Thanks for the information. I agree with you on the oven, I already ask the designer to lower them.

I have a pantry by the fridge.

I will have some under the counter.

I asked couple times and because of two pipes, and sporting top it has to be that thick.

Microwave for my husband's use, and he is fine, but I can consider MW drawer.

The size appliances are right.

Since I have one 24" and one 12" (I thought nice to have them same size and use it for cook books,...) posts how can I design my island better?

Post size...which one must be 24"x24"? The one that's part of the wall b/w the Kitchen and Living Room or the one that's in the middle of the room?

The one in the middle of the room.

I do make my own bread and pizzas. I use lots of veggies for my cooking. I need a large place to prepare those. I make yogurt weekly and kefir almost daily. I do not use canned food. I am thinking to start a cooking club. I thought large island will be a good idea. Also beside food and gatherings my husband and teenage son don't use this side of the house. They have their office and we watch TV in downstairs in rec. room. Over there I also have a small kitchen and I use it for messy cooking.

So glad you posted here. Buehl

is amazing!

How do you feel about banquette seating? Since the oversize post is the one in the middle of the room, it presents problems for fitting a full-size table with chairs on all four sides. Banquette-style seating on two sides would help.

How far off the floor is the window to the right of the sliding doors?

Will a counter-depth refrigerator be big enough for you?

[I was hoping the large post was the one on the wall with the fireplace! Oh well.]

OK...a couple of ideas. They're mostly the same...the differences being the locations of the ovens, locations and types of pantries, and the bench.

It's late, so I don't have time for a detailed analysis tonight...I will see about doing it sometime tomorrow.

Quickly...

Dining Room...Because the right post has to be 24" x 24", I couldn't reduce the island to allow comfortable aisles b/w the island and the table with chairs. You need at least 33" b/w the wall and table if no traffic passes behind the seats; more if there is traffic and/or a door. So, to compensate for this, I put in banquette seating on two sides of the table and put in a narrower table - 39" deep instead of 42". It's still going to be a bit tight at 45" b/w the island and table, but at least it will be navigable.

Dish Storage...I moved the dish drawers to the other side of the sink b/c you should have your dishes closer to the Dining Room and located so someone setting the table isn't drawn too far into the main working area of the Kitchen.

Island...There is plenty of room (width and depth) on the island for your baking and kefir making. There's a sink in the island to make the island useful as the primary Prep Zone. If someone else also wants to help prep, there's a secondary Prep Zone next to the cleanup sink Note that the seating space is wider than 96" for four seats. You need extra space to maneuver in/out of the seats b/c of the posts on each end.

Trash pullout...The trash pullout is in the island where it's needed most. It could be either next to the prep sink or on the other end of the island - I can see advantages to both locations. (Far more trash & recyclables are generated while prepping and cooking than cleaning up, and for a longer period of time.)

What's different?

• Double ovens location.
• Pantry locations

I like the pantry style in Layout #1 best b/c it's almost as good as a built-in pantry. However, I'm not particularly happy with the oven location b/c it's so close to the garage entry and someone coming in and around the corner might run into an open oven door.

In Layout #2, I moved the ovens so they're recessed into the wall and post b/w the fireplace and island. It also brings the ovens closer to the island for when you're baking.

BTW...you need landing space next to the ovens. It can be across the aisle if there's no traffic. In your case, traffic is a possibility b/c of the location of the entry from the garage. (This is another issue with your original layout.)

Layout #1:

.

Layout #2:

.

Zone Map for both Layouts #1 & #2:

.

Dining Room:

.

Layout #1 - bench area:

.

Layout #2 - bench area:

I like both of buehl's plans much better than having the cooktop on the island.

Either of beuhl's plans work better. I think I prefer the second one. As beuhl said the majority of your time is spent prepping, not cooking the food, so you really want to be "visiting" while prepping. I think it is 70% is spent prepping and 10% cooking?

I like Buehls first plan because pantry is shallower and lines up better.

Just a question about your larger post. Can it be made smaller by using wood instead of drywall to enclose it?

This is amazing Buehl! Thank you very much!

We will have a large fridge, but will push it into garage (we use it as storage) for to make it counter dept look.

The carpenter put the tape on the floor and first plan. Everything looked right on space except the double oven. It was too close to the garage door. Then we recalculated the column in that side. The column has to be minimum (naked) 10x6 from the garage door side. 6" toward the other column and 10" toward the window side. We are convinced that we must put the double Owen by the little column.

