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kittiemom

Kitty Litter Box Problems

kittiemom
7 years ago

Hi All:

Life has been SO busy for me the last few months. With five kittens plus a change in my position at work, I feel like I haven't had a spare moment, so I haven't been on in a while.

Well, after trying Cat Attract Litter, unscented litter, different boxes, more boxes, Feliway, amitriptyline, Prozac, and everything else we could think of for Maverick's litter box issues, we decided to confine him to see if we could retrain. He continued to use the floor in the bathroom intermittently until I realized he'd always used smooth, hard surfaces when he didn't use the litter box. So I bought towels and we taped them to the floor. He didn't use the floor in the bathroom a single time after that! I'd read a minimum of 30 days; we kept him confined for 60. We decided Saturday to let him out because we had to find out if the retraining worked. Since then, he's pooped on the floor three times and peed once.

We are so upset; we were just sure this retraining would work. We've talked to three vets. All are perplexed. One of them is now suggesting taking him to a behavior specialist at a university vet hospital. It's expensive and will require us taking a day off of work to take him because it's a 2.5 hr. drive each way, but we are willing to do it.

If that doesn't work I really don't know what we'll do. Prayers and good thoughts appreciated.

Comments (32)

  • PKponder TX Z7B
    7 years ago

    Prayers and good thoughts that you can get this resolved.

    kittiemom thanked PKponder TX Z7B
  • socks
    7 years ago

    I can imagine how upset you are. So sorry. I hope this can be resolved.

    kittiemom thanked socks
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  • nicole___
    7 years ago

    Have you watched Jackson Galaxy's videos on cat box problems? He addresses a LOT of litter, peeing issues.

    kittiemom thanked nicole___
  • lovemrmewey
    7 years ago

    Amitriptyline, Prozac for cats? Please enlighten me if this could be true. Our cat is frightened of everything, everyone, every noise, etc. He occasionally has a clenched bladder which must be treated and I worry that his anxiety makes him very unhappy. Had no idea about these drugs for felines, but have often joked that we need to find a cat pyschiatrist.

    kittiemom thanked lovemrmewey
  • Elizabeth
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Despite thorough cleaning, there is probably an odor left behind that only the cat can smell. It triggers him using that spot again. I might wash that floor with a bleach solution and let that sit for half and hour before rinsing and drying the floor. ( depending on the type of tile you have and whether or not that solution is safe to use. )

    kittiemom thanked Elizabeth
  • kittiemom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Maverick seems to startle very easily and is terrified of things like the vacuum cleaner. All of the cats we've ever had don't really like it when the vacuum cleaner starts, but he seems truly terrified. Before we confined him, I had started putting him in another room while I vacuumed. We do feel that it's helped with that. We also think that it's helped some with the litter box issue. It used to be multiple times daily and now he sometimes even skips a day.

    Lovemrmewey, you should definitely ask your vet about something for your cat.

    We are able to use bleach on the tile, but he's also used the hardwood and so we can't use it there. I had put towels down on the hardwood. Last night he'd found a spot where they slid apart and used that. So I got fresh towels and have taped them together. He doesn't seem to like that surface, thankfully.

    I've watched the Jackson Galaxy videos. They have a lot of useful information, but we haven't been able to figure out the reason for Maverick's behavior. We're doing everything suggested.


  • Summer
    7 years ago

    Kittiemom - You have my thoughts and prayers for a solution.

    My vet suggested Prozac for a stray dog with anxiety. Drugs are necessary, but I prefer a natural approach. Rescue Remedy and pure lavender worked in my case.


    kittiemom thanked Summer
  • Annie Deighnaugh
    7 years ago

    In case you haven't tried it, I had great success with Nature's Miracle Cat Urine Destroyer. We had territorial issues with Casimir before he passed and we found that stuff worked great.


    kittiemom thanked Annie Deighnaugh
  • Bluebell66
    7 years ago

    I am so sorry you're dealing with this! It sure sounds like you've tried everything so I guess the behaviorist is next. Good luck!

