Safari @ Do Your Own Pest Control

By the way, no Safari allowed for California. Lisa

I can't find the post, but I recently read on a different midge thread that someone puts organza bags over the buds. That is an interesting idea and since I am organic gardener, I may try that if traps fail. But what is the right timing for putting these bags on? Whenever there is new growth? When is it safe to remove the bag from the developing bud?

Here is an experiment with inexpensive 6 in tulle ribbon that I use for tying climbers.

totoro- that is interesting. I would like to know the timing too. You can get the bags at Michael's with a 40% for pretty cheap. Or maybe just tie a tulle "poof" around them? I was thinking of doing this with Japanese beetles but they haven't been too bad this year.

Sharon

I think organza bag would work on fruits, not on midge thought. :-)

I think they would work on thrips perhaps, but not midge as it attacks developing growth, not developed buds. They're safe past a certain stage, but I haven't even been getting buds. However, this might work if you cover new growth,

Midge is tiny, really tiny, would go through the net without any issues.

Hmm, I guess organza bags is the way to go. Thanks!

If you like orangic treatment, you can try Bioneem spray every 10 days, it should work some, but you have to spray roses when temp is under 80F. It's above 80F here, I haven't used Bioneem spray this year yet.

Thank you for that tip! I had read previously it didn't really work that well for midge, so it's good to have another perspective. It's been pretty much in the high 80s over here and I never make it out to the gardenin the morning. I had great results spraying the tips with tobacco tea, but would prefer not to have to do that. I'm already considering spraying for BS and between watering and everything else, it takes so much time.

Vaporvac- sounds promising. So to water you lift the plastic away?

Urrr. Just erased my post. Anyway. I have a wand that I stick under the plastic and also water through the whole. It's easier than I thought. If my bushes were in a straight line I'd use the fabric, but the plastic is easier to adjust around my wonky plantings. It's almost more trouble watering the pots with plastic, so I'm getting more fabric for those. Even if I eventually lift the plastic on the ones in the ground, I'll keep the fabric on the pots and keep them on the landing, veranda and stairs.

I just checked again today and absolutely no damage to the pot pets and only one burnt tip on Tess which is the single in-ground rose not entirely enclosed. Lots of new growth and buds, even on Munstead Wood who looks so sad. My roses have suffered so this year. The thought of them kept my spirits up all winter. Oh well.

vaporvac

Thanks for sharing your battle plans. When you cover your rose is it just the soil.

Way to go vaporvac! :-)

Patty, I just put the plastic over the uppermost layer whether that be dirt or mulch. I think they can pupate in the mulch. I had been spraying the tips with tobacco tea with excellent results, but since it doesn't persist it needs doing all the time and so is too time consuming. My goal is to break their life cycle by eliminating their access to soil.

Thanks vaporvac. I think I'll be trying this. And then practice real diligence when introducing new roses to my garden. Jim mentioned soaking. Does anyone know how long the rose can be soaked safely? Could something be added to the water to kill any eggs or larvae? I might even try this on my existing roses since I'm slowly replanting with the seashell moats.

Sharon

vaporvac- a few more questions. Did you cut off the all the buds or only those buds and leaves that looked infected? Did you cover all of the soil or just near the roses? I have small beds so all the soil could be covered if this is best.

Where did you get tobacco tea or did you make it?

Sharon

Hi enchanted. I only cut off the burnt tips or those that started to look wilted, but were leafed out. Usually they've never even been getting to the bud stage, but if buds do display the bent neck, then I take them off also. The maggots are still inside of the stem unless it's blackened, then they probably dropped off. I read a couple of places that they can still pupate IN THE STEMS, but I don't know how often that is. So far, mine seem to be in the soil.

I extend the plastic just beyond the roses. I'm guessing they drop straight down, unless it's breezy. I'm going out to check now and will report on todays success. Wish me luck.

I'll pm you in a bit.

Good luck :-) I'm now completely submersing all my small roses and those still in pots in water with dish detergent and a small amount or permethrin. I hope to resort to this but at least I'm not spraying and will dispose of the soak water properly. I don't have an infestation yet and don't want one. I was wondering if a layer of diatomaceous earth would help break the cycle too since this cuts soft bodies. I've read that the garden grade shouldn't be inhaled but that the food grade one is safe. I've been working pretty much non-stop in my garden this week trying to get a handle on this and replanting my roses in their seashell moats to try to deter the voles form their winter picnic!! Artificial plants are looking MIGHTY attractive!!!

