I've heard great things about the gold nugget, but am interested to hear what others have to say.

I am a Meiwa kumquat fan. I have also heard that the New Zealand lemonade is very much worth trying. I have 2 fukushu kumquats from seed. 2 grafted NZL's, 1 Meiwa grafted to Kuharske Citrange, and a seed grown sweetlee tangerine tree.

6b Steve

The only one that gets a space at my lemon farms is Pixie; good in all respects.

Thanks Brett...like I needed more temptation! ;-). I have a miho and it is quite tasty. The only one I've had from the tree so far (it is very young) was sweet, but with a bit of tang..I liked it quite a bit. I don't like all sweet. John, I've heard great things about the pixie as well. I guess initially it did not have much commercial viability because of its small size, but it has been grown more because of the great flavor.

Steve: I have a Nagami in my grove and do not use a lot of kumquats but have heard great things about Meiwa so I plan to add one. New Zealand Lemonade, Australian Finger Lime, and Smith Red Valencia are others I'm considering. Back to the mandarins...

Brett: I think Miho and Gold Nugget are two more finalists. I have a Gold Nugget tree and other than appearance the fruit is amazing, just wanted to hear some other opinions on it. DaisySL appears to have been removed from the UCR CCPP budwood offering. Not sure if this is related but I just read that it may be a chimera and some limbs can have seedy fruit...

http://plantbiology.ucr.edu/faculty/DaisySL-seedy%20fruit%20032310.pdf

I am not surprised the fruit is great tasting though as one of the parents is Fremont. I have a Fremont planted and other than heavily seeded fruit it is amazing in flavor and longevity of season. I believe UCR has an irradiated seedless Fremont in the works...something to look at down the road.

John: Yes I have heard Pixie is a great seedless cultivar, Gold Nugget is described as Pixie-like which is understandable as the fruit looks similar and also has great flavor. I like Gold Nugget because it has such a late and long season compared to other mandarins.

Laura: Thanks for the data point on Miho. I do like a nice sugar / acid balance in a mandarin.

Is anyone growing Xie Shan, Lee x Nova (aka Supernova), China S-9, or any of the UCR "Gold" varieties? These are the ones I know least about.

Last time I checked Xie Shan is no longer available through UCR. I'm not sure why they took it off their list. It was available about a year ago.

I have a Pixie but it hasn't fruited yet. There are reports that it is most flavorful only in very select climates (e.g. Ojai California), but is not nearly as good in most other climates.

-Brett

Yea the quality of the budwood from the Xie Shan source tree is currently poor so they had to remove it from the variety list. I think they are hopeful it will return for a later cut date this year.

Thanks for the info on Pixie.

That's interesting about the xie Shan. I have one from Harris, but no fruit yet.

It's just my personal preference, but none of the other mandarins are really in the same class as Satsuma and Kishu (although I haven't tried the really rare ones). 'Owari' is the standard Satsuma and in terms of flavor, all the other Satsuma varieties are either the same as, or inferior to owari (although I don't know specifically about Miho). So chances are there isn't all that much improvement to be gained by trying to seek out other obscure varieties of Satsuma (although they're all probably better than most other mandarin varieties). Something else to be aware of, Satsuma trees can take a few years for the fruit to develop optimal flavor. The first one or two years the flavor can be a little bland. I've had fruit from a tree that was over 25 years old and it was excellent. Satsuma is nearly seedless, maybe 1 out of 3, or 1 out of 4 of the fruits have 2 or 3 seeds in them. That's still less than other supposedly "seedless" mandarin varieties. But if you only plant a Satsuma and there is no other citrus anywhere nearby, it will be completely seedless. I've never seen any seeds in Kishu.

Thanks Parker. I have an Owari in my grove and it is finally starting to put on some good fruit. You are right, the first couple of years the fruit was bland but lately it has really come on. The negatives I see in the Owari are the tree shape is very drooping, late season for a Satsuma, and the fruit does not seem to hang well, quickly becoming insipid. Gold Nugget for me is easily superior, both see identical conditions, planted at the same time, same rootstock, etc. in my grove.

Thanks for the observations on Satsumas in general. I definitely intend to include a couple in my project.

Many so called 'seedless' varieties of mandarine will become more or less seedy if grown nearby other fertile citrus trees which will result in cross pollination. Commercial producers of seedless varieties go to great lengths to avoid cross pollination..

Hey Nik, yeah cross pollination can certainly be an issue with citrus, that is one of the reasons I want to try different seedless varieties around each other. However, I believe a lot of the commercial Mandarin groves are varieties like Clemenules, Algerian, Murcott, Afourier, etc. which are known to be seedless or seedy depending on cross pollination. Most of the varieties I mentioned rarely show seeds even with cross pollination. I have about 15 different citrus closely spaced in my grove and I cannot recall the last time I saw a seed in Gold Nugget or Owari Satsuma for instance.

