. I'm assuming that Lisa's rose is a spring-bloomer only, but it is a gorgeous thing. Love the purply-pink coloring.

I'm so frustrated with my iPhone! I can't seem to sign in to my account. GRRRR Anyway, I had about convinced myself last night that I have Henri Martin. Amazing quick ID, Carol! Chris' link to RVR moss roses really helped me narrow things down. The fact that it only had two ff for fragrance convinced me further. Help Me Find says excellent heat tolerance. So off to sleep I go, thinking I am the proud owner of the heat tolerant moss, Henri Martin.

Ah, but how things can change overnight. I came outside this morning with my coffee, and the petals had dropped off 2 of the blooms. The third was hanging on yet, but it was clearly a lilac color with a pale center. One of the new buds had opened and I can't really call it red. It is more of a super dark pink/cerise/leaning towards the violet spectrum. I detect a light baby powder scent this morning in the newly opened bud.

I don't know what to do first, go back to RVR moss roses list, or go back to messing with my phone, so I can post the new pictures. Very frustrated with that thing right now. Have a lovely day all! Lisa

On some mosses the moss actually has a scent of its own, sort of like pine resin. You might touch the moss and see...

Your mystery rose is SO exciting!

Lisa, it sometimes just takes time for a rose to show its "true colors" in so many ways. I know you've had it a while, but if it's only just gotten to the point of blooming, it's still not really a mature rose, and may look (& smell) different again next spring.

It's nice to have some suggestions so you know what to keep an eye out for, but you may not be able to make a positive ID yet.

Good luck with the phone. Technology is great when it works... sigh...

Virginia

Virginia, RVR sells "Henri Martin (Old Red Moss)", but I think you are right. They probably carry Henri Martin which is, I have gleaned, Red Moss not Old Red Moss. Ever since I discovered that Henri and ORM are two distinct roses, I've been trying to untangle which nursery carries what. Heirloom sells Red Moss not Old Red Moss, but the foliage in the website photos seems to be more elongated and somewhat lighter green than HMF Henri photos. What I perceive doesn't match my understanding that Red Moss is synonymous with Henri, but photos ARE tricky things. Actually, to my eye, Heirloom's foliage looks like a pretty good match for your rose's, Lisa. FYI, the website of Hedgerow Rose discusses the whole messy mystery and also offers some nice foliage and bloom photos. Other thoughts on Lisa's rose, Henri Martin, RM, ORM? Carol

Lisa, I just caught your "lilac" remark. (I had paused in my reply about the same time you submitted a comment.) Could you post a photo? Don't fret about ID. It will come in time. In the meantime, know that you have a GREAT rose!! Carol

If I were narrowing down potential IDs, I'd use the RVR website as a guide to list all red/cerise to deep pink mosses, keeping in mind the newly emerging lilac tones. RVR carries a limited number of matches. For instance, William Lobb might be a deep reddish pink fading to mauve possibility. WL can lean toward pink/cerise in warmer, sunnier climates and purplish/mauve in cooler, cloudier climates. Carol

Oh, yes. I see! There are a few RVR mauve possibilities. I've drooled over them ALL at one time or another. I think there's a fairly good chance you have Wm. Lobb, but time will tell. WL will become fragrant as he matures, although I find his scent does vary with time of day, weather and age of bloom. I'm a big fan of all things moss! I hope your rose thrives in your climate. It's a lovely one!

I'm celebrating your success in repairing the Houzz account sheboozle. I can't access my account from my old Mac anymore and have resigned myself to iPhone posting and commenting. Sigh. Carol

Its not 'William Lobb' unless it turns slate grey/purple just as it finishes.

Also, 'William Lobb' is an aggressive grower that throws 10 foot canes as it matures. That trait alone is a giveaway.

Carol, I'm willing to bet that some roses pictured at HMF as 'Red Moss' AKA 'Henri Martin' are actually 'Old Red Moss' and vice versa. That's the sort of thing to puzzle over if you want to make yourself crazy. Almost as crazy-making as trying to distinguish crimson Chinas from each other...