I've also looked into nematodes but apparently we're now competing with the pot growers who can't have their "crops" eaten by JB's. No one has any stock available for this year. Dang!!

Sharon

Sharon I thought the nematodes for midge were a different species than the Milky Spore? The company that Cori used had a pretty informative website, but I haven't looked at it for a while.

Dingo- I read one of henry kuska's links on JB's. From my understanding the nematodes they discussed are a blend of different ones that attack different grubs. Nemaseek one of the nematode "blends" mentioned per their website appears to control more than milky spore. "Seeks Out Stationary Pests including Grubs, root zone weevils, citrus weevils, Japanese beetles, black vine weevils, ticks, queen ants/termites and more" so it appears to control more than milky spore.

Sharon

A botanical garden in Canada has been using nematode for midge control, had some good result. I think it's too late to apply now for zone 5/6, nematode only can live above temp 45F. We will have 45F weather (at night) in Sept/Oct.

summersrythm- thanks for the info. I found one called 'Guardian For Gardens' that lists rose chafers, rose midge and thrips. For rose midge it says to apply in late fall and early spring.

"Canadian Beneficial Nematodes must be applied when flower pests are found in the soil
ROSE CHAFER: Nematodes should be applied in late July after the adults are observed.
ROSE MIDGE: Nematodes should be applied in late fall and again in early spring
THRIPS: Nematodes should be applied weekly throughout the growing season."

http://www.naturalinsectcontrol.com/product.php?id=000000486

so different application times for different insects.

I think I'll give them a call to see when it's the best time to order or if this can be stored somehow until the proper application time. They ship from Canada. I hope shipping costs aren't too astronomical.

sharon

I observe that my roses that are densely underplanted with fuzzy artimisia silver mound do not have midge damage. Is it possible the smell repels them or that it acts like a plastic bag barrier that prevents eggs from reaching the ground? It certainly is easier to maintain than plastic bags and prettier. Maybe I will plant more of them under other roses to see if those roses do better next year.

After two weeks, I can report almost 100% success. Mustead Wood has over 20 buds.... I haven't seen a flower on him since shortly after the spring flush. Same thing with everything else, although Dark Desire has had at least a couple of blooms as she's so tall. I'm also finally seeing laterals. The midge were getting the small growing shoots before they even leafed out! I think it would be 100%, but a few might have already have had them in their stems and took longer to express in a cool spell we've been having.

The pot babies are a 100% success and many that I thought were just wimpy are finally growing. I think their expanding laterals were also being destroyed before any leaves showed. Now if I can just keep BS at bay. : (

From this limited experiment, it seems they don't travel far unless blown by wind. I have one with plastic next to others uncovered in a bed and it became clean while the others are still infected. Although one bed is still uncovered, it doesn't seem to spread to those that are covered. I only extend the plastic as far as the furthest stem, so there's bare soil and plants in front of them. The fact that none are appearing in the pots indicates they mainly pupate in the soil and not in the stem as well, as I'd read.t also shows doing this at first site is effective without having to do every rose.

Noone sees my beds, so I don't care and it doesn't look horrible. I'm hoping the flowers will focus my attention! Anyway, this is way easier and cheaper than spraying or many of the other alternatives and works for me. I got my bags cheap at Big Lots and can still use them afterwards. I'm keeping it in place until I do my Fall cleanup and manuring, etc. I think I'll put it back in the spring, just in case, at least until it warms and I've missed the first batch. In fact, I may just put landscape fabric under all the roses since that is invisible once the underplantings get going. My only objection is that I like to add compost, leafmold, etc. to my plants to build the soil.

That's wonderful! I wish I can apply the same but my rose beds are interplanted with bulbs and perennials so I can't use this plastic method. Hope this will keep your midge infestation under control.

That's a good news for people who have a few roses. I have over 1000, it's impossible to do that.......

vaporvac - this is so encouraging. I haven't had the chance to put plastic down yet, yesterday was raining, today I'm baby-sitting but tomorrow I'll definitely try this. Hopefully you'll eradicate this scourge and not be plagued with them again. Couldn't mulch and compost be added under the plastic?

Sharon

Thank you enchanted. Yes, I've actually composted, mulched and alfalfaed beneath the plastic. Surprisingly, when it rained it when down the center hole and still watered the plants, but landscape fabric would be the way to go maybe just putting it behind the roses permanently where it won't be seen and using temporary measures for the front and sides of the plant in the spring. I'll probably resort back to TT from time to time.