Strangely enough my Washington Navel had some fruits with huge seeds last year...supposedly the ultimate seedless citrus...maybe should have planted those seeds, some super pollen must have been at work there...but I digress.

The way I feel about it, if the mandarin is not effortless to peel and free of seeds, if it's not easy to snack on out of hand, and if it doesn't have that very delicate flavor, well I might as well eat an orange! And that's the thing, there is somewhat of a continuum between mandarin and orange, with some mandarins being a little closer to orange in their traits. There are several different groups of mandarins, that tend towards different ancestry. Satsuma tends to be more pure mandarin, with maybe a hint of pomelo in its flavor. It's in its own group. So I can easily see why someone might prefer Gold Nugget, it has more zing and tang in its flavor, more like an orange.

I have been trying to decide between getting a golden nugget and satsuma for awhile (if they were cheaper I would get both!) I just want a sweet fruit that my kids will enjoy eating and for it to be very prolific (4 kids and they are not that into sharing haha!) This has been a great discussion and I am learning a lot! Is one faster growing or more prolific than the other?

Amanda - Gold Nuggets! When I buy GN from the grocery store, the whole family fights for it. When I buy Kishus, just the kids fight for it. But I'm the only one that eats Satsumas. I bought each kid their own Kishu tree but told them they have to share until the trees are established with good crops.

That's awesome! I just had the kids plant their own raspberry bushes with the same rules! There's always that one plant that won't produce like the others...

I guess I'll be ordering a Gold Nugget this spring...;-)

On the same token that a rangpur is a lime, lenonade is kinda like a mandarin.

Consider it. Great unique fruit.

can anyone tell me where to buy miho satsuma? I am in los angels area

David, the only place I have seen Miho Wase Satsuma is at Evergreen Nursery, but they are in the San Diego area. They source them from McEwen Nursery fwiw.

So I think I have finalized the list for my Mandarin trial grove. Of course this list has grown from my initial plans...

Xie Shan, Miho Wase, USDA 88-2 (Lee x Nova), Kishu, Yosemite Gold, Tango, Shiranui, Pixie, Gold Nugget.

Gonna be five of each variety. I am thinking 10' between trees and 12' between rows, they will all be on C-35.

So I want to have the rows of trees organized by when they ripen because I'm obsessive like that. Can anyone with experience on when these varieties ripen confirm that they should be ordered how I listed them? Earliest to latest.

Badfish, I am excited you picked your varieties and absolutely love that you want to plant them by when they are ready to harvest. I am completely obsessive like that and would need to do that too. When do you plan to plant?

Hey Sammers, the trees are currently a work in progress because I am grafting most of them. The Shiranuis are doing quite well and could probably go in the ground next spring. I just grafted four of the other varieties recently and the buds are starting to push. The rest I will figure out next spring. So as of now I am probably looking at planting in Fall 2018 or Spring 2019.

That's awesome! I am hoping to take some grafting classes this spring and am always impressed when people graft their own. Good luck with your efforts and keep us posted!

A lot of great information here! I was just thinking that I need to make a list of mandarins to get in the future but they should all ripen at slightly different times. If I'm going to buy 2+ mandarin trees, I gotta make sure I'm not ripening 50 mandarins at once. Keep us updated with your trial grove! It would be great to see how they compare in terms of growth rate and cultural care.

Based on limited experience with growing and buying the fruits...

Kishu is starting to turn color now (end of Oct). Best to wait to December to start picking.

Tango - My parents has a tree in SoCal. Usually ready from March to May. Best around April (if I can find any left on the tree). I'm not sure if it can last til May.

Gold Nugget - starts after Tango is done, around May-June

Shiruini shows up slightly before GN, but usually can be found in the store at the same time. Usually done before GN.

Pixie - Late season, after GN. Found them at Whole Foods in mid-June.

I don't have experience with the others. I know LeexNova was advertised around Janaury...so jan-mar?

Thanks junk, great data points. The Satsumas are definitely early so those are easy. I have heard Pixie can hang extremely late, just didn't know when they started. Lee x Nova is classified as an early mandarin but that one and Yosemite Gold I have trouble finding data on. So now I am thinking...

Xie Shan, Miho Wase, Kishu, Lee x Nova, Yosemite Gold, Shiranui, Gold Nugget, Pixie

I have some time before I plant so I will continue to research the seasons.

I too keep reading about different varieties of mandarins. I have a tango and miho Satsuma, but too young for fruit.

