For anyone else planting around oaks, I found this list helpful.

http://ucanr.edu/sites/scmg/files/29793.pdf

It is a list of plants for around and under oaks from the University of California Agriculture and Natural Resources / UCCE Master Gardener Program.

Also... what used to grow here (before we bulldozed it and had it totally remodeled) were:

Cypress trees

Bottlebrushes

Oleander

Viburnum

Juniper (grew into HUGE trees - creepy and disgusting)

Jasmine

Lawn

None of it was cared for though. Or irrigated regularly. But they all did grow, without care, for over 50+ years. Although, I don't want any of those back in my yard. I'm fairly certain the soil is good and mostly anything will happily grow. I'm not too worried about that.

I just want to choose the right things for my enjoyment, but also not to hurt her tree. She's one of my favorite neighbors.

My favorite nursery that is semi-local in my area is Alden Lane Nursery in Livermore. They have lots of different plants for sale in pots all around their mature oaks, which gives me hope. Especially since I only have the outer dripline of one to worry about: What do you think?

Ok I will be quiet now and listen. :)

I f it were me, I would not plant roses just there. I would stick to low-water natives to avoid risking the oaks. The root system of a tree actually extends a good distance outward beyond the drip line, and you can kill California native oaks by summer watering.

First thing: are there oak roots in the soil where you were thinking of planting?

Yeah Rosefolly... you're totally on point... but it did survive (and totally thrive) for the 50+ years when there were A LOT of non natives planted there (all the jasmine for example and the lawn) that did get summer water (not regularly recently, but it was at one point irrigated with sprinklers).

The neighbor and I joke that the roots probably extend a few counties over. I'm sure they extend to the area where she herself has a lawn that is well irrigated. She has already given me the A-OK to plant whatever I want there and not to worry about it. She's so sweet.

But I do want to be responsible, since my knowledge of gardening and her root system may be a little more than hers.

I appreciate your response tho Rosefolly. And your wanting to be responsible to her tree, like me. :)

Good question Hoovb. They're deeper for the most part than how far down I would be digging. I did some digging and checked. :)

So also... we had the whole area seriously demolitioned and bulldozed with bobcats and re-leveled. We just did a huge demo and remodel, so the soil has obviously been disturbed quite a bit in the area. We took out an overgrown mess of a yard, lawn, concrete and a pool. This video is positioned more towards the pool we had removed, but you can see the oak tree area to the far right... Not sure if this may change anyone's recommendations... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oey3kU-CBN4

I would see that as an exciting area to get to work on Cori Ann. I know what I would do with it over here as we would call that an island bed, and traditionally we put the tallest plant right in the middle, which need not be a plant actually, but statuary, or some other structure - obelisk even - and then cascade planting around and outward to the edge at lower levels, so when you walk around it, you get the same flowing image all the way, with your eyes drawn to the centre, so that needs to be something special and long lasting...

...all sorts of lovely things to put around the edges and mix in... how terribly exciting, I wish it was mine to do... so happy choosing and planting....

Marlorena you are always inspiring me! We both have this thing for flowering, cascading obelisks... I know what Freud would say about that. :)

You're right about roots going "into the next county"! A tree's root system extends far beyond the drip line. And the roots are much closer to the surface than you might think.

How nice to have a link to tell you what grows well around oaks! I'm gonna go have a look...

Hi, Cori Ann. You must be so pleased with your new back garden! I'd try to split the difference and compromise if that oak lived next door. I'd plant a few roses plus drought tolerant natives and herbs. I know you shop at Annie's Annuals. That might be a good source for ideas. They have Sidalcea (checker mallow) and other flowering natives. I'd search the drought tolerant list for attractive, bee-loved and butterfly-loved rose companion plants that please me. Then I'd interplant a few heat/low water tolerant roses and herbs and mostly water only the roses after all is established. Carol

Hi Portlandmysteryrose. Yes we are so happy with the yard! It was a labor of love. I'm so proud of how it is coming along! It is an oasis now! Your idea is pretty much what I was thinking too. If I keep the roses in pots for a while I can see how it goes and move them if need be.

