No personal experience with them. I would say that if you think vinyl is a terrible idea (right, wrong, or otherwise), I would engage your builder in a conversation about alternative products. If you are going to stay with a white window, it is tough to beat the price or performance of some of the higher end vinyl units. If you are in Western Michigan, I would suspect that temperatures are going to see some extremes and a tight and efficient triple pane option is not a bad consideration in this case. You want to build and outfit this home one time, I would spend a bit more on the right and proper efficiency unit.

I would also search around about air sealing and insulation and see if the builder will allow you to air seal the exterior walls prior to the insulation going up as well as interior walls.

Thank you. I appreciate your experience and would love to pick your brain a bit more if possible. When you say "higher end vinyl windows", which do you mean, specifically? In your experience, which are good performers? And which companies offer triple pane options?

I'm new to this, so other than following this site for a while (and having a bad experience with Norco several years ago and my current vinyl Jeldwens), I'm still learning and appreciate all of the great knowledge people on this site provide.

Lastly, when you talk about air sealing the walls, do you mean spray foam? I know my builder puts spray foam around every single window and door before installing the windows, but I'm not sure if that's what you're referring to.

Thanks in advance for your clarifications!

Sunrise Windows is locoated in Michigan and imo the best vinyl window out there. A great performer and aesthetics that rival most wood windows. The built on brick mold option is great for new construction. Almost any premium window would be available in triple pane

I should clarify Sunrise Restorations which is there best product

+1 on the Sunrise recommendation. Solid window and certainly one of the prettier vinyl units out there.

Here is a brief on air sealing: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/building_america/ba_airsealing_report.pdf

Air Sealing

Vinyl windows are very common in houses in that range, unfortunately most are using low end Windows.

Sunrise is nice, but there numbers are under the top performing vinyl brand.There casement is a nice window but I am not a fan of there double-hung.

Sunrise and other top brands are often only available through select dealers which can make availability and pricing inconsistent or unavailable.

Some better brands may be available from supply houses like ABC, United, Modern Builders,ect.

Are you installing double-Hungs or casement?

Mostly good advice above. Nothing at all wrong with vinyl windows in a high end home, but there is a vast difference in quality and performance from top to bottom, just let any other window material, or any other consumer product for that matter. Most of us advocate utilizing the independently tested thermal and structural performance data for comparison purposes. U value, SHGC, condensation resistance, air leakage, design pressure, VT. These are ratings that you will want to learn and review each product that you are considering accordingly. They will not only give you an idea of how you can expect the product to perform (with a good installation of course), but are also great indicators of quality. Great windows have great performance metrics.

As the others mentioned, Sunrise is a nice performer in your home state. I do agree with Todd though, I am a bit higher on their casement line than their double hungs. Still a good window though either way.

Wow! This is some great advice. I had never heard of Sunrise windows before, but will certainly check them out. Thank you so much.

Todd - in your opinion, what are some of the top performing vinyl window brands that I should look at, in addition to the Sunrise windows?

My house will likely have a combination of casements and double hungs, but mostly double hungs.

Windows on Washington - the article on air sealing is tremendous! Thank you so much. I've been reading it this afternoon and I realize I have a lot of things to ask my builder! I really appreciate the information!

Step 1: Don't ask your builder. These guys rarely know much about windows. It is not their fault to be fair, most buyers are only concerned with the tile selections, cabinet hardware, granite counter tops, etc. The fun stuff. Windows are an afterthought until they are in need of replacement 10 years later (and a service filled lifespan up until that point).

Do a bunch of research, pick a product or two that you like, and then tell your builder what you want. Be prepared, it will cost more than the garbage that he figured in, but in the long run it will not as a good window will last 30+ years, not 10.

Also, is there a website that rates vinyl windows based on U factor, etc?

http://search.nfrc.org/search/Searchdefault.aspx

This is about the only resource for that but the amount of data is to much to search unless you know exactly what your looking for

Okna,Soft-Lite, Kensington,Richlin, Polaris might all be available to you. You might find that some of these are only available to authorized dealers who may or may not want to sell them with or without the installation. Pricing can vary quite a bit even with the same brand from dealer to dealer. A lot of mid grade vinyl windows are so much better than the Jeld-Wens, post back if you find something else out there.

You guys are all awesome! Thank you so much!

Next question: how does a high-end vinyl window compare to an Andersen 200, 400, or Marvin? I'm curious about performance, as well as price. (I understand, though, that prices will vary depending on the dealer. So just generally speaking, how do the prices compare?) And is the quality even in the same league?

Thanks, window gurus!

The 200/400 May compare on price the Marvins are usually more and even more depending on the line. If you figure in painting the interiors add even more. Performance wise high end vinyl wins easily. Quality wise I think there all good, a Marvin Ultimate kills it in the looks department and the other are what they are.

We have all new Northstar Windows, and they look like good quality. We love them.

Highly doubt the cranks are plastic, but I have been wrong once before but hat was six years ago.