    For others who wonder about prozac, we have been dealing with a cat who has peed outside the box for 8 years. He has his usual spots so it's been relatively easy to clean up, but we got sick of it and just 12 days ago started kitty on liquid prozac. The vet said it could take up to a month for it to work, however, we have not had a single incident since starting it. It has even eliminated 90% of his aggressive, bullying behavior, and he no longer howls all night. For us, it has been a miracle so far. I highly recommend trying it for elimination, aggression and anxiety issues. Our vet said amitriptyline doesn't work very well so they are moving away from prescribing it.

    kittiemom thanked Bluebell66
  • FlamingO in AR
    7 years ago

    He likes to use a slick surface? Then I would give him an empty litter box. Maybe there's something about the feel of litter on his paws that he objects to. I know you said he would use the litter box most of the time but maybe you could put an empty one next to it and see if he starts using that. Then you could just throw some litter over the urine or the feces and then scoop it out. It's liable to be messy though, I wonder if one of those double layered pans would be the answer to that. Liquids would drain through and not get all over his paws.

    kittiemom thanked FlamingO in AR
  • Suzieque
    7 years ago

    I'm not sure that this will help with inappropriate elimination, but I had great luck with it for my nervous, formerly-feral cat. Feliway or Comfort Zone (both available in pet stores and on Amazon). Plug a few into the wall throughout the house. There is zero smell to humans, but there is something that sure calmed by boy down. Not perfect by any means, but it took the edge off. He's gone now, but when I have a foster cat in I still use them and it never fails me.

    kittiemom thanked Suzieque
  • User
    7 years ago

    We had a kitty like that and ended up installing a kitty door in our garage. It is perfect !! He does his business outside now, even in the rain. But he spend most of his time inside, and when he wants to go to the garage, he lets us know. When we leave for the dy, he goes to the garage, where he has a little "house" and an auotmatic feeder and water bowl.

    kittiemom thanked User
  • schoolhouse_gw
    7 years ago

    As Roseberry mentions, I also was wondering if Maverick could have access to the outdoors when necessary? or the garage?

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  • quasifish
    7 years ago

    I was thinking along the same lines as FlamingO in AR. Can you "set him up for success" in some way that both of you can live with? I was thinking more along the lines of a plastic under bed box- something large, smooth, but easy to clean? Something that might be more attractive to him than your floor?

    When one of my kitties got old and to end stage renal failure, she didn't have the will to make much effort with the litterbox and ended up peeing over the side most of the time. I used an under bed box with her (and swheat scoop litter), and she was much more content with that since it suited her fatigued needs. I didn't try to change her habits, but rather build on them in a way we could both live with...

    kittiemom thanked quasifish
  • marilyn_c
    7 years ago

    Is he de-clawed? Some de-clawed cats won't use a litter box.

    kittiemom thanked marilyn_c
  • lily316
    7 years ago

    Of the 16 cats I've had one had this problem. I have no solutions just sympathy. My cat would pee outside the box and she got along with all the other cats. She was treated at the vets, no problem. Once in the summer for a few days, I took her and her food and water and bed to the carriage house with one gigantic clean littler box. She still peed beside it.

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  • lily316
    7 years ago

    Marilyn, I read that before about declawed cats not using litter boxes. Mine have never been but months ago I rescued a stray declawed on all four paws Maine Coon cat, and he is the most fastidious cat I ever had.

    kittiemom thanked lily316
  • veggiegardnr
    7 years ago

    I'd definitely go to the behaviorist, if you can. Is he confined into a room where there's an outside wall? If so, you could build a very secure outdoor cat enclosure for him and put a cat flap in the wall. He could go in and out as he wishes. Provide him with a place outdoors that he can go potty and that can be cleaned. If he likes smooth, hard, surfaces, provide that for him in the cat enclosure, but in a way where you can easily clean it up. Just a thought from a fellow fan of kitties.

    kittiemom thanked veggiegardnr
  • marilyn_c
    7 years ago

    Not all declawed cats refuse to use a litter box, but I had one who did. I took him to the vet, and he told me that sometimes happens. Once in awhile he would get in the box....seldom....but he never "dug" in it, like most cats do.

    kittiemom thanked marilyn_c
  • kittiemom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Maverick is declawed, as are the rest of our cats. They are all good with the litter box. Two of them are are super-fastidious and will dig for what seems like forever. We don't believe it's the declaw. He was using the box fine for a while after the declaw. He also used the box perfectly while he was confined to the bathroom. When he does use the box, he does dig. He doesn't dig a lot, but we've also had cats that weren't declawed that didn't dig much. And Maverick was never one to dig a lot, just a minimum. He is using the box some now, just inconsistently. He pooped on the floor again last night. It had been over 24 since last time. We haven't found any pee since Monday morning and are thankful for that.

    We are willing to live with the poop. It's not ideal, but easy enough to clean up. The peeing has to stop. We both work, and often when we find it it's soaked into the hardwood. I've been in a house where they had unneutered males that were peeing and wow did it stink.