Marlorena... I told my husband about your idea and we got to brainstorming and came up with some good ideas along the same lines!

Maybe an open structure of some sort... either to cover a larger outdoor eating area like this... (with mulch instead of lawn --- and I'm more a fan of metal instead of wood)

Or maybe a hammock or swing like this... (this is more the size that I was thinking. The other is just so big... but my husband likes the bigger sized one)

The landscaping would still be on that outer rounded edge of the mulch. I have quite a few oak friendly plants already that I could just propagate from what I already have... Island snapdragon, nepeta, coyote mint, breath of heaven, heuchera and thyme.

I do want to add irises too though. They're oak friendly so that should be fine.

The roses would be further away from the oak than the owner of the tree actually has her own lawn ... knowing that makes me feel a little better about trying it. It all really would be outside of the dripline. Barely. But still, outside.

I am thinking I won't put in any irrigation to that area. Just slowly add things, water by hand there and see how it goes. Although 'slowly' is a relative term.... ;)

Should I talk myself out of it? I'm already getting pretty excited about it and I can't even start for months. I should probably slow my roll.

I love that hammock structure, gazebo type. The decorative roofing makes it. I wouldn't say no to that... What a great find - no room but I want one..

Actually, it's a swing rather than a hammock, but I would use it as one...

I like the swim idea! You could scatter some pots w/roses or even grow them up the structure if the pots are big enough, then fill in with natives.

And can I just say that oak tree gate/entry at the nursery is amazing! I would love to see that in person. I love things like that!

Cori Ann, I know you think of many aspects of the oak as negative and they probably are, but those beautiful limbs overhanging and the rest of the tree really makes your yard seem full and immersed in natural beauty. It completely blocks any visual of your neighbors so it seems like you're in a personal paradise and helps set off the roses, hardscape and other plantings. I hope the limbing doesn't change this as only mature neighborhoods can even hope to have such beauty.However, this is coming from someone who would probably have liked your "creepy" juniper! : )

I love either option you showed which give some shaded seating (and more climbing roses!), but also like Malorena's idea of a small focal statuary surrounded by plants. The main danger is having this area fight with the tree instead of blending. You also have a lot of new hardscape that calls attentions to itself, but since you planned it together it blends and once the roses mature it will become more of a backdrop. Maybe having this area look more naturalistic would be nice. What a choice to have! I can't wait to see some more brain-storming here. I know this area will completely rock because the rest of your yard is awesome. I'm still going back and forth on my pergola design so I'm full of thoughts, but no actual suggestions. : )

P.S. Thanks for including the dimensions which really help put the whole yard in context. It's HUGE!

Here's a photo that might interest you. It inspired me to purchase this foundling, and it is already a huge favorite with me:

http://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.165053

We have many oaks in our yard...

Virginia

Virginia that photo of Emmie Gray under the oak is inspiring. Thank you!

Vaporvac you are totally right. I, too, see the positive aspects of such a wonderful, mature oak. I love the shade it gives and the sense of privacy it provides. I love it even more now that she's going to trim it back and thin it out. :)

Mature oaks are all around here. Both in yards and in the surrounding hills/mountains. They're wonderful.

I am just so excited about this area opening up because I was resigned to leave it as mulch... I had accepted it and designed it that way for her tree... and now I can design something there for me instead! It's like a gift!

And all at the same time Anja from Ludwigs is accepting orders of what she has left in stock from the Ludwigs AZ shop that closed.... rare roses that we usually can't find here in the states!

I have a new spot to put some rare roses! I am obviously finding it hard to contain myself.

You are right... a smaller focal point could be wonderful as well. Then focus more on a natural, flowing garden plan.

I like the idea of a swing, sitting area, hammock or something as well though because then we could relax in and enjoy the area too.

The options! There's so many! This is going to be so fun!!!!