I want a GN and kishu for certain and I’ve been debating about Yosemite/Shasta gold, Pixie, California honey...but then I read about a new interesting variety and I start my list all over again.

Here are some photos of my mandarin grafts in progress. First couple are the USDA 88-2s starting to push...

Next are the Shiranuis I grafted in the spring...

Thought some people might be interested in seeing t-bud grafting in progress.

Thank you for sharing those pics badfish! love the idea of bending the stalks down and banding them (I was trying to do the same with a few of mine). Congratulations on your successes - very nice!!!!!

I've been tardy in posting my mandarin preferences - so will add such below.

Gold Nugget - ready by late March here in NorCal... can hang until mid/late June. probably best tasting. Neighbors love getting these.

Okitsu Wase Satsuma - ready by early December, better by late December here in NorCal. Perfect timing as a gift for my clients.

Tango - ready by mid to late March here in NorCal. Completely seedless now after a couple of years of seeds. Neighbors love getting these too.

Owari Satsuma - full color early December, but not sweetened up until late December. Taste almost as good as Okitsu. I think they are a bit too late to sweeten up as well as Okitsu.

Dobashi Beni Satsuma - large tasty fruit. Ready a bit earlier than Owari.

Clemenules - very productive tree with medium number of seeds in fruit. This one is planted in areas with half day sun max, so growth rate has been limited. Tasty, but not a family favorite.

Caffin - slow growing tree, reddish tinge to fruit make this tree beautiful! great fruit that is ready mid to late December here in NorthernCA.

LeexNova (88-2) - transplanted and awaiting re-growth. has not produced fruit yet.

Seedless Kishu - tasty but a pain in the a@@ dealing with all the small fruit. In my opinion, the slightly better than average taste is not worth the hassle / PIA factor. At the moment one of them is planned to be ripped out per my citrus musical chairs routine.

Shiranui - grafts are alive but yet to "push".

A lot of information about Lee x Nova can be found under its commercial name: "Super Nova".

Apparently, GN is the winner :) ... I am planning on planting one next spring. I hope I can get at Costco. I think they are done selling trees this season.

wow. George, congratz on the graft!! I am jealous here.

Beautiful work!

Great job badfish!!

Mikhail, just so you are aware, my GN has been a very strong, vertical grower in my garden, even though it is on semi-dwarf rootstock (I don't know what the rootstock is.) I planted it only having experience with Satsumas and expected the same kind of growth habit, low and mounding. I think I'm going to have to get rid of it because it is growing much too big for the location it's in, I know that sounds like first world citrus growing problems for the container people. I cut it back to about 5 feet late in the spring and it is now back to almost 9 feet and pushing out vigorous growth still in late October here in southern CA.

kentc, thanks for the info. Hmm, it is worrisome. My plan is to grow GN in a mid-sized container (17"). All my possible in-ground spots are occupied already :). My left side yard has a sunny spot but it is pretty narrow - about 7'. Is it too narrow for GN?

I don’t think 7’ is too narrow, right now mine is less than 4’ wide. It is very erect, all new growth is straight up.

Thanks for all the comments guys. Great info and feedback all around.

Regarding Gold Nugget, I have one that has been in ground for about 6 years from a 5 gallon nursery tree, trifoliate rootstock. It is only 6ft tall with 6ft width. Just another data point. Mine is from Durling nursery.

Where did you get yours kentc?

Questions for all you Bay Area growers: Do you have any problems with freezing? What varieties do you recommend for your climate, especially for container growing?

Done! Just ordered GN (Premium size) from FW. It's going to spend this winter in a smaller container.

Is a GeoPot fabric container a good choice for winter months? I have a 7 gallon one somewhere.

Problems with freezing? Oh absolutely, but the severity varies. Last year's dips to 24-26F didn't affect most except my v.pink.eureka. Several years ago the week of dips to the low 20s and a couple nights to 18-19F damaged most except the Satsumas.

The GN regrew multiple vertical branches from the frozen/killed top that now fan out and bend over nearly to the ground. I will trim to reshape... hopefully this coming spring.

badfish, I got my GN from a large retail nursery in Fresno, I can't remember their name, my father-in-law found it up there when I couldn't find it down here.

are any of you growers involved in the rare fruit growers of no cal ?

Dear Friends, has anyone been able to get a dwarf of the Dekapon/Sumo variety? I've tasted this and, besides being large and juicy, has great flavor. Was hoping the patent had expired on this variety.

Toyoshima, depending on where you live, you might be able to order from here:

https://onegreenworld.com/product/shiranui-mandarin-citrus-tree/

Starting tree farm on Big Island, on old lava flow, in hugelcultures this spring. Thanks for the tips.