    Monday morning I put down towels where he'd peed. I didn't have time to tape them down. Monday night they had slid apart (kitties playing on them) and he found the spot on the floor in between and pooped. I taped them down after cleaning and he hasn't used that spot again. Last night he pooped by the back door. Two of the litter boxes are in a closet there, so it was just outside the boxes. I'll be putting towels or rugs down there and we'll see what happens.

    We've tried the Feliway and didn't really find any difference.

    The vets feel like it's behavioral after he did so well in the bathroom and has now relapsed. We can't allow him outside. First because he's declawed. But also he's Himalayan and has always been inside, so with that plus the grooming issues, we wouldn't let him outside even if he had claws.

    We've thought about a box with no litter, but as Flamingo pointed out, it would be a mess. When Maverick pees on the floor, he tries to dig to cover it up. But with no litter, he ends up getting it all over his paws as well as his very bushy tail. Then he has to at minimum be cleaned up with wipes. At times we've had to bathe him. We may try the double-layer pan; we hadn't thought about that.

    Last night I observed what I thought was odd behavior. One of the other cats was in the hall litter box. I could see the hall out of the corner of my eye and I noted Maverick making his digging motions. I rushed over, sure that he'd just used the floor. No, he was just digging along with the other cat who was in the litter box. After she got out, I guided him over to the box, but he jumped out and went off to play, so apparently he didn't have to go at that time. We've also seen him get in the litter box with one of the others and use it. There's no shortage of litter boxes in our house. It was just as if he was in that area and didn't want to be bothered to walk to another box. The other kitty was apparently ok with that.

  • Bluebell66
    7 years ago

    One other thought comes to mind....maybe Maverick needs to be the only cat in the house. We adopted a stray, declawed Himalayan several years ago after his owner was never found. He frequently peed and sprayed outside the box. We ultimately rehomed him to someone without any other cats; this person knew about his issues and was willing to give him a chance. He does not pee in their house. Similarly, a friend had a cat that peed in her house. This kitty was friendly with other cats and always welcomed and took care of fosters, however, a multi-cat household apparently didn't work for him either. My friend rehomed her kitty to another friend, and he doesn't pee in their house because he is now an only cat. Some cats just aren't meant to live with others, even if they seem friendly with them.

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  • Cookie8
    7 years ago

    That is tough. Our new cat is doing the same. If he goes in the laundry area, he pees on whatever is on the floor. We keep the door shut and his litter box extra clean as he has will pee on blankets or pillows on the floor if it is dirty. He is high maintenance but we really like him, plus, everyone is being extra neat on the threat he is gone if they aren't (he is staying, btw, shhhh). We have three cats and a dog. Sounds like yours will just pee just anywhere though. My vet suggested this plug in device for cats that pee. Sorry, I have no opinion on the product as I haven't purchased it.

    https://www.amazon.com/Ceva-Feliway-Plug-Diffuser-Refill/dp/B000WHUOEI

    kittiemom thanked Cookie8
  • Hareball
    7 years ago

    I agree with Bluebell66. Just because he gets along with the other cats doesn't mean having other cats around isn't stressing him out. Also some cats are like humans are just that ocd about cleanliness. Maybe he doesn't like using boxes with other cats. I know you say he's used them before but with how often his behaviors change with the boxes maybe that's why. Are you able to keep them pretty clean? Again cats can be super picky about cat boxes.

    You also say you've been more busy lately job, etc. Maybe your cat is picking up on this. Animals can pick up on our feelings and behaviors. Have you maybe not been spending as much time with him? Maybe he misses you?

    Also with the empty cat box maybe you can tape a bunch of puppy pads on the floor under the empty cat box in case he does make a mess just to see what happens. We have a kitten that's had problems like this but has been getting better. Just be patient and remember to praise him if you can when he does go in the box. Good luck! :)

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  • veggiegardnr
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I think that going to the university is your best bet. These litter box aversions can be quite difficult to figure out. The longer this goes on, the more difficult it will be to change (as behavior turns into habit and habits become more and more set over time).

    It sounds like your veterinarians have done a really good job for Maverick so far. With the recommendation that you go to the university, they are telling you that they would like to refer him for care (and potentially additional diagnostic tests) that they are not able to provide. This isn't a failure on their part, it's actually an indication that you have good veterinarians who recognize the need for input from veterinary specialists.

