Here's a photo of the raised bed with Washington navel, eureka lemon and hass avocado. The fence I'm thinking of doing espalier on is in the back behind the rose garden.

Or.... I could scootch everything in the raised bed over a bit and espalier on the side fence to the left.

I just hate to move the young trees I already have planted though. They have been in for about a month and are just starting to look like they're at home.

I'd make room for it and plant it in the ground. IMHO Cara Cara navels are a better, more complex tasting orange than the Washington. My Cara Cara tree is a vigorous tree and grows very well in ground, you will not be disappointed, besides, I like growing more rare varieties that aren't normally available in grocery stores, Washington navals are everywhere during the season. Of course, Cara Caras are now too so it's a matter of what you want ultimately.

Evan

Your yard looks wonderful. In a few years, you'll have to post a time lapse of the garden's growth. In ground for best production since you're in 9B. How about a spot in your front yard? Citrus look wonderful especially with the splash of ripe orange globes. My cara cara is in a pot - freshman year in the house hold. Wish I could put in ground here.

Allow me to clarify my comments above, the Washington naval is a fantastic piece of fruit and deserves a spot in everyone's yard. However, I believe the Cara Cara naval deserves a place in everyone's yard as well. Fruity paws gave a great suggestion if you have room in your front yard I didn't even think about that. Be careful citrus is addicting, before you know it you'll have 10 trees in your yard or in pots.

Evan

Thanks Evan and Fruity Paws. So... I could put it in the ground along the back fence (would have to espalier), but it would be espaliered right against the fence... no more than 4 inches away. It would actually be a good place for it exposure wise. And it is already growing like it wants to be espaliered (there's lots of room for the roots on the other side of the fence and under the gravel walkway too... but the tree itself would have to be espaliered about 4 inches from the fence. Western exposure.)

Or if i made room in my 'citrus grove' raised bed (its open bottom so it's basically in ground) ... I would have to scoot the other trees closer together. Right now they're about 10 ft apart. If I moved them to 6-8 ft apart I could have room for it in with the other citrus. Is that too close tho? What do you think? Organizationally this would be the best spot for it and the soil is already the best type for citrus, but scooting trees that close might be too much. ??

Unfortunately I have too much shade in the front yard due to very mature trees. Lots of azaleas there instead of sun loving plants. :)

I could also espalier it along the outside of the raised bed wall, but then I would have to keep it short and wide. About 4 feet tall, but it could spread as wide as it wanted.

In with the other citrus trees is really the best place, but isn't 6-8 feet spacing too close for Washington navel, cara cara navel, eureka lemon and hass avocado?

Maybe in ground espaliered along the back fence is better --- even if it's espaliered fairly close to the fence?

Thanks for helping me think this through! :)

Lol. Evan, citrus is addicting. How did you know... I already have 10 trees!

For me, roses are addicting too. As are azaleas. And herbs. ;)

Oh wait... now I have 11. ;)

I have no experience with espalier growth management, but my general experience with my citrus is that spraying might be difficult. Since the leaves would face the sun (away from the fence), it might be very difficult to spray for aphids and mites on the undersides. Of course, if your area had adequate predators, spraying may not be necessary. Spraying with HO or Neem might also stain your wood fencing.

Usually, in this area a no-spray garden has worked for me. I don't think I'm too worried about oil staining the fence, but you make a good point.

If it were you... would you opt to fit it in with the others by scooting the trees closer together instead? I'm really not sure about the idea of spacing them 6-8 ft apart instead of 10. We are here for the duration... we won't be moving. So long term planning is what I'm all about.

Cori If you live out west with sun scoo-chy them together. If you live east with little sun, space them apart

6b Steve

I am in the sun scorched west so I will scoochy. ;)

Placement for sun and air circulation is always important. Orientation for shadowing is as well. Rack and stack the tallest variety (and fastest growing) towards the edge so as not to shade out others. As far as placing close together - you have several factors - pruning if you choose to do so and rootstock. If any of your trees are non non-dwarfing, you'll need to prune more if you put them closer. That said, it's likely a 7+ year issue before that comes a concern. With CA sun, you probably get big bushy growth. On the east coast, they do get a bit more lanky as they tend to reach for the sun a bit more.

Cori Ann, I would not worry about them being too close. It looks like you have the room. A wonderful friend of mine has a Cara Cara. She's only had it for a couple of months. She is in the military, stationed here, but recently found out that she has been selected to be an instructor at the Air Force Academy. If all goes according to plan, she will have to leave the island next year. Seeing her go will be really hard and I will miss her dearly, BUT I get to adopt her Cara Cara and her papaya tree (a good tasting variety!), both in containers. By the time she's gone next year and I take her tree, you'll be an expert and can fill me in with questions I may have : )

If you are OCD about spacing and you have no more space, I would replace the Washington navel with the Cara Cara. You could put it in a container (I have 2 on my roof) but it has to be a big container.

