She might be referring to the size, such as the size of a pea.

Molasses cookies? I found a reference in Cook Book of the Ladies' Aid Society, Evangelical Lutheran Church of Our ... - Google Books.

cardamom is one of the most expensive spices in the world at $5-10 an ounce for powder and $30 a pound for pods, 5 cents in 1920 is approximately 63 cents today.

This recipe is for a huge batch of "Cookies" Since her recipes give no directions whatsoever, I have no idea of the end quantity or even the size of each cookie. If I made them It would be a total experiment. The recipe calls for cardamom seeds, and I don't know if they are used whole or ground.

(Hmmm. wonder where I could get a pound of good quality lard?)

So, VedaBeeps, how much Cardamom would 63 cents buy? I'll have to check. Thanks for that info.

I'd think if it is cookies, I'd want the cardamom seeds ground. They're fairly large, and wouldn't quite be like biting into a chocolate chip.

Lard.. you have any local pig farmers nearby to ask?

try a 'pinch' ..

Please post the recipe so we can see how much butter, sugar, flour etc and make an educated guess. The amount 63c will buy is a red herring because it assumes that the price of cardamom has risen exactly the same as inflation, which is generally not the case.

If I were to experiment and make a batch, I'd probably use a scant tsp. of ground cardamom.

I would not use seeds whole.

Perhaps your Grandmother could only get seeds, and not ground seed, and she crushed them. I can't imagine biting into a whole seed.

Maybe the 5 cents referred to the size of a nickel, as in poured out in your hand. Unless baking, I'm pretty good at palm-of-the hand measurements for up to a tablespoonful.

I have been google searching and google searching and to the best of my ability, I have concluded that it is actually referring to the amount that 5 cents would buy at the time. That will be hard to decipher! If you would post the recipe...others can probably come to an educated guess as to how much of that spice would be appropriate for the cookie recipe in relation to all the other ingredients.

I've seen that kind of instruction in recipes, sushipup, and it's usually "as much [whatever] as will cover a [name of coin]".

In reading about some old recipes, there is a lot of eyeballing by size. So I am even more convinced that it's 'size of a 5 cent piece'. Remember that OP's recipe is from her grandmother's journal, so shorthand would be normal.

It wouldn't be the whole pods. That is used for infusions or teas. When you break open the pods inside are the seeds. A bit like mustard seed in size and shape and hard. Ground would be for most recipes. Nice scent. Like a ginger powder.

I have a big jar and the are like a semi-hard papery husk.

When i need an ingredient, i often say "just a dollars worth".

Guessing most spice was offered in bulk tins if a coin amount is written. Might be, once husked, about a tsp of seed. Ground fresh is very fragrant so buying pre-ground might need a bit more.

I think that it's a true value meaning in the old recipes. Because I was seeing "5 cents worth of Chocolate" and then I saw "5 cents worth of walnuts" with a notation that said 1/5 of a mason jar. So that was definitely not using the size of a coin. Back in the olden days, people had very little money and a nickel was a LOT of money. At the time, it probably made sense because there was most likely ONE store about the size of a small house and everyone knew exactly how many pennies something cost.

I agree with Arkansas girl.

As for trying to figure things out in today's money, the problem with that is that spice prices are all over the place. Locally for me, for instance, a glass jar of McCormick cardamom seeds costs about $5, while I can get Badia for $2 for twice as much.

The only way to make a guess would be from the recipe itself.

You definitely want to grind the cardamon. It has a lovely, subtle flavor in small quantities or as an infusion. But if you bite into a whole cardamon seed or pod, you notice a strong flavor with notes of turpentine. When I stick a cardamon pod in my cream of wheat for flavor, I'll bite into it, but often don't eat more than one seed. I'd love cookies with ground cardamon, but I suspect even I would spit out cardamon pods or whole seeds in cookies.

Ok... you'll laugh:

1 pound lard

1 pound butter

1 pound maple syrup

1 pound sugar

five cents worth of Cartmond seed - (cardamom? )

4 pounds of flour

2 1/3 teaspoon soda

cinnamon to taste

Wow!! That's a lot of cookies!! and likely it would take a lot of "cartmond"! My guess would be about a tablespoon or the seeds in the husk...perhaps more....and the seeds should be de husked and pounded.
At least she weighed...my grandmother measured with a broken handled tea cup.

