" I don't want a woman's right of choice screwed with, I think adults should be able to marry other adults of their choice"

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Then you could not have voted less for your beliefs.

If peeps haven't been able to get along all these years, what's going to make them suddenly go all huggy and kumbaya? We are 50-50 Nation, with irreconcilable value systems, and each side is trying to win at all costs. Compromise is becoming nearly impossible.

IMO the best we can hope for is an uneasy truce that doesn't devolve into a civil war, as we lurch along flip flopping from right to left and back again. This is pretty much the way things were in much of the 19th century, before and during the Civil War, and through Reconstruction. We survived that, and we'll likely survive this. But it won't be comfy, warm, and fuzzy.

It depends on what end you are speaking from Catty. If you are talking just far right on the above that would make sense. Trump is not far right though. You conveniently left out the 2nd amendment part of my paragraph and that is not far left. Again, you can't fit me in your hate box. We do have somethings in common and we disagree on others.

Okay, add the 2nd amendment to my quote. You still could not have voted in a way that supports your beliefs less. Your 2nd amendment rights were not in jeopardy. But women's right to choose and same sex marriage are definitely in danger. JT, I'm just discussing. Please stop making sweeping, dramatic declarations about hate and making it personal. It's really not all about you.

I don't think Catty has a hate box, but Trump campaigned on restricting access to abortions and is expected to appoint a conservative to the Supreme Court. So if a woman's right to choose and freedom to marry who one loves were at the forefront of your concerns, then Trump would not have been your choice to support.

I don't think he'll do anything with the 2nd amendment.

Hate certainly is contagious. Would you like for me to make a list of hateful comments made by trump during the campaign? Has anyone ever been so hateful during a race? Has any candidate ever called people names? Encourage violence during rallies like Trump?

Even if we ordinary citizens got behind Trump, it wouldn't help much, since he's in such conflict with his own party! Cruz, the Bushes, Romney, McCain, et.al, are not going to forget what he did. Many will bow down in public, but treachery awaits.

Sort of Game of Thrones meets Survivor. For a political junkie, it's going to be golden. And of course, Trump is God's gift to political cartoonists everywhere. :)

I guess we choose to dwell on and cling to the negative and have a glass is half empty attitude or we choose to be optimistic and move forward with a glass is half full outlook. I've always had the latter perspective. It helps me have a happier, more productive life. I respect each individual's right to choose how they approach things but I have gradually drifted away from the chronically negative folks. Cheers!

If he repeals Obamacare, then we will go back to 2008. Good ol' 2008, the glory days of the US. We are already fighting ISIS. Obama has reigned in spending. So that's why it all sounds kind of "been there, done that" to me. Increasing military spending? Like 60% of the budget isn't enough? I'd like to see a cost-benefit analysis first. Don't forget we spend about 6% of the national budget just servicing the debt we have. And then you're going to spend on infrastructure too, and build a wall, and yet #3, reduce spending? Now THAT will be the magic act, particularly if more jobs tank and gov't revenues fall even farther.

Oh, and in case you weren't aware "Soros" is code for Jews. That too is an old playbook.

Iisa, I'm all over the place with my beliefs, some right and some left. There are millions like me out there who do not feel they belong to a party. We win some of our beliefs and loose some. It's our way of life.

Yes, 2008 when we didn't have what amounts to catastrophic care plans costing thousands upon thousands each month (even if premiums are subsidized by taxpayers, the money is still being paid) Sounds good!

And OBAMA has not cut spending, the GOP house has cut spending, largely due to the sequester which Obama fought. And the cuts were tiny compared with what we need to get on track.

I'm very hopeful for a true, significant reduction in government spending through shrinking the government substantially and through entitlement reform. I am optimistic it will happen and hope the GOP can follow though.

I also love Trump's plans to freeze federal hiring and to require repeal of 2 regulations for every new on passed. Sounds great! Very hopeful he does this too!

Yep, I think this is going to be good. Happy he won!

