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nosoccermom

Antique walnut table?

nosoccermom
7 years ago

What do you think? How hard is it to restore? Is it veneer? Reasonable price?

CL Table

TIA

Comments (38)

  • PRO
    Anglophilia
    7 years ago

    It most likely is solid walnut, but will cost a fortune to properly restore. This is not a DIY project - it will look horrible. It appears to be a very narrow table to have so many leaves. Are they included in the price?

    nosoccermom thanked Anglophilia
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Yes, leaves are included. Sounds like I'll pass.

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  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    I owned a table pretty much exactly like that. Bought it for $12 and stripped it and sanded it myself. It only has 5 leaves so not exactly like that. Mine was missing the 5th leg and looks like this one is too....I had one made.
    I used that table for about 15 years as my dining room table....it sat a bunch! When I inherited my mother's table, I gave the walnut drop leaf to my newly married daughter, as with 1 leaf up it fit very nicely into their tiny apartment kitchen, and when they moved to a real house it fit their dining room ande ventually the kitchen of a larger house and it's still in use today 45 years after I found it in an out of the way antiques shoppe in Iowa piled with stuff.
    It's a great table, and would not be hard at all to refinish....It's solid wood....they always were....there is no paint. It might only take a going over. with mineral spirits to clean it and a good rubbing with Restor-a-finish.
    It's 42 inches wide....those tables always were ( there were lots of oak ones too) plenty wide enough, and a 60 inch cloth fits well on a 42 inch table.
    If you are looking for a "country" table....go for it...you won't find another very soon that has all the leaves....and 7 of them!!!

    nosoccermom thanked lindac92
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Do you think it's veneer? Or can I just strip it? I did this with another table (Jacobean) and made a mess; it was different types of wood, veneer that lifted...

    And what would be a fair price? For comparison, see this:


    https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/atq/6070017698.html

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    No veneer!! Not on that table if it's all original as they say....you can strip it but may not be necessary....just clean up and refurbish....unless you want it to look like a new table....but then you wouldn't be buying antique. Frankly, if the leaves are in good condition and the pins there.....$600 is really about right....but offer $400...or $500....but as they say where will you find another? Seriously? It's a great table!! With the leaves down it's probably 42 by 32 and will fit against a wall....flip up one leaf for solo dining or home work...or put it in your kitchen and add leaves as needed.
    Check it over....be sure the legs are not rotted at the bottom, and that the mechanism for opening it for leaves works and that the 5th leg is there. all this can be fixed but you will want to pay less if it has these problems. also check to see how the leaves are supported. It appears to be old enough that they are supported by a board that turns rather than a metal support. And when you are testing it, know that that turn around support works better one way than the other. So If oit doesn't work, push the other end of the turn around piece....also look for wear at the points where the hinges attach....sometimes the wood is breaking there.

    I don't know how far it is from you....but that picture is pretty fuzzy....other things to look for are things like leaves being replaced with a piece of veneered wood....I am just a little worried about how light the edge of the leaf in view is and the fact that you can't see the other leaf. Ask for better pictures, close up of the table top, view of the whole table....the leaves>
    But if it's close....go see for yourself!

    nosoccermom thanked lindac92
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    It's about 30-40 minutes drive. Thanks so much for all the advice.

  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    7 years ago

    I restored one of these that had five leaves (10 foot) and it had a nice molded edge, and was solid walnut. My worry in your case is that the black-painted leaf edges, and the square (not molded) edge profile could mean veneer. It would be very easy to tell in person.

    Make sure i still has the 5th (center-poition) leg, or you wouldn't be able to extend it. (it would sag)

    nosoccermom thanked Sombreuil
  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    But that center leg can be replaced! These tables were never veneer...but I have seen old tables that have had a drop leaf replaced with something else...that is veneer.
    Check the hinges.....if they look original and like they have not been messed with you are good.
    My oval drop leaf kitchen table that I gave to my daughter had molded (routed) edges as did the one I bought for my son and his wife. But the one in my kitchen now has squared off edged as does another one I have...so maybe?
    When are you going to see it?? Can I somehow give you my phone number and you could text me pictures? without publishing my number to the world?
    I am a sucker for walnut drop leaf tables...:-)

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  • colleenoz
    7 years ago

    You can see the fifth leg in picture 1 and more clearly in picture 2.

    nosoccermom thanked colleenoz
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Sounds like I may be headed to Virginia :) But the question is can I restore this myself?

    The edges look way lighter, so does that mean that there's a dark stain on the table, and if yes, if I start removing the stain, am I going to end up with a blotchy table? Or do I just clean with mineral spirits?

    Any way I can end up with something along these lines:

  • sam_md
    7 years ago

    The CL table is lacking its casters, is the one leg damaged at the base? When closed do the boards meet or is there a gap? How well has it been taken care of, looks kinda rough. Does OP know how to refinish? Don't assume sanding is necessary BTW walnut can refinish beautifully, OP needs to see the table in person to evaluate.

    nosoccermom thanked sam_md
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I was told all legs are sturdy, so I'm assuming that there's no damage; however, the top isn't flat when all leaves are in. Doesn't look like it's been well taken care of.