Will RVR help to ID their mystery roses if you e-mail photos?

Virginia

Virginia, thank you for the heads up about a potentially crazy-making enterprise!

RVR might help with ID, but if not, it's probably the time and labor factor that prevents it. I actually spoke with Janet Inada a week or two ago. It sounds like things are very hectic at RVR. There are staff changes due to good circumstances, not unpleasant ones. I can't remember exactly what she said. Maybe a marriage and a move? That sort of thing. I'm guessing Lisa will be solving the mystery on her own...with a little help from her friends. :-) Carol

Lisa, just a few more thoughts as I've pondered your mystery rose over late morning tea

(1) Deuil de Paul Fontaine. The foliage in your top photo is quite similar. The bottom a little less so. I don't currently grow him, but I believe his fragrance is modest. His blooms present in the crimson-deep pink-purple range and generally resemble your lower ones. I don't recall him turning grey as Wm. Lobb does, so maybe that will also serve as a clue. He is a significantly smaller plant than WL. I know RVR carries him.

(2) Capitaine John Ingram. I know RVR also carries this moss. His coloring falls in the same general range and doesn't fade to grey. His blooms are a little fuller and more formal than yours, but your plant is young. Who knows what may later develop? CJI grows larger that DdPF, but remains smaller than Wm. Lobb. He is quite fragrant and healthy. I have a young Capitaine in my pot nursery. For what it's worth, I'll post foliage photos. If he blooms this year, I'll post another photo. RVR carries CJI.

(3) RVR carries Paul Barden's Nightmoss, and I grow this one. It's lovely and purple and fragrant, but I don't see a match. Paul would be the best source to confirm my impression or contradict it.

(4) Nuits de Young. RVR carries it. I've never seen a Nuits de Young that's quite as pink as your mauve beauty, but everything is different in California. (I believe you are in CA?) Nuits is quite fragrant. The bloom form could match yours. Nuits can grow into a substantial plant. I have a baby Nuits in my pot nursery, but it has barely awakened. I can post foliage photos later if you'd like. Others on the forum probably have more mature plants to compare.

Whatever cultivar you have, I suspect it's something which ignites pining in hearts of all the moss rose lovers on the forum who are interminably waitlisted at specialty rose nurseries across the country! :-) Apologies for any overly enthusiastic replies. Your post taps into my passion!

Carol

Capitaine John Ingram foliage.

I grow Deuil de Paul Fontaine, however I purchased it as a 5 gallon grafted plant from The Huntington two Falls ago. I can't help with how it may look as a small own root plant in regards to habit or foliage appearance, but I generally find it to be moderately to quite fragrant, tending towards the latter. The plant itself is smaller, with a very upright habit.

I wouldn't expect the canes of a smaller DdPF to appear that gangly, but I could be mistaken. I have a small own-root Alfred de Dalmas that is very upright in its habit as well, but it suckers for a wider profile.

All of the suggestions and pictures make me believe the mystery rose is some sort of climbing or larger shrubbed moss. Henri Martin would not be a shock.

And I forgot to mention the obvious, Deuil de Paul Fontaine reblooms reliably. It could take time, but if it hasn't shown signs of reblooming yet, it may simply be a once bloomer.

I very much doubt that is 'Deuil de Paul Fontaine', and it is definitely not 'Nightmoss'. Both 'Nuits de Young' and 'Capitaine John Ingram' frequently appear in catalogs under each other's name and as "Common Moss" and other names. In other words, I don't think anyone can say for sure which - if any - plants labeled as either of those two are correct.

However, in my experience, both of those roses start out as deep crimson blooms that quickly age to a dark royal purple. Not pinkish-lavender, not magenta-red, but deep royal purple. See: http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.250350

The rose Lisa depicted in the opening post is very much like the rose that is commonly distributed as "Common Red Moss" aka 'Henri Martin'. Sometimes it starts out an old-fashioned muted red, and sometimes it starts out a reddish-magenta and ages to more of a purplish light red. It is what they call "mutable". However, there are probably a dozen distinct varieties circulating under that name too.