I just think it is unrealistic after 2 years of the most hate -filled campaign ever to expect every one to just be positive and get over it in 3 days. I am sure we will get used to it. But don't tell me to cheer up -it is condescending. I have a right to be disappointed -it isn't like he is a normal president elect. This is different.

But but AuntP, we want to celebrate!

Americans have an inalienable right to criticize and complain about their politicians. Politicians, OTOH, are supposed to be paragons of virtue. It may not be fair or nice, but that's part of what we fought for in the Revolution. Conflict and competition are the very essence of our political system.

In any case, the Dems are going to mete out the same treatment that the Repubs handed out to them over the last eight years. Karma's a beotch. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.

Celebrate all you want -sigh

Thank you AuntP!

But Scone, many democrats came over to Trumps side as well as independents. How is it going to work for you down the road by "dishing it out"? Do you think you will get them back?

Just curious because I have been paying for private insurance before Obamacare and all through it, where did you get the catastrophic insurance that costs thousands and thousands each month? Is it a state thing? Mine started at 350 and now has gone up to 400. SO was quoted 800, but he is much older than me.

Yes, those good old Republican budget hawks. I am going to love to see all the ways they cut the budget and increase military spending and build a wall and build infrastructure and create this wonderful health plan and re-negotiate all our trade deals. I've always wanted a smaller budget, I hope they make some deep, deep cuts. As I heard Paul Ryan say on 60 Minutes, we are basically an insurance agency with an army. Get on those social programs Repubs, it's about time! I doubt it though, they will cut tiny programs like maybe the NIH, or a consumer protection agency, or the dept. of education, but they will never cut the social safety net of the middle class. Again, same old same old.

Why are you attempting to celebrate in a thread that clearly was created not to? That seems like a big waste of your time.

I pink mountain.....do you want them to cut SS and Medicare?

where did you get the catastrophic insurance that costs thousands and thousands each month?

I don't have obamacare b/c I have a grandfathered plan we bought before this debacle. Our plan is $95/month for 2 of us, with I think a $5,000 deductible and no lifetime limits. It is a wonderful plan which covers an exam for each of us once a year.

I shopped on healthcare.gov to do a comparison. The cheapest plans for us would be $525/month each ($1050 total) with a $6,285 deductible and a $12,000 family limit. That... sounds worse.

This is not just a problem for me, and it is not an isolated example. News stories are full of info about people paying $1000 per month for catastrophic coverage.

“Our deductible is so high, we practically pay for all of our medical expenses out of pocket,” said Wendy Kaplan, 50, of Evanston, Ill. “So our policy is really there for emergencies only, and basic wellness appointments.”

Her family of four pays premiums of $1,200 a month for coverage with an annual deductible of $12,700. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/15/us/politics/many-say-high-deductibles-make-their-health-law-insurance-all-but-useless.html

Take Irene Solesky of Towson, Maryland. A mortgage underwriter, Solesky and her husband earn too much to receive a subsidy. So next year, they will have to pay $1,351 a month for a CareFirst Bronze plan for themselves and their two sons. On top of that, they face a $13,100 family deductible. http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/04/news/economy/obamacare-affordable/index.html

Republicans have proposals to reform SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. I hope we do get true entitlement reform... although of course there are no guarantees. At least, hopefully, we can show some degree of fiscal responsibility by not creating any more brand new entitlements!

I love the behind-the-scenes look at the campaigns and now the struggle between competing factions to set up the new administration. The Washington transition team has been working for months trying to build an administration, but guess who isn't engaged in the process?

"A handful of sources in and around the Trump transition team said there was no evidence that the president-elect had even reviewed any of the binders of policy and personnel proposals produced by the team."

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/donald-trump-team-rivals-231277

Pence is going to be the brains behind this presidency, so you better like his policies. Don Jr. said he was going to handle all domestic and foreign policy. When asked what Trump would do, he said "Make America great again." If he's not involved in policy, how does he make America great? I think he meant he'd make Donald feel great.