    As far as refinishing, I've done some, including stripping and sanding, ending up with a table that had two different woods (frame around table was solid oak while top was veneer) and subsequently restaining it. It now looks ok but you can still see that there are two different woods.

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Walnut will grow lighter when exposed to sun for some years....but I am concerned looking at the pictures of the leaves ( originally I didn't see that there was more than 1 picture) the worn edges of the leaves look very light....it may be oak...or perhaps cherry, but coming from the midwest, more likely oak or walnut, perhaps poplar?
    Without the casters you will find that the apron hits your knees when you sit at the table....but casters are easily available.
    I an sure the boards meet when closed....you can see the holes and pins are in place.


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  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    This is a picture of the pores in the grain of a piece of plain sawn (not quartersawn) antique Black Walnut.

    http://ohiotimberworks.com/img/black_walnut_2.jpg

    What you're looking at and looking for is those little dots and dashes, the pores. If you don't see them, the wood isn't Walnut. If it happens to be quartersawn the dots and dashes will be even more orderly (and actually easier to see).

    The table top seems to have at least a couple of spots where the finish is worn off; that's where you want to look.

    I find, in that first photo, on the edge of the dropleaf, the straight line delineating the dark from the light area to be indicative of veneer, but I'd need to see it, and feel it, in order to be certain.

    If it's not Black Walnut, for that price you should walk away.
    I'd have to walk away anyway because I'd be buying it for resale, and I
    happen to agree with Anglophilia that it would cost a fortune to properly restore, but that's your call.

    The "danger" is that it's Poplar, which can be stained to look very much like Black Walnut, but has little if any grain. Even if it was just that one dropleaf, perhaps replaced using Poplar instead of Black Walnut, once again that would be reason enough for me to walk away.

    Don't buy it without examining it carefully, and good luck.

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  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    7 years ago

    the chevy chase table looks like chestnut.

    Casey

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  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    And what about those blurry pictures told you that?

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  • PRO
    Sombreuil
    7 years ago

    this pic.


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  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    Agreed. The color and the grain both say Chestnut. Photos, especially when seen on a computer screen, can be misleading, but Chestnut is what I'd expect to find if visited.

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  • Sherry8aNorthAL
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I have great success restoring my grandparents antique furniture with Formby's. I did not have to sand. Be sure to wear chemical gloves and do outside. I didn't the first time (young and stupid). I learned fast. If the leaves are not warped, I would buy ASAP. I have been hunting for a dining table that goes from square or round to very long for ages. It is just too far for me to drive to see if it is in good condition or I would go myself to look.

    nosoccermom thanked Sherry8aNorthAL
  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    That table that you say is chestnut is not the one the OP is wanting to buy.
    And yeah...that table could be chestnut but much more likely it's oak.

    nosoccermom thanked lindac92
  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    You are correct, nosoccermom posted it "for comparison." If the table she originally asked about does turn out to be Black Walnut it will be a much more desirable table.

    As far as that open grain on the dropleaf being an indicator of Oak, no, but that's the fault of the antiques trade which for at least all of my life (in the trade, that is) has never distinguished between Chestnut and Oak. They have always simply called it "Oak." They've been wrong, but nobody cared, and (truth be told) still don't.

    nosoccermom thanked cgard2
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    So, if I bought it, would I want to remove the dark stain? If yes, I might end up with a poplar table, i.e. no grain (IS THAT BAD?), or a table part poplar, part walnut with grain that doesn't match (BAD).

    My main concern is that it might be veneered, but I should be able to see that on the edges, or not?

    If poplar, would it look like this? I'd be fine with it :)

  • cgard2
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Good, bad, better, best... That's a matter of opinion, your opinion. Are you pleased with it? Does it fit in with what you already have,? Does it serve the purpose (if there is one) that you need/want? Only what you think matters.

    When I said a walnut table was more desirable I was talking about dollar value (or expectation of value) in the market, not good, bad, better, best. If you were to buy a piece of Louis XV there's little doubt that it would cost you and be worth a small bundle, but would you want it if it didn't fit with what you already have?

    Moving along to the question of stain. Stain used to be just that, stain. It was a dye that soaked into the wood, and the ONLY way to remove it was with sandpaper, removing all the wood that the dye had seeped into. And, as has been noted, that's one of the quickest ways to ruin an antique. Newer "stain" is merely a transparent pigment suspended in a carrier, alcohol, oil, or water, and that kind of "stain" can be removed (like paint) with the appropriate chemical remover, a task that is ugly, unpleasant, and unsafe, but possible.

    So, there you go, two answers that actually told you almost nothing, except maybe that you should follow your own vision.

