They are both very good sharpening machines. Not cheap. They will give you very sharp knives in a few seconds without requiring much skill.

I think the diamond wheels can be replaced. They do get worn out at some point. I think replacement wheels are very expensive.

dcarch

Lars, check out Lawrence Segal from Westside Sharpening. He does a great job and is located in Santa Monica. He also has a mobile service and is at the Brentwood Farmer's Market. Otherwise Ross Cutlery across from Grand Central Market in downtown does a good job too.Westside Sharpening

Try the Firestone sharpener for your non-Japanese knives. It does a hollow-ground edge. I've switched over from the Chef's to the Firestone and like it better.

Ellen, I will keep Lawrence Segal in mind, but there is also a knife sharpener at the Mar Vista Farmers' Market, and that is a bit closer to me. Does Lawrence also do swords? Not that mine need to be sharper ... just asking.

I do sort of want to have my own electric knife sharpener, and I think the price on the Chef's Choice is very reasonable. I've never heard of Firestone before and do not know where to find that.

Lars, I have had a couple of Chef's Choice electric sharpeners--the original one and the upgraded 3 stage 110--and have not been at all impressed with them. I got the 110 thinking it would be an improvement over the original one. Turns out to be not much of an improvement. Both sharpeners were highly touted and rather expensive (at the time). I wouldn't buy another one unless I had a chance to actually use it beforehand to judge its performance. Maybe the new generation is a lot better?

I'm still using the 110 occasionally--it's drudge work--slow and the knives don't ever seem to get very sharp.

Here's a link to the Firestone sharpener:

McGowan Firestone Knife Sharpener

Thanks for the info on the Firestone. I still have not made up my mind, except that with Darch's suggestion, I will never use en electric sharpener for my Japanese knives (which are each more expensive than the Firestone sharpener) and will continue to use the whetstones. I might want the Firestone to use on cheap knives, however, and it is inexpensive enough and small enough. However, a review I read said that the 1520 Chef's Choice does a better job than the Firestone, and so I will take that into consideration. Alternatively, I will just take my Chinese cleaver to a professional knife sharpener, as that is the main knife that I need to have sharpened, and it does not respond as well to the stones, since the blade is so thick.

I think I'm well equipped with stones for my expensive knives.

" ----- I'm still using the 110 occasionally--it's drudge work--slow and the knives don't ever seem to get very sharp.---"

Diamond wheels last a long time, but all abrasives get clogged up at some point. That's why you use water with sharpening stones. With sharpening machines, the motors are not water proof. You can't use water, but you can squirt some thin lubricant (WD-40) into the slots. That should make it work better.

dcarch

Lars, both Ross Cutlery and Lawrence, are professionals. I'm unsure of their techniques, but Lawrence has been around for quite a few years and was recently recommended by a local butcher shop. At Ross, I have seen professional chefs bringing in their knives for sharpening.

Gary's Knife Sharpening is the one at the Mar Vista Farmers' Market. The Brentwood market is twice as far and takes twice as long to get to as the Mar Vista market, and there is always lots of parking in Mar Vista. Is there any reason to visit the Brentwood market instead of Mar Vista? We sometimes go to the Hollywood FM, but then we have other things to do in Hollywood when we go there, and I cannot think of anything else to do in Brentwood. The Hollywood market is only two miles further than Brentwood, although it takes a bit longer.

Here'sa description of the cleaver that I have. It might be older than I thought. It is stamped "Forgecraft ® HI-CARBON"

Lars, what whetstone(s) do you use, and how do you go about using them? I have two very good knives which I fear to use too often - one is Japanese.

I have a Chef's Choice sharpener that my Dad bought YEARS ago... back in the days of catalogs coming in the mail. Would have to go look to see what model but thinking it probably wasn't "cheap" when he got it. I don't have any zillion dollar knives but they're not junk either. Have been using a steel on them with just about every use. Periodically (maybe 2-3 times a year) will pull out knife sharpener and do everything from smallest paring knife to largest chef's knife.

"The whetstones that I have are both two-sided: one is 400/1000 and the other is 2000/5000." I use them following instructions from videos on YouTube:

My most expensive knife (Shun 10" Chef) cost around $200, but the Mac vegetable cleaver was only about $80. Since both of these are very thin, I will only use whetstones to sharpen them, and they are fairly easy to sharpen on stones. The thicker knives I have are somewhat difficult, especially the Chinese cleaver, which is also one of the oldest knives that I still use.