Pence was picked by the Libertarian Koch brothers. They are actually our second political party, having more money, staff, and clout than the RNC itself. I think Trump's rabid supporters are going to be in for a rude awakening. He may just end up being a do-nothing president while others run everything, and who that will be no one knows at this point. It depends on who wins the power struggle as outlined in the Politico article.

They are actually our second political party, having more money, staff, and clout than the RNC itself.

Wish they actually WERE the second political party so they could run effective non-idiotic libertarians (looking at you Mr. What's Aleppo) who don't get caught up in the social issues garbage which is so damaging to the republican party.

Who is more Mr. Social Issues than Mike Pence?

So you would like to see the second party be the KNC (Koch National Convention)? It's all their money, not grass roots'.

I just saw this posted on someone's FB page. It's a link to the transitioning government. I looked for about 3 minutes and realized there is a wealth of info and links on this- and I think it is a constructive thing to be sharing it. great again - apply for appointments

I spent over an hour yesterday, reading everything on the site.

Pence would not be my top choice, but he is better than HRC by a mile because I agree w/ him on at least some things and he is not a corrupt political hack... I agree w/ her on nothing and she epitomizes the type of politics I despise.

Yes, I would prefer KNC to what we have now, since I share their view of government to a large extent.

Both political parties are controlled by millionaires and billionaires anyway, at least that would be more honest.

Ironically, I think the president with the most grass roots funding was probably Trump. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/politics/trump-fundraising.html

But Scone, many democrats came over to Trumps side as well as independents. How is it going to work for you down the road by "dishing it out"? Do you think you will get them back?

I'm not a Democrat. I'm much closer to being a left libertarian anarchist.

Yes, don't assume someone who doesn't support Trump is a Democrat and voted for Hillary. There were other options.

^ Oh, I held my nose and voted for Hillary. Bernie had no shot, IMO-- Americans won't elect a socialist, and he's very bourgeois at heart. So it was a stinky choice between an a-hole grifting con artist and a corrupt money grubber in bed with Wall Street.

If I had my druthers, we'd have a non-statist direct democracy, free of authoritarianism in government, industry, and culture. But I'm not naive enough to think that's likely to happen, at least not in my lifetime, so I try to do the best I can with the system I'm in. New England is about as close to direct democracy as you can get in America, so I'm happy here. :)

We don't have insurance through the ACA (Obamacare) either, but neither do we only pay $95 per month. In fact, I have never seen that kind of cost since I started working back in the 1970s. Neither has my husband who is a vet and who worked for the federal government for 40 years.

Well that is what we pay for a United Healthcare policy purchased on the individual market before ACA.

"Soros is code for Jew"

No, Soros is code for equal but opposite to the Koch Bros, spending his millions to promote his liberal point of view (and apparently is in perfectly fine when he does it, but evil when the Kochs do it.)

He even put money into the race for our county prosecuter. The so-far-Teflon-coated county Democratic machine must have been worried about some of the pay-to-play scandals of the past 2 years rearing their ugly heads again.

"The volume of Koch Industries' toxic output is staggering. According to the University of Massachusetts Amherst's Political Economy Research Institute, only three companies rank among the top 30 polluters of America's air, water and climate: ExxonMobil, American Electric Power and Koch Industries. Thanks in part to its 2005 purchase of paper-mill giant Georgia-Pacific, Koch Industries dumps more pollutants into the nation's waterways than General Electric and International Paper combined. The company ranks 13th in the nation for toxic air pollution. Koch's climate pollution, meanwhile, outpaces oil giants including Valero, Chevron and Shell. Across its businesses, Koch generates 24 million metric tons of greenhouse gases a year."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-20140924

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/global-warming/climate-deniers/koch-industries/koch-industries-pollution/

That will be the day when the insurance companies send us a premium invoice for $50 a month per person in a free market. How would that ever be possible Beagles? That's not much different than the cost of auto insurance which, for most people, rarely gets used. How are they going to pay their enormous bills?