I know this may not work for those with many roses that have underplantings very near their roses, but almost everyone seems to get new potted ones every year and could bring in midge on those. Isolating them on a non-soil surface and covering the potted soil with landscape fabric seems like a really easy way to quarantine them for a short while and possibly avoid infecting one's entire yard. It's also good for permanent pot pets.

VV The blue cups with Canola oil strategic placed inconspicuous would work where there is no plastic.

enchanted, I can't send you a pm until you change your settings to allow messaging.

Sam, that's a great idea! Did you see the experiment where someone found yellow worked better for midge and then found yellow plastic windmills? I could put those next to roses that are interplanted with Spring bulbs! : )

Awesome vaporvac! Glad to hear your making such good progress! I trying heavy (Ace Hardware) weed barrier under a few roses to see what happens combined with using yellow cups close to ground...

Hi VV and Jim

I am trying the red cups and the yellow sticky traps to see how many midges I catch. The blue cups catch lots.

I noticed rose Midge damage on the very tippity top Apex of my Canadian Explorer shrub roses. That's where I should spray the Spinosad ® on the central leader Apex. They seem to find the highest spot away from the blue cups traps.

Here's a question... why would one garden get it and not another? I see Knock Outs blooming everywhere but not one bloom in my yard all summer. Would anything else cause no blooms other than rose midge?

Ellie, midge damage is very easy to recognize..... burnt growing tips or buds. Take a close look and see if you see that. The midge are probably brought in with plants.... at least that's my guess.

These have been in the garden at least eight years and bloomed faithfully until this year. Yes, I see the burnt looking tips and buds. But do these midge stay put and not infect neighboring bushes?

No, you need to get a handle on them or they'll infect all your roses eventually. They apparently fly within 150', but obviously they can be blown in on the wind. I guess it only takes one as each female can lay many maggots and as the summer progresses the growth cycle gets shorter until one has an explosion of midge. Before they lay their winter cocoons is an optimum time to try and stop the life cycle since that will decrease any that hatch next spring.

Let me tell you I have searched our town looking for Rose Midge damage but have not found any yet... SO I'm afraid our RM arrived from a online nursery...

Seen rose bushes all over town in full bloom today while ours have little blooming going on...gee discouraging for sure!

Yes. I'm sure they probably don't even care like we do. : (

Ok... you mean plants other than the roses. Baffled here... annuals planted among the roses could bring in the rose midge? What about mulch being a carrier?

I meant brought in on roses, but if you don't have any new ones it's probably from the wind from a neighbor's garden.

Anybody ever notice Rose Midge might not like dry soil???

I pulled back the mulch from under Carefree Celebration awhile back, took out the Marigolds around it, roughed up the soil under CC once a week with a garden tool, let soil dry out real good and now it has a much larger amount of blooms and buds... I'll experiment more next year...But maybe rose midge do not like dry soil??? Or by roughing up soil I exposed them to prey??? Or it could be another factor??? lol...Rose Midge will drive one to go insane!

Jim

I have been racking my mind over your roses. You have 2 of my finest roses and it makes me mad that they won't grow for you.

In all my years theres one thing I know for sure midge hates dry. A couple of years ago that is exactly what I did after bringing home some midge infested plants from Chicago. It does work to let the soil dry and will kill the midge the only trick is not to bring midge back into the garden again. We are having one of the driest year on record here. The midge are not smiling nor biting my roses. I'm certain that many have been killed off. Not all of them thou because I have had to water to keep things alive.

Its because of rose midge that they won't grow or bloom Patty...(Nothing else)

When I transplanted the one Fiji rose back in August I took soil from another location in the yard and placed in the very wide & deep large planting hole...I soaked entire rose in a bucket of water for many hours, cleaned off roots etc.(All the leaves fell off after I soaked it in water & transplanted it..) lol

But it did start growing well in that new soil so I have no doubt it will take off next year...I will do the same thing with the other Fiji rose next Spring...

TODAY:

Vapor when are you going to take off the fabric or plastic this spring? After your first undamaged blooms?

Just wondering if anyone has tried surrounding soil around roses with diatomaceous earth?

Please respond with your attempts on this or thoughts. Thanks so much!

Elle, we are having this discussion on the OR forum also. Jim is trying a new strategy and there's a couple of things I forget that have been recently mentioned, including silica. right now I'm sticking with the fabric, but may try some of the others for the surrounding lawn. I imagine the midge are rose specific, but don't know if that includes the entire family.

Ellie- I have read that diatomaceous earth doesn't work. The midge larvae a re too tiny to be affected by it.

sharon