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maison2017

Getting ice dams after polyurethane insulation, is it normal?

Mike
7 years ago

Hi all,

We're into a major renovation of a split level raised bungalow. We had the upper floor and roof sprayed with closed-cell polyurethane (people call it spray foam = SPF)

The upper-floor walls were sprayed 4 inches = R-24

The roof was sprayed 5.5-6 inches = R-33 to R-36

The lower floor will be done next week.

It's a cathedral ceiling so no attic space, and no ventilation. We're spraying the foam on the roof itself, which should insulate enough to avoid snow melting and ice dam formation. However we still have ice dams. I'll be talking to my contractor Monday when they get back from holidays, but I wanted to get some input here before. By the way the insulation company is a very reputed and knowledgeable one, but could it be bad quality work? It doesn't look like it...

The way I understand insulation, if you get proper roof SPF insulation then you shouldn't have heat escaping, so no snow melting and no ice dams... or are they unavoidable in real life?

Also the exterior of the house is gutted too. The new windows are installed but not yet insulated. The soffites weren't removed and no work outside yet. Only thing that was done is SPF and window installation before the holidays.

One last note, we had freezing rain in the last 2 weeks... I know it's not a commonly listed factor for ice dams, but could it have played a role?

What do you guys think? I'd appreciate any input please. Here are some pictures during installation. Sorry for quality.


Comments (8)

  • energy_rater_la
    7 years ago

    no experience with ice dams, but looking at the pics your insulation isn't the same depth from rafter bay to rafter bay.

    look at the depth by comparing how much of the rafter is exposed.

    the last rafter bay has half the insulation of the ones next it.

    I'd also be concerned that the end of the rafter bays are fully sealed

    and insulated. air leakage at soffit area would contribute to ice

    dams imo.


    best of luck

    Mike thanked energy_rater_la
  • Mike
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I just checked and in real life there's no difference in insulation deth... I don't know why the picture shows otherwise, maybe it's the lighting when I took the picture.

    @klem1 : maybe I'm being paranoid, it could just be icicles due to natural weather conditions, like you say.

  • armoured
    7 years ago

    I have no opinion on your installation there - but I would not call call those ice dams. As klem1 put it up above, sun will heat up snow, some will flow down roof to edges, and icicles form as water drips down. Normal when conditions are right. Will happen at overhangs and corners.

    I would worry about ice dams/collections where blocks of ice are forming in either very large amounts and/or over 'house footprint' (over the parts of the roof that should be barriers to heat getting through). The main difference being that it should not be the heat from the house that's doing the melting, but the air/sun/environment, and the roof evenly cold in most places (except for sun/shade differences). Note in the real world there's probably always some heat from below getting up, but should be only a bit

  • Vith
    7 years ago

    X-posted in remodeling

    Normal with freeze thaw, if the icicles
    get huge then perhaps not. Only other idea is heat escaping from windows
    is getting in the soffit. Icicles seem more above the windows. Perhaps
    insulate roof inside the soffit as well.

    If snow accumulates a lot you need to remove it off the roof with a
    roof rake. Roof can hold a fair amount of weight but a lot of snow gets
    pretty heavy.

  • fsq4cw
    7 years ago

    Here’s my take. We live in the land of deep freezes.
    Temperature this morning was about -12˚F. Cold enough?

    I would spray foam the ceiling, in the attic and that’s it.
    I would have open soffits and good roof ventilation. You want to keep the heat
    in the envelope of the house. Once it’s left the envelope of the living space
    and escaped to the attic – it’s over. You then want the attic to be the same
    temperature as the outside so as to not develop moister, mold, rot, water
    damming, etc.

    You also want sufficient air movement and removal during the
    hot summer too.

    We also use a roof vent, common here, I don’t know if it’s
    common in the States, which is designed to stick up through any accumulation of
    snow so that snow cannot block airflow.


    Hope this helps.

    IMPO

    SR

    "Maxi-Vent"

  • Vith
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Did you read? There is no attic. Just the roof joists. There are only two ways to do it:

    1. Seal the joist space with spray foam or

    2. Run a baffle from soffit to a ridgevent for venting the roof and insulation with warm sided vapor barrier in the joist space.

    Obviously both are harder in cold climate which needs more R value. Possible to put sleepers to increase joist depth for more insulation.

    Yes in houses with attic, fully vent the attic and attic temp should be similar as outside. Proper intakes at soffit and exhausts near the top, ridge vent preferred.

  • fsq4cw
    7 years ago

    Yup, You're right - no attic!

    Never mind.


    SR