Q-How far off the floor is the window to the right of the sliding doors?

A- it is 12"

Also the window starts 14" off the wall. I thought about build in sitting cabinet there, but not enough space. I could ask him to place them 6" to the left, then I think I will miss the counter space, and the windows look crumbled.

Karenseb, not sure how much space we can save like that. Maybe inch each side?

That would not be helpful. ):

Buehl, as I mentioned earlier the carpenter put the tape on the floor and first plan. Everything looked right on space except the double oven. It was too close to the garage door. I will have a french door fridge and looks like distance will be fine. I am trying to understand the seating side of the island. Do you recommend bar high or one level?

One level. It will make the island much more useful for your baking and prepping. I put in 9" deep cabinets under the overhang for seldom-used items, but if you want it to be all overhang, that's fine as well.

Which plan - my first plan or your plan in the first post? I assume you mean my Layout #1. I was pretty sure it would be too close to the garage door, but I thought I'd put it out there as an option in case I was wrong.

So, the second plan worked/looked good?

Yes it did! Thank you very much. We just need to place it nicely. Because the column right now without the drywall 10x6 . 6" toward the other column and 10" toward the window side. Maybe Maybe behind the 10" (after the counter) I can put some shelves for books and/or charging station for small gadgets.

I am also checking dining table with chairs and upholstered banks.

Do you recommend water over the cook-top?

Believe me I am open to any ideas. thank you again.

"Do you recommend water over the cook-top?"

I'm sorry, but I don't understand the question. If you're asking do I recommend a prep sink in the island instead of the cooktop - absolutely, yes! :-)

Buehl, I think she is asking about a pot filler.

Ah! Personally, I'm not a fan of potfillers - too many things can go wrong.

• There's no sink to catch a leak - and to me, this is a biggie!
• You only have access to cold water and it cannot be run for a minute or so to get "fresh" water from the pipes
• If you don't have the shutoff valve exposed inside a cabinet or otherwise available, you have the issue of not being able to shut off the water w/o knocking a hole in the wall
• Extra plumbing and extra fixtures to purchase

Keep in mind that even if you have a pot filler, the real need is a sink close by for draining/dumping a pot of boiling water - and you do have a sink close by, so, to me, it's not needed (or desired). However, some people swear by them, so YMMV (your mileage may vary).

.

A quote from Tubeman (a GWer):

"A friend with a pot filler says she never uses it because if she goes a week in between uses she has to fill the pot then dump the pot then fill it again to get fresh water. So if you have to do that there is no use for it. They look cool but unless you cook pasta or large pots of soup everyday you will be using stale water. All of the commercial kitchens I have worked in have not had one."

From: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2668743/pot-filler-question

Thank you very much buehl! I don't think I need it. Now need to decide for the cabinet style and color. I kind of like Scandinavian look. Clean lines. I need to pick the floor also. I was thinking kitchen and entrance tile, but island is sneaking in the dining side:) Since I have two prep zone and sinks I guess I can go with all hardwood. Just the entrance can have tile. Is there any suggestion for that?

Other question is should I do island cabinets same color as the rest or different? How can I prevent it getting dirty fast?

I think in a smaller space for a Scandinavian clean look keeping the color differences minimal is helpful in making it flow better, but that doesn't mean you can't do different colors, just try to not make sharp color difference. Ie black and white. However a light wood and white would look good together. Not sure I understand the question of prevent it getting dirty fast? Are you meaning you want something to hide the dirt better?

So I'm curious about running the faucet for fresh water. I think to actually get fresh water you'd have to run the water for a very long time (those with a well might get away with for less time or if they don't have a storage tank, maybe not long), but it seems like a waste of water if you're on regular water. I mean no matter what it's been in a pipe for a while unless you're very close to the source. Didn't know water could go stale. If so I guess my RO water would be considered stale since some are generated and then stored. Same for bottled water. Or am I missing something??

@Buehl, update: good news is my contractor moved the dining room windows to the left and made enough place to set a built in bench. I am using your draft for a starting point. Thank you again. I have been shopping around for the cabinets. I am not sure about the second sink. I like to use the island as buffet table during the parties, and I like the look without it, but I know it will be handy. I am between Kraftmaid, Diamond, Kemper and Showplace. I got really good quote from Showplace, but read many negative commend. So between these which cabinet builder is better?

Very nice! I like the bookcase built into the support pillar. Is your counter quartz?