Cara Cara....I have two and I have been told they are better than the Washington Navel! I would make room too) It's a beautiful tree for sure.

Thanks everyone.

John it's funny... I really think I am OCD about spacing. I placed the tree (in its container) up in the bed... about where it will go... got the shovel out and everything is ready for me to move them all over.... I just can't do it yet! Wth? I'm so weird.

I figure if I leave it there for a couple more days I will get over it and be able to scooch them together.

But if not I might need to figure out an alternative, maybe replace the Washington navel, like you said. Or espalier it.

But espalier isn't something anyone recommends huh?

What does espalier mean Cori? Yikes..I am having a brain fat..lool

Oh Mike and Cori Ann, I am so sorry, I don't mean to jump right in between y'alls question, but Mike, an espalier is just gorgeous! It is essentially a way of growing things systematically (horizontally and sometimes vertically) in order to reduce growing space while still having fruit. Very common with apples. Usually, a fence line or another platform is used. Let me post a couple of internet pics.

Oh my God...Figs, I have been a Landscaper for years and never saw that done..I did see many trees like that being sold these past couple of years and thought they were amazing....What holding Cori back????? I would do something like that in a heart beat! Beautiful and thanks for the info...Stupid tired brain today and painful fingers!

You got it Figs. Good visual explanation. The cara cara is already kind of growing like the fan or the cordon so I am thinking of doing it. Espalier is perfect for OCD people like me.

What's holding me back is that it's very close to the fence. I would like to have at least a couple more inches for circulation. And like Fruity Paws said, it could make spraying difficult (if I need to spray - I have been no spray in the past). But it would be pretty awesome as a backdrop to the rose garden and with some climbing roses on either side of it.

Cori Ann, you have such a beautiful backyard. An espalier would be very pretty, but it would personally be very hard for me to train it for years to maturity, not to mention having to do some chopping now and then on perfectly healthy branches that are out of place. However, in your beautifully landscaped yard, it would look great. One can be very creative with designs!!

Mike, what happened to your fingers?

Also the soil up in the raised beds is already the exact right kind for citrus... so that's what's also holding me back. I think I'm just going to let it sit in its pot in the raised bed with the shovel ... like it is now... and keep sleeping on it for a few more nights. I probabaly DO have room in the raised bed. 6-8 feet apart is probabaly perfectly fine. And espalier is hard enough... especially for a newbie to espalier like me.... without making it harder with tight quarters. I need to think this through a little more...

I'd plant your Cara cara in the raised bed and then I'd also buy an Italian lemon on standard rootstock such as macrophylla so that it grows quickly into the espalier shape you want and espalier that. Oh, by the way, did we mention we're all enablers on the forum too!!! Lol

Evan

Cori Ann, I like Evan's plan better- get another tree just for your espalier!! Perfect advice regarding the rootstock which certainly helps.

I think we all come to these forums not only for advice, but also as an excuse to be enabled. ;)

I already have 2 Meyer lemons and a Eureka lemon. I don't really need another lemon tree.... but I will look into what other citrus trees are easiest to espalier. Not a bad idea!

What are you talking about "enabled" Cori Ann? ;-/

Ok ok ok ... so now I am looking into lemons again. Lol. You all are bad.

Tons of Good info on the link below. Enjoy!

http://www.citrusvariety.ucr.edu/varieties.html

Evan

I like enablers ;-)

If you espalier, you will spend more time on that 1 tree than you will spend on all your other trees combined along with the time you spend cleaning house, washing the cars, pulling weeds, cooking and eating, making house repairs, picking the ripe fruits, reading the paper,and ETC.

DO YOU REALLY WANT TO ESPALIER. I don't

6b Steve

I do actually. I understand the time commitment of espalier. Gardening is my zen time... it is one of the ways I relieve stress. I don't see it as a chore like the others you mention. We do have year round conditions, giving more enjoyable time outside in the fall and winter in California than other places, and don't have the same chores of overwintering... so that's probably one of the reasons. I will espalier at some point, just deciding on the right time and place. This might be it. Haven't decided yet. :)

There's always room for one more, surely! Haha the Citrus Addict's mantra. Cori Ann i have a Citrus hedge at home that is about 3 years old and i have them spaced about 1.5m apart for the dwarf trees and 2m apart for the full sized. This has worked out well now they are almost at full size, though they will need annual pruning to keep them from encroaching into each other's space. I've done a blog post about it if you want to look....... http://citrusenthusiast.blogspot.co.nz/2016/11/the-citrus-hedge.html

My Cara Cara's are one of my favourite trees they are very productive fruiters & also within a short time of being in the ground. Plus the fruit tastes beautiful & has its special dark orange hue.

I'd make room if i was you:)

Great blog Troy! I liked the info about summer pruning too.

I'm definitely keeping the cara cara. I will make room somewhere.... just trying to decide where.

It is still just patiently sitting in its pot, next to the shovel, while I decide.