I think it may take time and more maturity before we know exactly what I have here. I am however, thrilled with it. I remember posting it as a tiny band about 2 years ago and wondering what it might be, as the foliage already looked special to me. Someone commented that RVR mystery roses usually turned out to be the very common, less desirable roses, so don't expect much. Glad to see that wasn't the case.

I keep going back and forth, thinking I might have a possible ID, and then something discredits it. The description of Cesonie on RVR seemed right. When I did some further investigating, the color comments were spot on. Then every photo I saw of Cesonie was nowhere near the same flower form. These are more " loosely double" , no button eye, no petal packing. I cut a few and brought them inside along with a few (hopefully) recognizable roses for color comparison. Lisa

Above left is Yves Piaget middle two the Moss in question, Louise Odier squeezed in on the right.

True red Eugene Furst on top, then Yves Piaget, then the two moss roses to the side.

Louise Odier bottom right, Violets Pride above her, the moss rosses to the left of them.

Lisa

I have found that color and bloom form can change as the bush matures. Sometimes the first bloom on a young rose is not reliable for ID yet.

Yes, I think it's a wait and see rose. Here it is this evening.

My head is spinning, but I love your rose, Lisa, and not just the bloom, but the mossing, too. I hope you solve the mystery, but it looks like you're enjoying your rose meanwhile. Diane

It's lovely, Lisa! I'm still celebrating that your mystery is a moss. :-) I'm also still leaning toward Henri Martin as an ID, but time will tell. Thank you for sharing your puzzle and your photos! Carol

Lisa, I have enjoyed the story of your rose and your efforts to identify it. I'm terrible at this game and have nothing to add but love a good mystery. Whatever your rose turns out to be, it's a winner as long as you have room for it. I hope you will continue to allow us to follow your search. This is fun!

I have Cesoine from RVR and it's much more pink that your first photo. I also have Nuits de Young and that seems darker, but it hasn't bloomed this year yet.

Yep, it's a fun mystery. As I tend to her/him each day, I call it " Mossy Wait and See". Henri Martin does seem to fit most closely, but it's just so purple looking most of the time. It also does not make a good cut flower. It withers and drops petals faster than an Austin. 1-2 days cut. Lisa

Hmm, just looking at my Cesoine and it's not that mossy. I wonder if mine is Cesoine? The one your buds most resemble is Nuits de Young.

Buford, could you post a pic of your Cesoine? I really thought mine might be Cesoine for a bit with the whole, "is it pink, purple, reddish?" comments attached to Cesoine. When I saw the pictures of the flower form though, I thought not. Of course, the really big factor is that it's two years old ( maybe a tad more), but this is its very first flowering. I know both the form and color may very well not be the final outcome. I am glad to know it at least is willing to bloom here in the land of no winter chill. I am quite impressed with its first flowering in the abundance of blooms! What a show for a first performance. No one or two teaser blooms from "Mossy Wait and See". There must be at least 50, if not more. It also seems to be an earlier bloomer than Salet. Salet is also potted, although in a much larger pot. She is just now forming her buds. They are all individual buds, not great big clusters, like this one. I don't know how that very first picture turned out so red. It has never looked that red to the naked eye, not once.

Carol, I'm glad for your enthusiasm and everyone else's. I'm having great fun with my "Mossy Wait and See" Rose.I hope no one is tired of pictures, because here come a few more. Lisa

Ummm, maybe not Henri. That batch of photos definitely captured a mauve moss. The blooms look like they might be doing that Wm. Lobb fade to lavender-grey thing.

Yes, Carol!!! I'm glad you see it. I think these pictures are the closest to the true color, yet. I only have my iPhone and it takes horrible pics in sunlight. This time I carried the whole pot over to the shady side of the house and took the photos without any sunlight interference. It really is a mauve(ish) rose more than anything else. Lisa

Here is the rose I have that was labelled Cesoine. The color is accurate.