I think perhaps the Chef's Choice electric sharpeners may be better now than the older ones, and I like that the 1520 model has the option of sharpening to 15° and 20°.

Watching a few youtube videos helps the method....knife sharpening

I like my ye olde Chef'sChoice. I just have two sets of Wustof i've had for years. I use the 'rod' nearly every time i prep, then random elec sharpen.

We have the stone in the shop and know how to use it but i rarely do.

I'm not a chef but do think being so busy that the elec Chf'sChoice does consistently hold the correct angle....all i need.

My father has consistently sharpened wrong for years and his good knifes are toast. (by hand on a stone in the garage...they are concave. So bizarre)

Lars-- I guess your preference for MarVista has only to do with distance. I am not familiar with Gary's, so I really can't comment. MarVista is further for me to travel too, but on a Sunday morning, traffic is light and Brentwood is quite pleasant. Hey, you'll hike and travel the world, what's a little walk from a parking spot? :-D

Let me give you a lesson on how to sharpen your knife:

1. Go to
   youtube and find “Sharpie Trick for sharpening Knives”. Hold your knife more or less at that angle on your sharpening stone.
2. Push
   up and pull down. Repeat if necessary.

That’s all you need to know to get your knife very sharp
again. So simple. Believe me.

I hate it, when all those experts and professionals really
try to scare people by making sharpening such a high art that requires a life
time to practice. There are so many myths being perpetrated by them.

1. You
   don’t absolutely have to hold the knife at 100% accurate angle when
   sharpening. The little variation will actually give you a desirable convex
   edge.
2. If you
   study the geometry, you will find the little dip in your sharpening stone creates
   no noticeable change in the sharpening angle. No, don’t waste your time to
   flatten your stone.
3. I don’t
   think creating burr is necessary. As a matter of fact if you raise burr,
   you have removed too much metal.
4. A dull
   knife is not more dangerous than a sharp knife.

Make your knives sharp again! Believe me! :-) :-)

dcarch

Ellen you are right - I certainly can hike and travel when and where I want for fun, but when I have choices for simply getting something practical accomplished, I take the easiest one. The reason you do not go to the Mar Vista market is the same reason I do not go to the Brentwood market. If I had something else to do in Brentwood, it would be different.

Darch, I agree that sharp knives are more dangerous than dull ones. I've only cut myself with sharp knives, and that is very easy to do, and so I have to be very careful with them. I also agree with #2. - a little dip in my whetstone will not make a difference when sharpening, and so I will not waste my time (and stone) by trying to flatten it.

Thanks on the manual sharpening advice.

I ordered the Chef's Choice 1520 today, and so I guess I will not need to be going to any knife sharpener now. This is the same sharpener that they use at Sur La Table in El Segundo to sharpen customers' knives, and so I think it will be adequate for my Chinese cleaver plus my old and cheaper knives and steak knives, etc. This is my birthday present for myself! Kevin bought me a new desk chair yesterday for my birthday, and I am very happy with that. We will also go out to dinner on my birthday (Thursday), but I've not yet decided where - possibly Sakura Japanese Restaurant in Mar Vista. Kevin has taken this week off from work, as well as the following week, as we will be going to Austin to visit relatives next week. I dread this trip, but we haven't been to Texas for over four years now. At least we will get good Cajun food there, and our sister has said that she will take us on a wine & olive tour, so that we can compare Texas olive oil to what we get here. I've already had Texas wine that I like, but the tour should be nice anyway.

You will enjoy using that machine and have sharp knives in your kitchen from now on.

Do keep in mind the following simple understanding of geometry. When a curve meets a straight line, the point of contact is infinitesimally small. So if you apply the same force as you would sharpening on a 2" stone, you can be applying thousands times more force on you very thin knife's edge. So do it as light as you can so you don't mess up the hardness and temper of the steel.

dcarch

I received my 1520 knife sharpener yesterday, but I have not used it yet, as I am not yet comfortable with the instructions and do not want to damage knives. I was very disappointed when I read the instructions and they told me that it would not sharpen a thick cleaver. I wonder now if my cleaver is too thick, as it is pretty heave and fairly thick - possibly 1/8". One of the main reasons I wanted this sharpener was to use it with my cleaver. Now I may have to go back to the option of having someone at a farmers' market sharpen it. Kevin said there is someone at the Culver City market who does this, but I may take it to the Mar Vista market.

I also found akitchen knife forum.