5 cents could also refer to the weight since most of the other ingredients are weighed. A set of balance scales would have a one pound weight, but it doesn't take a lot of cardamom, which would take a small, fractional weight, so it might be the weight of a nickel, which would be a convenient slug. The nickel of that period weighs 5 grams.

I agree that the seeds would have been pounded.

In that time frame, it's highly unlikely that she would have had a kitchen balance scale that would be sensitive enough to weigh 5 grams. I have several antique balance scales and none but apothecary scales are nearly that sensitive. And if she were being precise as all that she would have put in mixing directions and certainly baking temperature.
I am sure she meant a nickle's worth of cardamom. I have recipes calling for a 10 cent can of tuna and $.50 worth of salt pork.

No eggs!

My conversion table says that a cup of flour is about 4 1/2 ounces, and a cup of sugar is 7 ounces (although powdered sugar is 4 ounces and brown sugar is 7 1/2 ounces).

So my conversion of those pounds would be, in approximates:

2 cups lard

2 cups butter

2 1/4 cups sugar

2 cups maple syrup (although honey is 12 oz per cup, it's thicker)

16 cups flour

My recipe for cardamom cookies comes from The Spice House, so it has a LOT of cardamom, but calls for 4 teaspoons of ground cardamom with 2 cups of flour and 3/4 cup of butter, 1/2 cup of sugar. Those are approximately the measures here, although the fat ratio is somewhat higher, but then that maple syrup has to be factored in. Using that very loosely based "formula", the cardamom would be 24 teaspoons, LOL, or 8 tablespoons!

Anyway, with no other seasoning (lemon peel, vanilla, etc.), I'd go a bit heavy on the cardamom, although not maybe quite that much. If you're making that large batch, though, I'd use at least 2 tablespoons, because it's the only "flavor" besides the maple syrup.

And that, of course, has nothing to do with how much is a nickel's worth, just my own take on what I'd use. I might start with 2 tablespoons, bake one and taste it, and then add more if I thought the recipe warranted it.

I do have cardamom, both ground and pods, because I used the ground stuff in Sol's Dirt Bombs:

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2399099/dirt-bombs

Have fun, and let us know what you decide. I'd give you the pound of lard, if you were closer!

Annie

Even a quarter of that recipe would make a lot of cookies! Someone has to try it and post the results....

Linda, I daresay you're right. Our old scale was very sensitive, and had these tiny weights down to the size of my pinkie nail--the kind that are easy to lose!--so I didn't realize that other old scales weren't as accurate.

I did have some time with elder neighbors 20yrs ago before they passed on. It is a small community where we have our farm in the Catskill Mnts. Lots of history. The local store was tiny....and had a bowling alley!

annie, annie~!! You are forgetting "cinnamon to taste!"...likely you could use less cardamom with "cinnamon to taste"! LOL!
Pillog, your weights were apothacary weights. I should dig out my old scales....but I only know where one is....and that's a grocery store balance scale. I did have a spring scale and one with the sliding weight on the arm...but the only one I can find is the grocery scale. It looks great on my counter full of fruits or vegetables.
OK...now who's going to work that recipe out to the measure of half cup or butter and half cup of lard? Do you suppose they are drop cookies? or perhaps rolled into a ball and rolled in cinnamon sugar?...and I would add 1/4 tsp of salt to half a cup of butter.....and bake at 375 until they are done!!

Yes, Lindac, I did miss that cinnamon to taste. I'd still add that much cardamom to start, though, because I want spice cookies to taste like spice cookies, not like sugar cookies. (grin) And remember, you have 16 cups of flour and 4 cups of fat!

So, I'm going with my original 2 tablespoons of cardamom in the full batch, even with "cinnamon to taste".

If Elery and I weren't on this foolish diet, I'd bake the cookies myself, but that would not accomplish much because I don't know how they are "supposed" to taste.

Annie

I googled "vintage cookbook researcher" and got some interesting hits; one was this site which may provide some support (sadly the scholar attached to the site passed away about two years ago, Lynne Olver) -- maybe there is someone else like her out there?

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodfaqa.html

Linda, They might have been the same sizes as apothecary weights, but the big weights went up to big. I don't know the numbers, but five or ten pounds. They were full sized scales.

I'm sure they were.....it's not the 5 and 10 pounds that are the issue but the 5 grams.

If someone besides me is hot to try this, I left out:

1 1/2 pound almonds

2 lemons

I don't know if the almonds are ground or chopped, and I presume the lemons are squeezed.