Here is a bud. A little mossy, but not as much as yours.

An older bloom

Hmm, your right, not as mossy. Maybe not quite as mauve, either? To me it looks a little more pink. Yours does appear to be a cluster bloomer, yes? How old is it, Buford? You may have a mystery rose of your own there. Lisa

I've had it two years. I also have Bella Donna, Leda and Nuits du Young. I think those three are correct.

Oh, lucky you Buford. I've recently fallen in love with Leda. Such an unusual color pattern on the blooms. I was really happy and surprised to hear I could grow it here in So Cal. Nuts du Young is also absolutely beautiful. That's sure not a rose you see every day! Or in my case ever. I will have to look up Bella Donna, as I am totally unfamiliar with that one.

Do you have pictures posted of them anywhere on the forum? I would love to see any you might have. These roses are such treasures! If it weren't for the lack of space, energy, water, funds, and all that stuff, I would grow every single old rose that even had a chance at blooming here. Lisa

Be still my heart! Buford, thank you for that great picture of Leda. I have no business buying more roses, but I may have to break my self-imposed rule for this one. And of course it's not very economical to ship just one rose..... Lisa

Wow. That Leda is gorgeous. I might have to order one as well. I am not the best at identifying roses but this is my Henri Martin last year in case it's helpful.

Thank you, Michaela. Your picture of Henri Martin IS helpful. Even though my rose has never looked truly red, to my eye, your photo doesn't look true red either. It reminds me that my rose still could be Henri Martin. Do you remember if the blooms faded to purple/lilac? Did they have a real violet cast to them, more than red? Very heavy mossing? Clusters of 3-10 buds per stem? Sorry to bombard you with all the questions. Looking at your picture, it does look like my rose, other than mine being more lilac/purple. Lisa

Lisa, 'Henri Martin' is never a "true red" color. When blooms open on day one, it has a redder color than most OGR types of similar hue, but never, ever is it a modern HT red. Michaela's photo is quite accurate in its depiction of 'Henri Martin's color.

I translate the word "red" in OGR talk to "very dark pink". Carol

Thanks, Paul. It may very well be Henri Martin. It is great fun to explore the possibilities.

May I add that my Mel's Heritage is HUGE, and yesterday began blooming for the first time. I have purchased 6 of your roses and I consider them to be amongst my favorites. Lisa

Lisa, mine is definitely not true red either. It does remind me of your photos a lot. I can take some upclose photos of the foliage for you tonight if it would be helpful. I do believe they are very heavily mossed.

Last year was the first year it bloomed and I was bombarded with work and missed a lot of the blooming but I did snap that photo of it. Right as it bloomed I decided to tie the canes to the arbor you see because it was just draped along the ground. I do vaguely remember them fading to a bit of a purple, though I don't have a photo of it. I think it will look much nicer this year. I do remember it blooming in clusters a bit. I will make sure to take photos of it this year. It's a wonderful rose, if yours is HM you will continue to enjoy it!

Lisa, roses are like potato chips, you can't just get one. I am happy with Leda. I have it and the other once bloomers in a spot that doesn't get a lot of sun after the spring. She started to put out some longish canes so I did a reverse peg and brought some of the long canes up and fastened them at the top. I makes for a more compact bush and more blooms.

Thank you for saying so, Lisa! I'm glad you are enjoying 'Mel's Heritage'. I think it may just turn out to be one of the best things I bred.

Is it a Hanza? http://www.naturehills.com/rose-hansa-hybrid-rugosa/?c=7184962517&network=y&telnum=8446309802&campaign=Yahoo-Shrubs&utm_source=Yahoo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=hansa+rose&utm_campaign=Yahoo-Shrubs?campaign=Shrubs&c=7184962517&telnum=8448492966&matchtype=e&keyword=hansa+rose&network=s&placement=&rand=&adpos=

Hansa is a Rugosa not a Moss rose.