You are all full of such great ideas! Thank you for offering your creativity and your perspectives. I really love this forum for that!

I see no huge or even large oaks being shown on this thread but anyway main problem I see with roses going in situation in original photo is they will lean away from the tree.

The fear is for the Oak, which shouldn't have Summer irrigation. See top photo.

Embothrium you don't think that oak is large? Hmmmm....Maybe the size is just not coming across in the photo. The canopy easily spans almost 50 yards from one side to the other. It spans over 3-4 yards. I definitely consider it huge. It's a big, healthy oak.

Yes you're right about roses possibly growing away from the tree. Although, one of the great things about that spot is the exposure. It's eastern exposure and also slightly southern. The sun rises and goes diagonally across the yard from the direction beyond the fountain, then goes towards the house and the other side of the oak... giving that area wonderful sun all day except for the direct afternoon. In the later afternoon and evening the sun comes back to that area shining from the other side for a few hours before it sets. So plants around the rounded perimeter of the munched area will actually get really wonderful, beneficial sunshine exposure there.

Fduk it's weird to think about isn't it? Many California natives will die if given summer water. Isn't it crazy? Makes sense though, because we really are in an area that is like a cross between a woodland and a desert.

I admit I know nothing about English Oaks!

Oak trees are protected vigilantly here in my area of California so I think most of us are conditioned to be aware of them. I don't remember it being an issue when I lived in SoCal, but I also don't remember a lot of oak trees there. Just my experieience though... I'm not sure of the actual laws there.

Here in NorCal though.... you even have to get approval to build around them, even simple things like pergolas! And it's hard to do because they are so protected. They are beautiful and majestic though. And wonderful for wildlife. There are several massive, huge oaks in my semi rural neighborhood. They're some of the biggest I have ever seen.

And Vaporvac, yes... the yard is huge. The lots here are about an acre or 1/2 acre. Some are 1/4 acre. Even so, it is almost unheard of in most parts of CA.

An acre is wonderful... but it can also be a lot of upkeep! Now that it is designed well.... it is SOOOOooooo much better. Now we made it for enjoying instead of working in... and instead of a jungle of junipers. And I don't think you would have liked those big creepy juniper "trees" that were removed from that side.... it was like a blackwidow spider haven. Not good!

I was having a celebratory drink and cheering from the street when they cut those down! Some of my neighbors probably think I'm totally nuts.

You sound like a super fun neighbor. They are so lucky to have you. We on the forum could have joined you with a glass of wine.

My neighbor across the street and I are gardening & home project soul sisters. She's like me and will be doing projects all the time... up on her roof doing stuff, digging and gardening constantly, in her garage refinishing furniture, painting. When I see her working really hard I will walk over and bring her a beer. ;)

A lot of my neighbors and I go into each other's yards to get ideas and see how things are doing. Not on our own of course. But we invite each other over. I think I'm a fun neighbor. But I'm biased. :)

Ok ... so I have time on Friday's to mess around, so I went to a local nursery (Tassajara nursery) that usually has interesting statues, benches and arbors. I found what I think are 2 really good options to add vertical height like Marlorena recommended, and also for a sitting area. These two options would offer a place for roses or something else to climb up, and a place to relax and enjoy.

I would love your thoughts on these. Positive and negative opinions are welcome! You all make me see things from different perspectives and I appreciate that!

I was thinking maybe a stone table and stone benches like these...

With a metal open gazebo type structure like this over it....

I like the idea of a heavy stone table and benches since it's going to be on mulch... so people won't try to scoot them back and forth and end up falling over in the mulch. It's kind of like an upscale picnic table.

***

Another option I thought would work instead is a wooden bench like this with a built-in arbor over it...

Then I could just put a wooden table in front of it and another regular wooden bench (no arbor) on the other side of the table.

I thought it fitting that there's an oak in the background there. It's also a big one... but my neighbor's oak is way bigger ... and healthier too.

