"the number of people featured in brochures who joined in their late sixties/early seventies."

That's advertising.. Of course, they don't show the other people. Probably the same actors used for Viagra ads.

My father was in a CCRC in the Phoenix area. He had a one-bedroom place and he enjoyed the folks he lived with. He like the opportunity to visit with others in the dining room every evening.

He should have been in the assisted living portion, but he was stubborn about that. I hope that I don't get that way!

After he died, it took only a couple of months for the facility to refund his money. That did not happen until they claimed their fee for 'fixing' his apartment; and it had to wait until it was re-occupied.

It was not nearly as expensive as some of the numbers that Sue quoted. However, that was in a highly competitive market and it was nine years ago.

Does anyone know how Long Term Insurance works with a CCRC? For example: I decide at age 75 and still healthy to enter a CCRC. Then I need increasing levels of care as I age. I meet the LTC requirements for that increasing care. Does LTC then pay for the CCRC care?

My LTC plan covers: nursing home, assisted living, home care. It does not mention CCRC. Is a CCRC one of these or a separate entity?

There's a CCRC that is gorgeous in my area and a place I wouldn't mind ending up. I guess it may be best to take a tour and ask my question.

There are so many variables that it is difficult to express an opinion that might cover most situations. You really need a good attorney to read through all the various policies regarding these institutions.

My parents thought they were making the right decision when they decided to enter a CCRC near their home. They had already discussed this with my brother who lived near them and he seemed to think it was a good option. However when they showed the contract to DH he was stunned to read some of the clauses and advised them against this particular community.

The management reserved the right to determine if a resident needed independent living, assisted care or nursing home. My mother was in a wheelchair and did need minor assistance for bathing. My father was in great shape. The nursing supervisor could decide at any time that my Mom needed to be in assisted or nursing home. Then my father would be paying for both units which he could not afford.

If my father decided to move in with us the nursing home would continue to charge him full rent until his unit was leased again. And there was little incentive on the part of the nursing home to hurry. Again he would be paying for 2 units.

It's a difficult decision that requires extensive research - and my parents were not savvy enough to handle that.

The promotional materials say that the monthly fees are the same, regardless of the level of care. The monthly fees are subject to annual increases. 'Ancillary' fees will be added as one moves from independent, to assisted, to skilled nursing -- but no numbers or percentages are given. There may be no 'one size fits all' way to do that.

Management must have the right to set standards about who qualifies for which care situation. A friend's mother fought being moved when she needed more care because she refused to 'go live with the loonies'. The family struck a bargain. They paid for outside help to come in to the lady's apartment. This cost considerably more than the little extra she'd have paid above her set monthly fee had she agreed to move. It negated the supposed financial benefit to having 'bought in'.

My DM bought into an almost brand new CCRC, but lived only a few months in her apartment. When she required skilled nursing care I discovered that the 'care unit' was dangerously understaffed -- and the director of nursing was a felon with no credentials. (Look beyond the pretty carpets, people.)

I liked your first plan better....to hire people/assistance as needed. You have more control and less expense.

I agree, Nicole. I don't see us living 'communally', for one thing. I'm pretty anti-condo living, and this is much, much more! If we had trouble finding live-out care, I suspect these homes have the same difficulty. At least we could *fire* people who didn't work out.

The LTC insurance thread motivated me to 'look around' a bit. The CCRC thing baffles me -- makes me think I am missing something on the financial end.

Since I'm struggling with continuing my LTC premiums, this thread inspired me to schedule a tour at the CCRC where I'd like to end up, if it comes to that. Nothing like planning ahead! It is a beautiful, much sought after new facility 1/2 a mile from me, in a very desirable area. I believe the waiting list is miles long. Anyway, my tour is tomorrow and I plan to ask the LTC question--that is, how does LTC work here, if at all? My LTC literature--the National Association of Insurance Commissioners published a handy Shopper's Guide to Long Term Care Insurance that you can find online--states that 'many CCRCs require LTC.' I'll find out!

Yes, I'd far rather stay in my home and get care there, but I think it is also wise to get on the waiting list for a CCRC to cover all the bases.

Emory - please report back after your visit. Curious minds want to know.