My Grandmother lived in Stewart, Nebraska, so I don't suppose they had a spice store with fancy scales. Actually, I'm wondering where she got the lemons.... which still don't grow in backyards in Nebraska.

I'm thinking about making a quarter of this recipe next week... just for fun.

Annie: The amount from your recipe helped a bit. I'll start there.

HB: no eggs listed.

Cookies

(as written by Grandmother Christina )

1 pound lard

1 pound butter

1 pound maple syrup

1 pound sugar

1 1/2 pound almonds

2 lemons

five cents worth of Cartmond seed - (cardamom? )

4 pounds of flour

2 1/3 teaspoon soda

cinnamon to taste

No directions so I’m not sure what you do with the lemon. I’m almost tempted to make this, but I’m not sure how the 5 cents worth of cardamom would translate to today.

Hmmm. I'm thinking the lemon zest is added to the dough, that's what my recipe calls for and is common in lightly spiced cookies.

I'll be watching to see how those cookies turn out, Kate. Where will you get the fresh lard, though? (grin)

In a pinch I suppose you could use shortening, but do NOT tell anyone I said that...

Annie

So was this for church? Ranch hands? Many many offspring? Just curious...

I'm heading to the supermarket to get lard (Crisco), almonds, and maple syrup. I always have ground Cardamom in the spice cabinet. Lord help me, I'm addicted to cookies! Results after lunch.

I want to hear how these turn out! I love experimenting in the kitchen.

When my great-aunt Nena shared her tea cake recipe (they were the best!), it was measured in terms of "a handful of..." or "two handsfuls of..." "a pinch", and pounds of this or that. No measuring cups or spoons. No one has been able to duplicate her recipe to taste like hers, although I found a recipe in a magazine that came pretty close, and reminds me of this delightful, kind and loving woman.

Jill T.

Grandmother Christina? Swedish? German? What ethnicity? Also thinking that the zest and juice of 2 lemons. Would need acid to make the soda work.

Nice, Ricky!

So was this for church? Ranch hands? Many many offspring? Just curious...

I also am wondering why so many. Are these good keeping cookies, like old-fashioned molasses cookies?

Why so many cookies? Maybe to feed the hands at harvest time. I remember farm women cooking tons of food to feed wheat harvest crews.

I agree, it's a huge recipe. I'm assuming it's either to feed farm hands, or large families, I know farm families could have 10 or 12 kids, easily. Or maybe it's one of those church potluck recipes that people are "famous" for, enough for everyone.

Ricky, thanks for trying that, those look really good. I like the idea of rolling the cookie in the nuts instead of adding them to the dough. Those might make a good "thumbprint" too, filled with lemon curd!

Annie

Yes, Thanks Ricky for making the recipe. They look yummy.

Q: did you put any of the nuts in the dough or only rolled the balls in them?

My German Grandparents had 8 children, and didn't have farm hands, but that huge of a recipe might have been for Church functions.

Thank to all who have taken interest in this recipe. It's been fun. I'm sending a link to my cousins who might enjoy reading this thread's evolution.

Kate

If Grandma Christine had 8 children, she didn't have time to roll cookies in chopped nuts. I am sure they are drop cookies and the juice of the lemon is supposed to be added to the dough.
Maybe I'll have time tomorrow to make my own version.

I just realized that Ricky didn't use the juice and was going to ask why. Also, I think the almonds went into the dough. My grandmother was a very good cook and so just may have rolled the balls in some of the almonds; OR she might have squished them with a glass to make them flatter. Directions would have been nice.

Wondering now if this might have been a bar cookie, something nourishing for the lunch box, maybe like today's Kind Bars.

Kate - no almonds inside the cookies. I've never had a cookie that had almonds inside, only on the surface. As far as the lemons go, there was no mention of juice, just 2 lemons. From my own experience, zest lends more flavor to a cookie than juice, so I followed experience here.

Extrapolating from your original post, these cookies were baked during the Great Depression. I doubt your grandmother would have wasted the lemons. My guess is that she would have used the zest for the cookies and squeezed the juice into something else.

I found a recipe that has similar ingredients so I'm copying it here for comparison...

(Note that it does not have maple syrup and does include egg and a bit of milk and no leavening.)

Cardamom Cookies

"A great spice cookie, brings back memories! Hint: this cookie dough behaves a lot like pie pastry and in fact makes a wonderful crust for a fruit tart."