    I know it seems like this started with a litter change, but the timing may just coincidental. If you go to the university, before getting into all things psychological, the veterinary behaviorist will probably revisit the possibility that this could be resulting from a medical problem. They may recommend additional diagnostic tests to rule out medical causes. This is a really good thing because, sometimes, medical causes can be quite tricky to diagnose and they can also be subtle.

    I suspect that, with five kitties, you have a fair amount of social stress in the household. This can also be really subtle and, as humans, we often miss things that are a really big deal to cats. Cats can experience a great deal of stress from very subtle things...it can be as subtle as the cats looking at each other wrong or for too long or where a certain cat hangs out. Just because they aren't obviously fighting doesn't mean there isn't significant stress. They may really not be getting along, in very subtle ways.

    I hope I can convince you to at least consider an outdoor cat enclosure. :-) These are secure structures, with a roof. They are often put on patios and contain litterboxes and multiple cat trees. You can hang bird feeders nearby, so the cats can watch birds (without the risk that they will catch a bird). It's not the same as letting your cats outside to roam (which is very unsafe). Properly constructed cat enclosures are safe and cats don't get dirty or anything in a nice cat enclosure. It's a form of environmental enrichment and most cats who are fortunate enough to have a cat enclosure really love it. I don't think this will solve Maverick's litter box aversion. I just think your cats (including Maverick) might really like it. Mine definitely like theirs. It was recommended to me by a veterinary behaviorist.

  • OklaMoni
    7 years ago

    I feel for you. But, I am not a pet person, mostly, not, all together because of my pet allergies. However, neighborhood cats are pooping on my front porch. How can I discourage them?


    As it is, I can NOT leave the cushions on the chairs, or they would be covered with cat hair... YIKES!

    Moni

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  • nicole___
    7 years ago

    Moni....they sell Scram. It works. You sprinkle it wherever there's a "problem" and it's fixed.

  • kittiemom
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Moni, I've never seen outdoor cats do that since cats usually bury their waste. I have heard that the Scram works well.

    As of this morning, Maverick has gone five days without peeing in the house. I think that's a record since this behavior started. He has pooped several times, but not daily. While not what we would like, we can live with that. The pee is the big issue. He would often pee at night or during the day while we were at work and by the time we found it, it had already soaked into the hardwood. To make matters worse, the last time we used Nature's Miracle to clean it, it seemed that they'd changed their formula because it smelled different. Shortly after using it, both DH and I developed severe headaches. We're hoping now that the retraining worked somewhat, since he's much better than he was.

    He is such a sweet and loving kitty, but we have sadly considered that we may need to rehome him if this continues. He's been with lots of other kitties since birth, but who knows with a cat? One of the ladies who works at the vet's office told me she was having the same issue with one of her male cats. A friend was willing to take a chance on him and he's always used the litter box in the friend's home. We hope we don't have to do this, but will consider it.

  • Cookie8
    7 years ago

    Oklamoni - could it be raccoons? LOL, kittiemom's cat, they aren't fussy where they go either. Sorry, kittiemom, I couldn't help myself.

    I hope your record (5 days) keeps on.

  • Summer
    7 years ago

    Raccoons was my first thought, too. Cats prefer the flower bed with the prized plant you just purchased.


  • nicole___
    7 years ago

    I use white vinegar on any accidents. My little boy gets the "runs" about once a year. He goes outdoors on a leash every day and I leave him at the voles hiddy hole. Who knows what plant or insect he's eating out there. He won't use an unclean cat box. Once I know he's got IT, I put out 3 litter boxes and we're good.

  • morz8 - Washington Coast
    7 years ago

    Moni, for a while I had territorial cats (not mine) spraying the planters on my covered front porch. Boundary Cat Repellent worked for me. I'd spray the outside of the planters, and in good weather the face of a couple of the steps to keep them off the porch completely.

    My neighbor had told me about the Boundary, she was using it on her Persian dining room carpet to keep her own Persian cats away from it. One of them would stand in the kitchen doorway and leap the whole width of the room to the hardwood on the other side. Wouldn't touch that carpet when she'd lightly sprayed it ;0)

    Havahart (the pet friendly people) makes a good one too, called Critter Ridder that might be more helpful if what you have is raccoon. I've used that one in flower beds. Thankful there are no wandering cats in this neighborhood, I've seen the same black with white feet cat walk through this yard about twice in 4 years. I do have an occasional raccoon, but digging up the lawn is about as messy as one has gotten.