Roses could grow up both of these structures... adding some height, verticle interest, as well as a sitting area. Marlorena thank you for the idea about adding a vertical focal point. I really like that design concept!

Then I could still landscape all around the rounded edge of the mulched area.

OK... thoughts?

Cori Ann... I rather like the stone table and bench but question whether you're trying to do too much here. I'm not keen on the idea of mixing this with the gazebo, preferring to keep it simple, but your money, taste and decision... I just don't see them going together terribly well. Either/or but not both for me... Mulch makes an informal look and I'd want to keep it that way... It will be fun to see what you choose and prove me wrong...

You could totally be right Marlorena. And I have some time to have a million new ideas from everyone and change my mind 100 different times... but ever since I have seen this photo on houzz I wanted to do something similar, so in my mind's eye that's what I'm imagining... https://www.houzz.com/photos/tuscan-farmhouse-mediterranean-patio-santa-barbara-phvw-vp~3025061

..that's very nice, and don't they have wonderful views to go with it..?... I know it'll look great whatever you decide on Cori Ann and you should just go with your own intuition and desires on this.. I'm very cautious these days, so for me I would get the table and seating, look at it for 6 months, then decide if I wanted anything else to go with it... oh to be young and carefree again....

I like that idea. That way I can live with it and see how it really goes in my yard and what it really needs.

I was thinking more about it being "too much" and thought about getting the table... but then doing an archway threshold to enter the area instead of the gazebo. So many options!

I hope my neighbor decides to have the oak done early spring. I want to get started to bad!!!

My neighbor came over this morning and said how much her oak seems to like my yard more than her yard since it's so bushy over here. I think she's going to have it trimmed soon!!! Yeeee!

So I went out exploring different options for adding height to the area today and found some really cool obelisks! These have a beautiful shape! I had to share...

But instead of spending money I went home and looked at what I already have around the house. I decided to put a few things I already have as place holders to decide how I like it. Especially before I plunk down money.

I moved an old metal table and chairs to underneath the oak. I moved some large terrarium lanterns I already had to the corners. And I put two large pots between the terrariums.

Right now I have fairy lights and fake candles in the terrariums (they were on my porch originally - love these terrariums, have had them for years).

But I can put plants, statues, gazing balls, etc instead. Twining plants can climb up them. The glass panes come out too so there's that option. The large pots can house roses or even something else to add more of a cascading effect. Roses and irises can go in between with oak friendly plants and natives filling in the space.

I actually quite like it! Once she has it trimmed and some plants grow in I can really evaluate how this works. And I didn't need to buy anything new yet!

You are all the best. Thank you for helping me start this design!

Gasp! And at night the fairy lights in the terrarium lanterns look great here!!! Better than on my porch! This is going to look so cool!

Cori Ann - your energy and ideas are amazing - can't wait to see a picture of that oak after it gets thinned.

Jackie

Woo hoo! There's going to be so much more sunlight!

Can you imagine climbing that tree and using a chainsaw or handsaw? So impressive!

I mostly decided against roses here... maybe a few in pots will be ok. The deal breaker was my dogs decided this is their bathroom spot and if I put roses there now they will just end up getting pee'd on. I'm going to watch it for a couple weeks to make sure how the sun changed... then plant my genie magnolias, azaleas, CA native mock oranges... and move some river rock over to keep those safe from the dogs (they don't like walking on river rock that much). Maybe a few roses in pots, elevated and safe (out of the pee zone).

Unless anyone on here has any other ideas that inspire me to take a differen route... I think that's the plan! :-)

I think it sounds lovely, Cori Ann. We need to think of Ingrid and the beauty of restraint.

I don't know about California and the California oak but over here the received wisdom is that you don't summer water around native oaks because this greatly encourages the Armilaria mellea fungus.

I keep thinking of something tall near the center as Marlorena suggested and a secret garden on the oak/fence side, a place canopied by the oak and screened from the rest of the garden, a change of tempo and atmosphere from the rest of the garden

Cath