    The third question, about veneer, is a bit easier. Yes, you can look on the edges, but as the years went by and machines got better and better, veneers got thinner and thinner. A couple hundred years ago veneers might have been almost 1/8 inch thick, easy to spot along the edge; today they can be as little as 2/100 inch thick; in other words, you won't be able to spot them. So you should always look at the faces, top and bottom. If there is any figure, any grain at all, it will be on both sides. It might not be "exactly" the same, but it will be very close, so if you see figure on one side, and no figure on the other, you can be fairly certain that there is a veneer and that it will be on the face that shows, at least I've not seen one on the side that doesn't show.

    And one last note... This is what Poplar looks like

    It's not that Poplar has no grain, it's simply that it isn't a patterned grain. (The third board from the left does not show grain, those are saw marks that didn't get planed away.) The saving grace about Poplar is that it takes stain very, very well.

    I still dye stain when necessary, using powder dyes dissolved in a carrier appropriate to the intended finish. I try to avoid pigmented stain, but that, once again, is merely a matter of preference and choice. We all have to risk making a decision.

    nosoccermom thanked cgard2
  • lindac92
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I know, I have heard, that people find tables of that sort made of poplar....but I have been studying looking at, discussing, shopping for and buying antiques for about 55 years, and I have never seen one of those drop leaf, 5 legs, many leaves tables that was anything but oak or walnut.
    And you can always stain poplar what ever color you want and if you really must....create grain with a feather.
    And chances are very slim that anything but the legs might be poplar....and if they are just hit them with some walnut stain

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  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I couldn't care less what wood it is --- as long as it's not veneer or I end up with a blotchy table. Rustic is fine, though. Maybe I'll drive out to VA after all....

  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Get in your car and go....the fact that you say the leaves are not flat speaks to solid wood....veneered wood NEVER warps....and the warp in a solid wood leaf is easy to remove and flatten out.
    Hoping to hear you are back with that table and have only spent $500!

    nosoccermom thanked lindac92
  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    What is it, 25 or 30 miles? Yes, get in the car and go. Don't pack a lunch, there are plenty of places to eat out that way.

    Don't make an offer via email. Instead tell them you'd please like to see it first.

    Don't tell the owners all the faults you find or the TLC it so desperately might need. They don't want to hear that; they already know.

    ALWAYS be pleasant, then, after you've looked it over carefully make a first offer (one that you're willing to raise if you have to) and after the dollar amount remember to add the important word, "cash".

    Cash talks, so carry it despite the risk. Nobody wants to hear "Will you take a check?", "Where's the nearest ATM?", or "I'll be back tomorrow".

    Don't let them push you into paying more than you really want to because you already know the dirty little secret of the antiques trade: There will always be more.

    So get in the car.


    nosoccermom thanked cgard2
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    OK, so what's the verdict? Check this one out or get leaves made for the other table?

  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    No, YOU DECIDE the verdict.

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  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Get the leaves made for the table you have....

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  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    And the one near you could be better than that with a little elbow grease....but the cherry one is nicer!

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  • cgard2
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Gotta love eBay descriptions...

    "Ring mark on it that adds to its beauty." Yeah, riiiiiight.
    "One leaf has a hole in it." But I'm not gonna tell you where it is or how big it is. Stick a dandelion in it and no one will know it wasn't intentionally built that way.

    No question about it, the one near you could be better.

    This one is only about an hour away from me, but I'm not offering to look at it for you sometime this afternoon or tomorrow. I will be set up at Brimfield on May 9 and if you were to buy it I could certainly pick it up and hold it for you until then... but you shouldn't do that. You shouldn't even think about it.

    Think about trying to buy the one near you, the one we've been talking about, for that same kind of money (which I think is a whole lot more realistic than the $600 asking price for the one near you).

    Or the leaves for the Cherry table that you already own, the one that lindac92 likes. Either one makes more sense, unless, of course, you've never been to the Brimfield week and always wanted to see what it was like.

    "Madhouse and circus" rolled into one is what comes to mind, along with lots of vintage and antique stuff, too.

    nosoccermom thanked cgard2
  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Thanks for all the advice. Really appreciate it!

    I think game plan is to figure out leaves for the cherry table. Plan B, look at the walnut table here but offer less.

  • cgard2
    7 years ago

    PS... Or, a week after the chaos of Brimfield, drive out to Fishersville, VA, for the Shenandoah Antiques Expo. It's smaller, better-focused, and nicer... like Brimfield used to be more than twenty years ago.

    nosoccermom thanked cgard2
  • lindac92
    7 years ago

    Always wanted to go the brinfield thing. My parents had a cherry hall table they bought there....stripped and naked with all signs of age sanded away. My daughter has it now, she put a poly coat on the top, because she wanted to put a plant on it. The only way you might know ti's old is by the height.
    I live in Iowa now....and the nearest thing is the What Cheer Flea market....:-(


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  • nosoccermom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    I may do that! Could be fun.