I'm not saying those will be everyone's premiums. That is just what we pay.

I believe a free market system with insurance sold across state lines will make premiums significantly cheaper than under Obamacare which pretty much everyone agrees is a failure. Government intervention certainly has not worked so time to try something else.

The individual market was killing me pre-ACA on what had risen to $1000+/month on a grandfathered plan they wouldn't let me out of for a high deductible one. That one was not near $50/month as I recall but it was affordable. They were paying out on me minimally.

I don't see how medical care can be paid for at low rates but would welcome them if they were to apply to all of us. If not, then I will be without both health insurance and medical care if I need it, like many others.

I've seen people's health, young and old, take a dramatic turn in the blink of an eye. It can happen to anyone. What's supposed to happen to them if their lives are being sold on the market for-profit.

I don't see how it can work with today's technology costs so hope for a universal system, where the doctors get paid well too as they should be (Canada; not like Medicare where they are reimbursed very little). There are too many hands in the pie.

Well, agree to disagree as I do not want a government system of any sort, single payor or otherwise. Fortunately, that should be off the table now for the foreseeable future!

We'll see what happens now :)

You either have a government system or a corporate one. One of these has a public service mission it is supposed to be following. And the other doesn't have this at all.

Medicare is a "government system".

Beagles, you do realize that pre-Obamacare, buying an individual plan was also extremely expensive -- if you could even get someone to insure you (and people with chronic health conditions often could not find ANY policy that would take them). And that healthcare costs go up every year for those of us not lucky enough to be grandfathered into a $95/month plan??? My husband has a very good plan through his employer. The plan has been the same for years. But every year the deductibles and premiums go up. We are now at the point where as a family, we have to play close to $4000 before our insurance pays one penny. And my husband pays well over $800/month out of his paycheck for this plan (not to mention what the employer is paying.) His costs increased EVERY YEAR before Obamacare, they increased during Obamacare, and they will continue to increase if and when Trump repeals Obamacare. The only thing that's going to stop rising healthcare costs is when health insurance companies stop being for-profit entities who care more about their shareholders and investors than they do about the people they are insuring.

I think Medicare should be privatized too. I'm not in support of any government-operated healthcare systems.

Yes, I realize that buying individual plans was expensive. The government has messed up the insurance market in this country for a very long time. A true free market plan with tax credits, health savings accounts so people pay for routine care on their own, the ability to sell insurance across state lines, and pricing transparency is the best approach to bring down costs, with providing appropriate assistance for low income individuals. I like much of Ben Carson's proposed plan. https://www.bencarson.com/issues/health-care/

Before Obamacare, there were also options for people with pre-existing conditions, including high-risk pools in 35 states and eight other states being guaranteed issue. It was not quite the dark ages people make it out to be. http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/02/before-obamacare-what-about-those-pre-existing-conditions/ 

Further, those with pre-existing conditions may be able to get insurance under Obamacare but that doesn't mean they're getting healthcare. http://thefederalist.com/2016/11/02/4-reasons-obamacare-also-lemon-people-pre-existing-conditions/ 

Fortunately, it looks like we are not going to find out how the government can mess things up even worse than they already have. Any attempts at single payor have been quickly thwarted here, e.g. ColoradoCare, Vermont's plan towards single payor... the progressives didn't even try the public option when they pushed Obamacare through against the public's will.

People don't want it, so we should focus on fixing the system with free market reforms.

Insurance companies are not for profit in my state (MN) and that hasn't fixed the problem. Individual coverage with a high deductible and out of pocket is still expensive - a couple friends quoted $1000-$1500 per person per month. I agree with the idea that an actual free market system with transparency and consumer choice of plans that are not restricted by the government would go a long way.

I have preexisting conditions so of course I like that part of Obamacare. I'm covered through my employer so not a problem now but it could be in an instant if I lost my job. Years ago when I didn't have employer coverage I was able to get on a plan sponsored by the state for people who were denied coverage elsewhere. It was affordable but everything was reasonable back then. It may have been subsidized with state funds - not sure.