I don't think a cleaver like yours needs to be very sharp. It is used mostly for forceful chopping. If you need it to be very sharp for slicing, it will need to be thinned.

Gary will not be able to thin blades with circular stones. Needs to be done on wide belt sander for thinning.

dcarch

I do not use it for slicing, as I have a vegetable cleaver for that - I use it for hacking bones, generally chicken bones. Actually, it does an adequate job of that as it is, and so perhaps I should leave it alone. Normally, when I barbecue a chicken, I spatchcock it, remove the back (with scissors), and I then hack off the tips of the legs and wings. I can remove the wing tips with scissors, but I need to hack the leg tips with a cleaver. These parts then go into a pot with some water and vegetables to make a stock while I am cooking the chicken, and I make a gravy for the chicken with this stock. I find the chicken legs much easier to eat after the tips have been removed, which is the main reason I do that. I really do not hack much else, but I do cook a lot of chickens.

Lars, I have an old carbon steel Chinese cleaver, too, and sharpen it on the first stage of my Chef's Choice 110. The first stage on the 110 is a rotating wheel whereas the other two stages are those vibrating stones. My cleaver is pretty thick--a lot thicker than 1/16" but considerably shy of 1/8" on the top of the cleaver. Looking closely, the metal on mine tapers (thins) toward the edge.

If your sharpener has the rotating wheel, my bet is that it will work. BTW, I use my cleaver for just about everything except for peeling potatoes & apples. I paid only $4 for the cleaver at a yard sale years ago so I don't sweat how I sharpen it or what I use it for.

I guess it really will not hurt to try sharpening it on the Chef's Choice in the 20° slots. I would be more concerned about damaging the sharpener than the knife, although the cleaver I have now sells for $35-$50 on eBay - I've had it so long that I have no idea what I paid for it or where I bought it. In fact, I may have gotten it from someone who no longer wanted it, which I think is more likely the case, as I generally remember buying something. I do not tend to forget paying for things.

You may wish to check out Steve Bottorf's website, sharpeningmadeeasy.com

He reviews various techniques and equipment. He does like the Chef's Choice system.

I have found the easiest way to keep my knives sharp is to use a paper wheel system. The advantage: I can get my knives very sharp very quickly without overheating the steel. Disadvantage: you need space in your garage or workshop for a dedicated bench grinder.

I'd like to update this thread with an offering and a question/s.

Lars -- you've had the Chef's Choice 1520 for a while now. How do you find it?

Some of the comments and reviews complained that the sides of their knives got scuffed. I wondered if this might be due to the way the user was positioning the knives in the slots.

Do you find that the final honing slot does a good (or great?) job at providing a very keen edge?

(As you may know, there aremany reviews on the Amazon site to look over.)

I have been using stones and a honing steel, but lately have been coping with a sore arm (from something else), and might welcome an automatic system.

Cleaver -- I recently got a nice, medium weight cleaver. I already have a heavy 2Lb one (flea market) and a light Japaneseveggetable cleaver. I wanted a < 14 oz one for the occasional splitting of a lobster or butternut squash.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/victorinox-40091-7-curved-cleaver-with-walnut-handle

Victorinox 7" with walnut handle. In real life, the handle looks better and is more substantial than it appears (to me) in the online photo. $27 and shipping is fast.

It came well wrapped and protected and was sharp right from the box.

This website, Webstaurantstore.com has a variety of electric knife sharpeners, and it appears they've got different models of Chef's Choice -- perhaps more durable for commercial kitchens.

I would say that after having it for a while, I am a bit disappointed - mainly because it is difficult to hold the knife in the correct position for it to get sharpened. It works fine if you hold the knife correctly, but this is not that easy. I am continuing to use my whetstones, as I feel I have more control with those, even though they require much more effort and time. For a quick sharpening, I will use the Chef's Choice.

I have that same cleaver and like it a lot, although I don't use it all that often - mainly for when I am chopping bones or spatchcocking a chicken.

Thanks, Lars. The description makes it sound easy to position the knife, but I had a CC sharpener 25? years ago and found that there was wiggle room and it wasn't always easy to just drop the knife into the slot.

I notice that in the webstaurantstore site, there is a sharpener (~$198) by another company (for commercial use) and the magnet can be removed for cleaning and getting rid of the filings or swarf. The description for the sharpeners fails to mention the bevel angle.

