That island though, is it instead a bar top height the whole thing, or split level with kitchen facing area being 36" and the rest being 42 or 48" to be bar-stool height? It seems the island is more preferable over a U shape for sure. Do you all agree? More of a matter between what type of island such as shape, size, and elevations...

Do the rectangle with the prep sink in the island like Mama is showing on her second drawing. Also realize that depending on the width of the table it might be a bit tight between the counter stools and table, though not terrible.

You have 20' of kitchen/dining area or 240".

240" - 25.5" (perimeter counters, not taking into account the cooktop) = 214.5"

214.5" - 48" (aisle) = 166..5"

166.5" - 42" (island) = 124.5"

Switching to the dining room, you need a minimum of 3' between the table and wall of the dining table and that's bare minimum

124.5" - 36" (between table and wall) = 88"

88" - 42" (standard dining table width) = 46.5" between your island and your dining table. What you have is doable, but tight. I know because that's about what I had in my condo.

Ideally they say to have a minimum of 5' between the table and the island. One way you could increase the aisle width is to make a banquet seating along the wall so the table is closer to the wall.

I prefer the island all one level, on either configuration. You're not hiding dirty dishes, since the clean-up zone would be on the short wall, and a large expanse of island top is better for prepping, rolling pastry, spreading out cooky sheets, etc.

Am I reading the image correctly - the only upper cabinet you have is an angled corner?

The rectangle would have to run length wise parallel to the dining table then To have 4' between the fridge and rectangle corner means more like 4' 8" between the countertops and the island...which is nice, but excessive when trying to save space. This means the island either a.) should not extend as far as the fridge b.) should not worry about 4' there and instead have more like 3' 4" at that point or c.) angle the island so it looks like a chip off the corner, leaving more room for walking between fridge and island. Ideas?

mama - I definitely want to have a bar top. It's the modern thing and ideal for a couple or a few friends. Just something fun. I don't mind having 30" of counter top and 18" of bar top because I would not have a prep sink there for my own reasons (sorry). So it would be a solid work surface through the whole length.

AnnKH - That's not the only one. Just a rough drawing that demonstrates cabinet depths more than anything. There are wall cabinets all along the L, but none would be above the island or above the 3rd leg of the U.

Based on comments here over several years...not sure a bar-top height counter is a modern thing. In fact, many remodelers are removing their bar-top counters and replacing them with one-level counter height surfaces. There are many positives for one larger counter high top.

Actually a bar top dates a kitchen if you care about that. And if you're hoping for a surface for entertaining, you'll have a lot more space if everything is one height.

What height is that then, ranton? Around here they are just starting to pick up. This area is always slow to pick up on trends. The past few houses I walked thru in construction had excessive bar tops. I'm not going for that, something modest but functional. I'm not sure how I would like say... 42" high top when working on that space, and what about lower cabinets then? I would not want to sit at standard counter top height, I'd just use the table then. :P Maybe I'll mock it up and try, but I don't know if I'd like that! I know that single level islands are great, but they are also typically showy with something like a $3k slab of granite. This would not be what I am going for. I'd be using butcher block or a countertop skin like formica to get a custom size.

One height would all be 36" high. Same as countertops. My sister who is 6' tall has that in her kitchen and she is quite happy with it.

I think using butcher block or formica will look just fine on the island even with it all the same height. And actually counter height stools are much more comfortable than sitting at bar height.

I believe the 36" high straight island would be best.

Yeah I am looking into the design. Tried to move everything over a good foot to allow more room between dining and the island. Looks like majority of vote is no bar top at all.... I can see having a 3' tall island, but if it's used as a bar to seat 2-3 people, then that means 2 sides have to be hollow underneath the part for people to sit. If I just do one half without cabinets, that's only gonna seat 2 people. If I did a 6' long island 3 would be doable but probably crammed. I suppose the loss of pathway and extra crowded area if I were to have a U-Shape kitchen with the long leg being bar top would not be worth it.

24" per person is a norm. Turning corners especially with a 45 degree corner, wastes and incredible amount of space and becomes expensive.,

I'm still not sure about the distance between fridge and island. I'm gonna mock it up and see what it feels like.

The rectangular island will definitely take up less room and give you a better aisle b/w the table and island.

Regarding the heights discussed here:

• Table-height is 30" off the finished floor
• Counter-height is 36" off the finished floor
• Bar-height is 42" off the finished floor

For seating comfort, table-height is the most comfortable and bar-height the least comfortable. For an island or peninsula, counter-height is a nice compromise b/w table- and bar-height.

Functionally, a counter all one height is much more useful than one broken up by different heights.