Healthcare costs have gone up for many reasons including government mandates like electronic medical records and HIPAA security requirements along with government fines for privacy breaches due to inadequate security measures.

Yes, Obamacare has really screwed up things, especially if we try to get back to buying your own individual plan. But, it will be better than Obamacare, especially those of us (me, not anymore, I HAD to get a job recently where my family had insurance benefits) that did not qualify for a subsidy-paying these astronomical premiums for astronomical deductible "so-called" insurance-AND paying for ALL OF THOSE who DID QUALIFY for a subsidy. I am all for helping out people, but this is just totally unfair! Many of us, just saw no way out of this box we were put in.

I am SO glad Trump won! It seems that most people nation-wide are in a good mood-now that there is hope-whereas before, we felt like we were just stagnant, or even worse financially.

I know there will be an adjustment period for certain areas, but, I am so hopeful and grateful that I see Trump already getting things going, as much as he can right now-which is the one big reason why those of us who wanted a change!

Olliesmom, we buy our own and do not qualify for the subsidies, so I share your resentment.

One "plus" though of Obamacare was the free annual physical exam. These services are not all that expensive otherwise, but our culture promotes and practically rewards poor individual health decisions otherwise. I saw this as a perk (one of few, admittedly).

Many people will only go to the doctor when something is wrong. And the problems those people have at that point will be absorbed into MY healthcare costs.

Obesity is growing and the associated costs with it, poor access to healthy food choices, etc. As a society, we all pay for that, even when we believe we are not. I'd rather money go to preventative care and incentive programs that promote responsible choices in one's lifestyle.

Lisa, I agree with you about preventative care and incentive programs. But, the way it is now, and I know you agree, if you went to the Dr. for an annual exam, and they wanted to do more testing, xrays, labs, mri's etc., you would be paying for all that up to the $6800 deductible (for my area). Double that almost, $12,000 if your spouse or family needed more tests done. So, therefore, most people couldn't even afford to do the extra things the Dr. needed to help you. That was last I looked, like I said, I am on a good employee plan now, and feel so guilty for that-and grateful at the same time.

eta: But, hopefully we will have a good plan coming soon!

I don't see how any of it can be fixed if the cost of healthcare stays astronomical. The three areas that can't be treated separately are cost of services, personal responsibility in ones own health and how costs are paid for. Working on just one at a time is almost futile, IMO as someone in healthcare. To me, it's one of those areas where capitalism has no place.

I think we all wind up paying for the uninsured. It will just be in a different (less obvious) way. Prices were going up long before Obama Care.

I do think the preventive coverage isn't a big help unless you have nothing wrong in which case you didn't need to go to the doctor anyway. You essentially have no coverage to investigate possible problems due to the high deductibles. I agree preventive care is important but the current predicament doesn't really encourage it for those who really need it.

if we really had transparency and competition in healthcare prices would come down as they do with other things we buy. Instead we have this relatively closed ecosystem "managed" by the government (Medicare) and insurance companies that prevents competition and consumer choice - not just in what insurance you choose but in all aspects of healthcare. It's pretty hard to find any good info to tell you where to go to get the highest quality care at the best price - something I'm sure a lot of people would like to do right now since they're paying so much out of pocket.

"I believe a free market system with insurance sold across state lines will make premiums significantly cheaper than under Obamacare which pretty much everyone agrees is a failure"

Beagles, you repeat this truism so frequently--are you aware that it is not currently illegal to sell insurance across state lines? The theory is that states with fewer regulations would be great 'host' markets for companies who could then sell to people at lower prices. The reality is vastly less optimistic. The issue with doing so to lower prices has less to do with government prohibitions, rather that companies generally find difficulties in establishing networks, signing up doctors and attracting customers. Let's put this canard to rest as a justification or solution for medical insurance cost problems