Ever heard of Mercer sharpeners? It is the same essential design as the CC and would pose the same positioning issue.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mercer-culinary-m10000-triple-diamond-3-stage-professional-electric-knife-sharpener/470M10000.html

Lars, did you find that the 2nd slot then the stropping slot got your knives sharp? I like a very sharp knife.

I have some water stones (as well as oil stones). IIRC, the finest water stone is maybe 4,000, maybe 5,000. But then I have to use a hone and it still doesn't keenly chop/slice (parsley, onion). I'm wondering if I should get an 8000 stone, or mess with angle guides. I often do use the Black sharpie technique (dcarch above).

When I bought my 8" Victorinox chef's knife, it was super sharp right out of the packaging. I could nearly give myself a cut (not my objective) just by looking at it. I want most of my knives sharp like THAT!

A local guy has a pricy Edge Pro system. That takes time and has a learning curve. $$$. He charges about $1/inch.

Either I am not getting the angle right or sharpening long enough, or or or. I don't think I can ever detect a blasted 'burr.' I slice (some fine chop) and cook a lot. I'm trying to heel a sore, problematic shoulder and arm. I've even fantasized about buying a crate of new knives....

Pone thing that did work for a long while, before it wore out, was a thin round, no-name "sharpening" rod coated with very fine diamond powder. $4.50!

I recently bought a diamond rod, but it's not as fine a grit, doesn't get the edge all that keen with just a couple light strokes.

I have a fine Arkansas stone (white-gray), albeit an oil stone (inherited). Maybe I should use that after the 5,000 water stone.

I've watched many YouTube videos. I move the knife edge away, not into the stone (I don't lead with the knife edge). And, I think I understand that very keenly sharpened edges don't last well, particularly on the sort of so-so steel that's in most of my knives -- like that in the Victotinox.

I'll look at this video again:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=te1KIpGyz-4#fauxfullscreen

ed-- typos

petalique, not long ago I bought the Chef's Choice on Lars' recommendation - I used to use whetstones, but never really got the hang of it at all, and grew frustrated - after trying angle guides and other 'tricks'... when I wore off a couple finger tips I gave up... but that's me. We used to drive quite far to get mine sharpened professionally. In my limited experience, I'd say the Chef's Choice will not sharpen as well as whetstones or Professional, depending on the 'professional'. But I find it sharpens it quite enough for me, and yes, I love sharp knives.

I used a particular youtube video (which for the life of me I can't find right now) and followed those instructions. No scratches on the sides. Pulling it through the 1st, then 2nd, then finally the 3rd, and then the 3rd slots twice, fast is what does it for me. Each slot pull # depending on the sharpness when starting. Now that I sharpen regularly I use slot 2 and 3 only. If starting to dull, I go back to the 1st slots.

Have used on my good knives, cleaver, and even successfully on my bird's beak. Also played with sharpening some cheap knives I use for 'bad knife work' and was pretty amazed.

Thanks for your informative feedback, 2manydiversions. I may give the stones one more chance to show me how to sharpen, then cave for an overpriced gadget. Too often I'm short on time or working body parts. I'd rather cook and dine then sharpen.

So the video you watched was on getting the right knife position witch the Chef's Choice?

Here's a video for using the Chef's Choice, but I'm not sure how helpful it is:

Petalique, yes and I found it! But I'm not at my pc. I will be tomorrow morning and will post the link then. Can't figure it out on my cell, without my readers. It is a very detailed vid, with good explanations.

This is the video I found most informative, for most my knives. It shows the use of all 3 slots, he explains quite a lot, and shows him sharpening from several angles, the time it should take for the pull, etc. I started with an older, not-so-nice knife and practiced my pulls, timing, and making sure I had the angle (knife resting on one side or the other of the guide). It was very dull and after finishing I had to go back and start again. That helped, though. Gentle pressure and making sure I finished following the tips. After I finished the fast pulls on slot 3, I'd test on paper with smooth even strokes, back of knife, middle, and then the tip. If something didn't cut smoothly, back to the sharpener until I got the feel and understood it. When I had a several knives 'under my belt', I did the bird's beak knife with no hiccups.

By the way, the angle guide I bought for the stones scratched my knives, not the Chef's Choice.

Thanks for the videos, Lars and 2Many. My arm is slowly getting better, but I also need to do sanding, painting, weeding, cooking.... ;-) I decided to get one and if it helps me out, and it will, it will be worth it. I'll just economize on not spending for new shoes and groceries. Errrp