Todd - yes, I misspoke. The handles themselves are metal, but the crank housing is completely plastic. Flimsy, squeaky, and all-around cheap.

I would imagine the housing is plastic on the Northstar window as well unless it was upgraded. The 400 has many options as well for its operating hardware.

I've had Andersen 400 casements and both the housing and crank handle are metal. Some models will have a plastic shroud over the housing, but the housing itself is still metal. Furthermore, for the most part, window manufacturer source their hardware from one of 2 or 3 providers (truth and roto to name a couple), so many are the same or similar. Casements will sag over time, this is why newer models have built in adjusters, so its not fair to compare some old units to brand new ones.

As far as Northstar in general, while I'm glad to hear that the OP is happy with them, it would not be accurate to suggest that "they are great for cold climates" because they are made in Canada. On the contrary, they use 366 glass which is more effective in warmer regions due to its lower solar gain properties, and their air infiltration rating of .12 on the 1000 series double hung is not good either. There are some features that I do like, particularly the black interior laminate which is pretty popular these days, but this window is not a top performer in any climate. As alluded to earlier in the thread, that is not unexpected given that this is new construction, builders generally don't choose to offer choices in that realm for cost reasons.

@HomeSealed — what other vinyl products would you recommend for the black exterior / black interior look?

There is only one black vinyl extrusion that I know of and its in a mostly crap window.

If you want black inside and out, look at the FG family of products like Marvin Essentials.

Sunrise shows a black on black option. a laminate interior and painted exterior. by lthe looks of it.

We’re looking at both Andersen 100s and Marvin Essentials. At this stage it looks like Marvins are just too expensive.

We have all North Star windows as well. Love them.

Northstar does not use the 366 glass package as standard, it appears to be more like Cardinal 180. Even though some may critcriticize there 0.12 air infiltration rating it probaly performs better then the Marvin in that regard.

Windows on Washington, not sure what you mean when you say "There is only one black vinyl extrusion that I know of and its in a mostly crap window"?? Lots of options from lots of window manufacturers for a black vinyl interior/exterior....

There are not many vinyl windows that have a black interior and exterior option. Almost all have a black ”painted“ exterior option. I can only come up with one vinyl company that I know that uses a black extrusion. A black extrusion is not painted or wrapped but the same material and color all the way through. Lang exteriors has this option and if you like you could get it with a spiral balance.

This thread has been very informative - however I am still curious about overall performance of North Star compared to say Pella. Is there a site that illustrates a comparsion of northstar to others ? I realize they are different price points - Im trying to determine if the higher end product truly offers better quality or is it just a ”branding” of high grade glass, vinyl etc. and perhaps North Star manufactures a comparable product ?

Pella vinyl finish is not painted to my knowledge, it even says the color is throughout making scratches virtually impossible to see, LePage, Lang, and Centra are also solid color, or extrusions.

"There are also different versions of black windows that can further complicate manufacturing.
Some simply have a black veneer that’s added on afterward, while others have a black dye added to the original material before being formed into windows. A less desirable option includes layering a black coating on the outside of a manufactured white window."

That was a quote from a quick Google search. I am only pointing this out because we have installed black windows on 3 homes now and every product we looked at was not painted.

Yes I’ve seen that noted in searches. perhaps veneer is still durable though? I haven’t seen compliants about it. What about the mechanism of a casement & patio doors for both brands?

It’s a older older post but just to get my opinion out there as a authorized dealer and installer for multiple companies. It all comes down to who stands behind their products. North star, alside andreson and pella have been around for long time they gotta be doing something right… andreson and pella are over priced compared to Alside and North Star. As far as energy efficiency all these windows will have about .19 u factor at the most which in reality can only get to r5 factor and your outside walls in northern climates have to be r19 value now days. So just to rate them my personal opinion bang for buck

North Star
Alside
Andreson
Pella

Building a new house in Ontario using Northstar. Wondering to go double glazed low E and argon or tripled glaze, argon , double coats low E?

Triple pane… Its a no brainer.

Willam thank you.

np

I would go with triple pane in Ontario everytime

Oberon thank you

YW

kellymou77, did you end up going with the Northstar windows? We are also building soon in West Michigan and my builder is suggesting Northstar as well.

Toddinmn we were just quoted for Northstar windows with the 366 glass. Is the 180 better? Should we not go with the 366? Anderson is twice the price and our other option was Wallside.

We are considering North Star right now. One thing that I don't like is their warranty says they will not pay for any labor cost to remove, repair, or replace their window. Here is what is in the warranty.

"Warranty Exceptions
North Star Will Not Assume Liability For:
1. Labour costs of any kind, for any reason, including removal,
replacement and/or reinstallation of any product which
may require service"

Not often that warranties cover labor on the manufacturing side of things. I think there are other and maybe more pressing reasons to want a different product here.

Hey- wondering the rough price difference per window on Marvin and Northstar?