Hi everyone, HOORAY!!!!! The STEELERS brought home one for the thumb! Thanks Semper! You are so wonderful to do this for all us ponders. It was great fun! And thank you for the win. I asked Semper to donate my winnings to The National Aviary right here in Pittsburgh, PA. It is a wonderful place that is close to my heart. Here is a pic of the Bald Eagles that reside there. Notice the one flapping only has one wing. Poor thing had been shot by some @#$&*!*....... And this is a picture of me the last time I was there..... Thanks for helping take care of the birds Semper. Hi Comet! Thanks! Well, it's been a great season. I'm already looking forward to training camp. And the next pool...........: ) ~Dawn (mamabirrd)

Another update, The black plastic sheets worked and were durable, we removed them in October, in November I sowed green manure/ winter rye which grew nicely. now I start digging, turning the soil and planting a rose with perennial border, about 4feet deep, in the front of the alottment. I went forscented roses, mainly teahybrids, a dwarf shrub and some scented polyanthas, all of them with healthy foliage, I don't intend to spray. perennials: some Calamagrostis for structure, Geranium at the front, some Phlox and Salvias, odds and ends that I collected for a while, I only hope zhe Phlox wont clash with the roses ;--) finally getting there, the border will probably need some editing, but the rough direction should be ok. happy gardening to you all, bye, Lin sheets in mid October, sulphureus Cosmos in the background (the role of plastic ran empty before the whole garden was covered...) And that's from Sunday, after digging, didn't manage to snap a pic of the newly planted bed from today ( not much to see anyway...)

Thanks - I think I should get rid of them afterall, as there's just too much of them and other weeds there. So it makes more sense to clean the whole place up. I was also uncertain at first because there is a nice high grass patch in my garden edge (from neighbour's weeds) which I pluck occasionally to feed by guinea pigs. It could be seeds from that too, so I might have to get rid of all grasses anyway. Or...with the large grass clump, if I remove seed stalks when they occur, is it relatively safe to contain? But grasses also spread via roots don't they? I guess if I want grass, I should allocate an area for that :)

Yep, DragonflyWings, you've got the idea! When I envisioned mine, the coop was outside the moat, but I like your idea better. I'd put a door in the back of the coop that leads outside the moat and garden to make it easy on you to gather the eggs, fill feeders, clean out the coop a couple times a year, etc. But I love the idea of building it a little extra-big to also use for a garden storage shed! Genious! That would let you store feed in there as well. Speaking of that, get a galvanized metal garbage can to store the feed in ~ rats can't get to it then. The entrance wasn't fenced off though in the one I've been thinking about ~ two gates, yes, but just go through one and close it (now you're inside the moat), then go through the other (now you're in the garden). I don't think many grasshoppers would make it through the "unguarded" gate area, but fencing off those two "ends" of the moat would be unnecessary work (I'm lazy when I can get away with it ;). If you don't have a huge amount of chickens, you won't need to clean up after them in the moat (under their roosts in the coop, yes, but that's concentrated in one spot and easily wheelbarrowed to the compost pile a time or two a year). Their poo will just fertilize whatever grass grows in the moat. If you have too many chickens, they will likely eat and trample down anything green in the moat and poop a good bit as well (enough that would need some sort of cleanup eventually), so I'd keep the number small at first and see how they do. I'm guessing the garden plot in your layout picture is about 25'x25'? If so, maybe start off with just three or four chickens and see how that goes. If everything stays really green and you'd like more eggs (or they're not getting all the grasshoppers before they get through to the garden), then get a couple more. Yes, mine go back in the coop at night (atleast the chickens do ~ guineas have been testing my patience lately, wanting to roost in Grandma Wall's old catalpa tree *Grrrrr*) and I close the door to keep raccoons, foxes, opossums and coyotes (and big neighbor dogs ~ *sigh*) from getting in there to them. For your situation where you have to be gone, I'd build a strong fence and cover it equally as strongly. By strong fence, I mean something twice as strong as you think you need to, something strong enough none of the aforementioned critters could get through. Remember ~ those critters have nothing to do all day except sleep, poop and figure out how to get your chickens. They can decimate a large flock in a matter of hours (small flocks in minutes), so you need to make this whole thing really strong and varmint proof. Luckily, that's not that hard to do. Strong posts two feet in the ground (t-posts won't work too well), preferably wooden or metal pipe ~ three feet in the ground at the corners, h-braces at the corners, too. Line the bottom of the chicken wire with 2x4s (along both fences) and nail the wire to it, then patrol for signs of varmints trying to dig under it. If you find any holes or beginnings of holes, lay some hog panels down along the outside of the fence and attach them very well to the 2x4s (like wire them to it with strong wire and wrap each wrap of wire only six inches apart). Hog panels are rigid wire panels like those 16' cattle panels, but with smaller holes towards the bottom ~ it's these smaller holes you'll want to put up against the bottom of your chicken fence since the big holes will still allow a small animal through. Or you can use any type of panel your local hardware/farm supply store carries, so long as the holes from the bottom up for atleast a foot or two are small enough that a cat couldn't get through ~ that'll be small enough to keep most everything else out. How long will you be gone at a stretch? If only three days or so, you could get a large feeder and auto-watering can and they'd be fine for that long. I have a dozen chickens and half a dozen guineas and work long hours for three days a week. During those days, I don't let them outside (since I won't be here to keep an eye on them) and don't have time to fill feeders or waterers (unless I have to), so two large hanging chicken feeders (each holding over a gallon of feed) and two large chicken watering cans (about three gallons apiece I think) work fine for that long. I just make sure they're completely full the day before I start my workweek. So try the smallest sizes at those links above and keep a close eye on them at first, preferably when you can be around to check every other day atleast. If they empty out too quickly (with only three hens and three days I doubt seriously that they will ~ bet they last a week), just buy another to add to the coop (that's what I did). Once it gets hot, the eggs should really be gathered every day. Unwashed fresh eggs can sit out on a kitchen counter for weeks before they go bad, so a few days in a coop may not hurt, but I'd be extra vigilant in watching for any signs of "offness". For sure float-test the eggs before you use them to make sure none are bad ~ just put them in a bowl, cover with water twice as deep as they are, and any that float to the top I'd get rid of (my dogs LOVE them and they're good for them). Another tip ~ you don't need a rooster to get eggs, so if your moat will only hold three chickens, you could have all hens. Some say a rooster makes the hens a little happier (if he's a nice one and not a meanie), but he's certainly not needed. And one more tip: Go read The FeatherSite's Poultry Pages for oodles of info on chickens. You can read about breeds there in their breed directory and see real pictures of real chickens, not just drawings like they have in the hatchery catalogs. And about how to brood new chicks, hatch your own, build coops, feeding, watering, and all sorts of other stuff. GREAT site. Sorry this post is so long, but I LOVE talking about chickens. *snicker* Get them. You'll LOVE them.