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Vegetable Gardening

Pine trees are gone. Now what? Help landscaping the area!

7 years ago

I had 7 pine trees cut down from the corner of my property. See below picture. They were right next to the white fence (property line). There's about 10 ft between the white fence and the large maple tree. Though it doesn't look that way.

I was initially thinking I'd plant fruit trees (pear, cherry, plum) in the area. But I noticed I don't get as many hours of sun as I thought I'd get by cutting down the trees. This is south facing and I get about 4 hours of morning sun these days. Hours of sun would not increase in the summer right? Will fruit trees do ok here? Any other ideas for the space? I think I can get a see saw in here too. Kids would love that. Since it's right next to the play set.

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Comments (8)

Susu
Original Author
7 years ago
digdirt2
7 years ago
The Fruit and Orchards forum could better advise on fruit tree needs than this one can. But in my experience 4 hours of sun would not be enough for most fruit trees to be successful.

You might also post over on the Landscaping forum for other ideas and suggestions.

Dave
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Immediate full coverage is going to be difficult to achieve......sorry. The landscaper was correct - few conifers will establish in heavy shade and with that much root competition, especially ones with any size on them to begin with. Aucuba japonica, Japanese laurel, is a very shade tolerant broadleaf evergreen shrub. It will grow in almost total shade and is relatively drought tolerant. But it is probable that the largest you could find to plant will only be about 3-4' to begin with and you will have to be patient while they grow. Getting them enough water to begin with will help establishment and encourage more rapid growth. But it will be a few years until they reach a height to provide much screening. They can get 10-12' eventually. Another option is bamboo. Don't freak out! I am referring to a cold hardy clumping bamboo, like one of the Fargesia species. Clumping bamboos are very well behaved - they do not spread aggressively like a running bamboo, but remain in a controlled clump like a very large ornamental grass. Fargesia is very shade tolerant and will take temps down to 0F. Again, you will need to provide adequate water while it is establishing, perhaps for the first couple of growing seasons. The advantage of a bamboo is that it will already have some serious height to it - you will likely find plants available that are already 6-8' tall - and it puts on height rapidly. Once established, new canes emerging will grow rapidly to the full mature height. Depending on the species, Fargesia will grow 8-20' tall.
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There is no harm in trying. Worst case scenario is it does not work and you are out a couple years worth of growing. I myself am in zone 4b. I have heavy clay. I have standing water in fall/winter. Some spots are shaded a bit or close to a willow tree that my wife won't let me cut down (their roots are water hogs). Many people told me to not even bother planing anything. All that aside I have planted apples, pears, plums, ect and so far they seem to be doing fine. In your area I would try planing some apple trees on medium/large rootstock (for vigor) and use branch bending and summer pruning to maintain the size you want. In the shaded area plant earlier bearing apple varieties (No Goldrush or Enterprise for you) that will have a better chance of ripening even without full sun. Give it a shot, you never know!
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Despite how pretty the flowering plants/shrubs look in a mock up, there is no guarantee they will thrive - or even survive - under these conditions!! That's one of the major drawbacks of this sort of cursory design input. Unless one can examine firsthand the degree of rootiness and soil moisture (or rather, lack of it), suggestions for large growing and water hungry shrubs and perennials are a bit of a joke. The sweetgums (Liquidambar) in particular are well known for the production of a lot of surface roots that makes planting anything of any size under their canopy extremely problematic. And both they and the pines are water hogs and will pull all available moisture out of the soil. This is a design issue I encounter on a daily basis. I live in an area with a lot of larger trees and with many lots that have these pockets of woodlands and know from more than 25 years of experience that groundcovers suited for dry shade conditions are the best choice. They are small enough so that one is able to dig a sufficiently sized planting hole though the tree roots and once established, are able to survive with that heavy root competition. Save the larger flowering shrubs - camellias, azaleas, hydrangeas, etc. - for the areas well away from the trees where they can receive the root-free, adequately fertile soil conditions and soil moisture they need to thrive.
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tsugajunkie z5 SE WI ♱
7 years ago
Not only would they get more sun in summer, but the sun angle would be different. You'd have to check that next year.

tj
daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
If there is nothing else in the way, hours of sun would increase in the summer. But it looks like there is a lot of stuff that might be in the way. Depending on your layout, you might get more sun in the winter.

That's a lot of leaves on the ground. Are they all from that big tree in the middle that is probably shading everything underneath?
defrost49
7 years ago
I have a vegetable bed quite a few feet beyond the drip line for a maple that's about 40 years old. Fine roots still creep into that bed and make a tangle. I think you will have more sun in summer when days are longer and sun is at a different angle but I think there is going to be serious competition with the maple tree roots.
daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
In fact, many maple trees have shallow root systems that are considered to be highly invasive. Their root systems are particularly aggressive, and go straight for moisture and nutrients (as in, your garden bed if you have one). They usually out-compete anything else there, including other trees. You might consider some kind of root barrier, but that probably won't be a perfect solution. I'd do some research on maple roots. Maples are wonderful, but not with much else.
Susu
Original Author
7 years ago
I was worried about the sun light that I didn't even think about maple roots creating a problem. I have three large maples 50+ years old in my back yard. One is seen here. Two more to the left of the picture about 50 to 75 ft away from the area I'm looking to plant. The one seen in the picture would be about 10 ft away from the fruit trees. I have a peach tree about the same distance from the other maple. But peach tree seems to be fine.
daninthedirt (USDA 9a, HZ9, CentTX, Sunset z30, Cfa)
7 years ago
Well I guess your pine trees did OK, but ...

Also, maple roots, because they tend to be shallow, often extend farther than the canopy. You might dig a hole where you would put the tree, and just see what it looks like down there.

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