Ingredients

• 1 cup all-purpose flour
• 1/2 cup white sugar
• 1/4 teaspoon ground cardamom
• 1 pinch ground cinnamon
• 1/4 teaspoon grated lemon peel

• 1/4 cup ground almonds
• 6 tablespoons butter
• 1 egg
• 2 teaspoons milk
• 1/3 cup granulated sugar for decoration

Directions

1. Sift together flour, sugar, and spices; stir in peel and almonds. Cut in margarine till mixture resembles coarse crumbs. Stir in egg and milk till mixture forms a ball; chill.
2. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F (200 degrees C).
3. Roll out to about 1/8-inch thickness. Cut into circles 1-3/4 inches in diameter. Place on ungreased cookie sheet; sprinkle with sugar. Bake for 6 to 8 minutes until edges are brown.

Those are not "depression cookies"..the original recipe that is. That is. However, remember that during the Depression, not everyone was broke. My mother worked as a sales person and colorist in a portrait studio, and my father sold stocks and bonds. There were people buying luxury goods.

Ricky, I've had cookies with ground/chopped almonds in them. Swedish Wedding cookies do, and cardamom is a popular spice in Scandinavian baking.

I got the bright idea to call the only living relative from that side of the family. Aunt didn't remember the recipe, but when I told her the quantities she thought the cookies were probably refrigerator cookies that would be made into multiple rolls and kept until needed; then Grandmother would slice-off what she wanted and bake them. This would explain why the recipes are so huge... you made cookies once in a great while because they were a lot of work back then. And, she also thought the almonds were ground and went into the batter. She thought the lemon juice and peel were also used as well. I will try making the cookies tomorrow.

I found this recipe for Orange Cardamom Icebox Cookies from an Oklahoma newspaper. It's quite similar to yours if you switched out lemon for the orange, although it does include eggs. Might give you an idea for the amount of cardamom. It does give a maple syrup (although they call for pancake syrup, maybe because of its corn syrup base?) sweetener option, too, instead of the corn syrup. No almonds, though, but I think ground finely they would make a great addition. The icebox (instead of refrigerator) name might indicate its age, although it's been updated with modern ingredients, perhaps.

"About This Recipe

"M-m-m-m! Tired of ordinary, ho-hum
cookies? If so, then treat your taste buds to these Orange-Cardamom
Icebox cookies! They are yummy! I've lost count of the times I've made
them, since I discovered this recipe in "The Daily Oklahoman" newspaper
about two years ago. Preparation time: 2 hours and 10 minutes. Includes 2
hours for chilling dough in the refrigerator."

Ingredients

• • 
    1 1/4 cups
    granulated sugar
    
• 
  1 cup
  butter flavor shortening
  
• 
  1
  egg
  
• 
  1/4 cup light corn syrup or 1/4 cup
  regular pancake syrup
  
• 
  1 tablespoon
  freshly grated orange rind
  
• 
  1 teaspoon
  vanilla
  
• 
  1/2 teaspoon
  orange extract
  
• 
  3 cups
  all-purpose flour
  
• 
  1 1/4 teaspoons
  cardamom
  
• 
  3/4 teaspoon
  baking powder
  
• 
  1/2 teaspoon
  baking soda
  
• 
  1/2 teaspoon
  salt
  
• 
  1/2 teaspoon
  cinnamon
  

Directions

1. Combine sugar and shortening in large bowl.
2. Beat at medium speed of electric mixer until well blended.
3. Add egg, syrup, orange peel, vanilla and orange extract.
4. Beat until well blended and fluffy.
5. Combine flour, cardamom, baking powder, baking soda, salt and cinnamon.
6. Add gradually to creamed mixture at low speed.
7. Mix until well blended.
8. Divide dough in half.
9. Roll each half into a 12-inch long log.
10. Wrap and chill 4 hours or until firm.
11. Heat oven to 375°F.

Directions

1. Grease baking sheets with shortening.
2. Place sheets of foil on counter for cooling cookies.
3. Cut rolls into 1/4-inch slices.
4. Place 1 inch apart on prepared baking sheets.
5. Bake at 375° for 7 to 9 minutes or until bottoms are lightly browned.
6. Do not overbake.
7. Cool 2 minutes on baking sheet.
8. Remove cookies to foil to cool completely.

Makes about 5 dozen cookies.

Orange cardamom icebox cookies