My mother is currently in a continuing care community, currently at the independent level with two bedrooms and inside and outside access with a small fenced garden. We just moved her from her large home in a small farming community last November and it has really surprised all of us (including her) how well she has adjusted. Part of the problem was finding good caregivers in such a small, rural location. She is now in an Ideal location closer to me and remaining friends and family members her age and very nice, but not posh community (although her apartment with her own furniture is very, very nice). This is a rent situation, not a buy-in at 3,000 per month including meals, housekeeping, laundry and some transportation. Very reasonable and we've been pleased with the staff. It has Assisted living in the same premises, but higher priced and apartments do not have a full kitchen, but pets also allowed (her cats are very important to her), but more expensive. Now when she moves to Colorado with us next year she will move to a very posh CCRC, also a rent situation, but 3 times as much and more as levels of care go up. This facility is lovely and has independent living, bridge living (some assistance), memory care, full assisted living, and a nursing home. DD's family doctor, who we adore, is on the board. She is fortunate because she can afford it, but she may have to invade her investments after a few years (but adequate for another 20+ years even if care levels increase.). She is 86 and blind, mild copd, but pretty capable of taking care of her daily needs.

mojomom, it sounds like a great plan. The new Colorado facility will be starting at $9,000/month? Wow.

A quick look at our budget tells me that our current housing and food expenses are half the (annually adjustable) monthly fees for 2BR cottages at the two CCRC's I looked at online -- where we would sell our home to buy in.

I'm looking at RE taxes (no mortgage), Utilities, Landscaping, Insurance, Maintenance. They provide cleaning service, but we're still able to do most of our own chores. Group transportation is provided, but we would keep a car initially.

I presume we'd still be spending the same for Medicare B and D, Medigap, OOP prescriptions, and dental.

I cannot know what care we will need, later, but for now...no buy-in for us.

mojomom -- I'm glad your DM has adjusted -- and will still be close to you in Colorado. My MIL actually improved after leaving her apartment (and the isolation). Do you have a source for RENTAL care facilities?

I did take the tour this morning of the CCRC and am reporting back. Nice place! There are 1,000 people on the waiting list for a facility that holds about 300 people, with an approximately 10 year waiting list for those seeking independent housing. Some of the significantly older people on the tour gasped when they heard how long the wait was. Moral of the story--get on the waiting list early! My intention is to get on it at age 65.

As to LTC, it is not required at this CCRC if you enter their nursing or assisted living areas, but recommended. If you meet the criteria for receiving LTC payouts, they would work at this facility exactly how they'd work at any other licensed nursing home or assisted living--that is, be used to pay for the nursing or other skilled help you need.

Emory -- Wouldn't your monthly fee pay for your care? I thought that was the primary selling point: You pay the same monthly fee regardless of the care you need, from none to skilled nursing care.

Are they saying they would reduce your out-of-pocket by the amount of the LTC payout -- or does the insurance company reimburse you for what you pay the CCRC? Is this a buy-in facility or do you rent for a set length or time?

Be aware that CCRCs are businesses, and sometimes businesses run into trouble. University Village, Tampa, was once thought to be one of the best facilities in the area, then money troubles happened.

University Village money woes.

chiuse, my understanding is this: I become disabled by some illness, can no longer feed or "toilet" myself, and move to the nursing wing of this CCRC. The fee is $8000/month (say), all inclusive of housing, meals, doctors, nursing services, therapy, etc. My LTC policy pays the CCRC directly up to my limit of (say) $6000/month. I am then responsible to pay out of pocket for the remaining $2000/month.

The monthly fee in this facility is lowest in independent living but rises in the nursing home/assisted living sides. It is definitely not just one price. I'd like to hear more about such facilities where it is all one price whether you need no help or a ton of help. That sounds ideal.

This CCRC is rental only. There is no "buy in" or entrance fee. Your rent starts when you sign a lease and you pay monthly, just like an apartment. The independent living apartments I saw range from 750 sq ft one bedrooms for about $2000/month to two bedroom plus den plus balcony for about $3500/month. There are three dining rooms, craft rooms, movie theatre, fitness and pools, etc--an entire village in a lovely setting. It is run by the Sisters of St. Joseph in conjunction with Presbyterian Homes--two large, well established and respected organizations.