Seating recommendations:

Table-height seating:

• Overhang - a minimum of 18" of clear leg/knee space
• Linear spacing - a minimum of 24" linear space per seat, with 30" much better

Counter-height seating:

• Overhang - a minimum of 15" of clear leg/knee space
• Linear spacing - a minimum of 24" linear space per seat

Bar-height seating:

• Overhang - a minimum of 12" of clear leg/knee space (15" is much better both for comfort and functionality. 12" isn't deep enough to much of anything on the raised counter)
• Linear spacing - a minimum of 24" linear space per seat

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Aisles...

Island/Refrigerator aisle...For the aisle b/w the island and range wall, it depends on what type of refrigerator you plan to have: standard-depth (~36" total depth) or counter-depth (~30" total depth). With a counter-depth refrigerator , I think 48" would be fine. It would give you approximately 42" b/w the refrigerator and island. However, if you have a standard-depth and it's not recessed into the wall behind it to make it look counter-depth, then you may want it wider. I would aim for at least 40" b/w the island and refrigerator handles.

Island/Sink aisle...For the aisle b/w the sink wall and the island, I would have a minimum of 45", with 48" better. This allows you to have a DW door open and be able to maneuver around it to put dishes away or to let someone walk by while the DW door is open.

BTW...aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest - counters, appliance handles, walls, etc. They are not measured cabinet-to-cabinet. The 24-inch depth of base cabinets only includes the cabinet boxes, not the doors/drawer fronts and knobs/pulls. Counters overhang cabinet boxes by around 1.5" to cover the doors/drawer fronts and the knobs/pulls.

So, at a minimum, you need to measure counter-to-counter. If there's an appliance in the aisle, then measure to/from the appliance handle and the counter on the other side of the aisle (or whatever is directly across from it.)

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Table Spacing...

We have 48" b/w our table and peninsula counter and it's not enough if you have people sitting in both places, which is possible if you have two seating areas so close together. I strongly advise a minimum of 54" b/w them, with 60" much better.

Also, keep in mind that if that's a slider "above" the table, then you should have 48" b/w the slider and table to allow someone to use the slider while someone else is sitting at the table - unless you are not planning on having a seat on that end of the table. If that's the case, then 36" b/w the slider and table should be enough.

(CPArtist already mentioned the 36" minimum b/w the table and the wall on the right.)

You might consider a bench along the right wall for the table to give you wider aisles - a banquette-type bench with comfortable cushions and a padded back.

Oh and if you do not plan other upper cabinets, get rid of the diagonal corner cabinet. It will look out of place without other upper cabinets flanking it. Even with other upper cabinets, I strongly recommend against a deep diagonal corner cabinet; instead go with an "easy reach" cabinet - they are far easier to use/access.

You need dish storage, so plan out your storage b/f you eliminate your uppers. Your Kitchen is not very big, so some uppers may be necessary.

I'm always on Team Function vs Team Appearance. This is not a large kitchen, so all square inches matter. Where are the plates going? Silverware? Glasses and mugs? Pots and pans? Casserole dishes and cake pans? Mixer? Crock pot? Cookie sheets? Mixing bowls? Oils? Herbs and spices? I would go with an island that has 2 runs of cabinets back to back underneath and folks can just eat at the table 5 feet away or lean on the counter for conversation. Especially if you're not going to do uppers, you need to very carefully plan out all available space.

Think about standing at the stove cooking. Last night I made a green bean dish that needed some olive oil, onion, garlic, oregano, parsley, salt and pepper, canned tomatoes, and frozen green beans. While I can go across the room to the pantry for the tomatoes and maybe onion, I don't want to go there for the herbs and oil, use a bit and walk back across the room to return them to their places. I want those things close by the stove. Oils, vinegars, soy sauce, etc. are in the upper just to the right of the stove, directly above this drawer. Handy!

In case you guys missed it, I have uppers. The drawing had that corner as a point of depth reference. Thanks for the tips though, handy information about islands and seating.

I did miss the uppers! Sorry.

So did I Suzanne!

I like mama goose's 2nd drawing. It's much more classic/modern, and any countertop looks best in a rectangle, in my humble opinion, and will be cheaper to fabricate because it's got 4 straight cuts.

If you're not going to do a prep sink in the island, your sink and fridge might be too far apart as is and block the flow a little to the living room/family room. I'd maybe locate the fridge next to where the DW currently is and put the dishwasher in the island. Or flip the sink and the range.

Apparently, good kitchen design comes down to "ice, water, stone, fire" meaning you want your food storage (ice - fridge/pantry) from which to grab items, then a sink ("water") to assist in preparing those items, then "stone" (counter space) to prep the food, then "fire" (range/oven) too cook. Usually you want your range out of the traffic pattern/furthest away from meddling guests.