Do you have a simple 2d drawing with dimensions that you can post?

I don't :(. I am not at the point yet I am worrying about dimensions but overall look first. I don't even have the same exact view for each option, this was the closest comparison I could get of each option.

I like the range with a separate wall oven, but why not place the mw drawer under the oven like this?

That's also a good idea! Hadn't considered a drawer anywhere other than the island- lol!

The first thing that jumps out at me is that island is a huge obstacle to the sink. Did your designer talk with you about this?

From the nkba guidelines, "No work triangle leg should intersect an island/ peninsula or other obstacle by more than 12″ (305 mm)."

I am assuming that the sink is on the counter run by the window.

With the island, it looks like you have enough counter space, and plentiful cabinet space also. So if you love the hutch down to the counter I see no problem with that (but we have folks here who have better planning brains than I and may see it differently). I think that I would find those small drawers useful -- I would be inclined to use that area for my coffeepot/tea.

I don't like a MW so high on the wall -- seems hazardous to me -- and would favor having it in the island. Where are you planning to store your pots/pans near the stove? Will the drawers to the right of it be roomy enough? Another advantage to the cooktop is that there can be a storage drawer beneath it for the pots/pans.

Do you have plans for use that call for lower cabinets in your hutch? I am wondering why doors instead of drawers there. (Yes, I am completely sold on lower drawers!)

WE currently have the exact layout (except range) and I love it - everything is so easy to get to. Plus, we are on post tension slab so moving things like water, gas, etc are cost prohibitive.

Could you put the MW drawer on the same side of the island as the refrigerator? Seems that would make more sense in terms of actual use.

I'd do a range plus wall oven, not double ovens. At least one oven would have safe landing space.

As far as pots and pans - if I do the double ovens the pans will obviously go underneath then range top. If I do the range - the saucepans / lids / and frying pans would go in the two drawers next to the range. The large stock pots would be either in the half lazy susan in the blind corner by the range or underneath the oven - depending on height of the drawers.

For the lower cabinets by the hutch - the reason they aren't all drawers is I have a large kitchenmaid mixer that I wanted room for, since I don't like keeping it on the countertops. With one cabinet to stow the mixer - in order to try to have balance there is a second door. I am assuming I will put some pull out shelf in that cabinet - and maybe just keep my kids school stuff / homework necessities in there. The other long drawers are to hold all my platters and entertaining items. Not sure if it is the best way to store them or not - but would like to keep them all together so i am not running all around the house on holidays trying to remember where I stuffed the platters.

The microwave in every plan I have is a problem. I would be tempted to say just get rid of the microwave, but I am afraid I use it quiet a bit to cook vegetables and reheat items. So - it's sort of a situation where I have to figure out the best of the worst situations..... Do you think it would be better to do a micro drawer in the hutch cabinet area and then redesign those lower cabinets? I would lose symmetry - but I think I could deal with that.

I'm thinking about how I use my MW in relation to the rest of the kitchen. This morning I defrosted a box of veggie soup and then plopped it into a pot to finish heating up with some sliced sausage. Had my MW been in the backside of your island (backside relative to the fridge, your #2), there would have been a whole lot more steps for this procedure. Keeping it close to the fridge is just more efficient.

As far as use of the side of your island closest to the sink/dishwasher: consider having drawers there for your dishes and silverware. I can't tell you how much I like emptying the DW directly into drawers that are open 12" away.

Thank you suzanne_sl - I guess I hadn't thought to much about how I prepare the things for the microwave. I was just thinking about the end product location -- take the broccoli out and throw it on the countertop or table. But, I will really think about what I do to get the broccoli into the microwave to begin with!

Dear Busymom03,

You’re very focused on Aesthetics and that’s important. But Great Kitchen
Design includes both the aesthetic component, and the functional component.

Your kitchen’s purpose is to provide food and beverage service for your
home. Whether you cook or not doesn’t mean your kitchen shouldn’t. Your kitchen
layout should produce a kitchen that is beautiful, beautifully efficient, and for the long haul. Unless you’re
planning on re doing this kitchen in 8 to 12 years when your appliances start
to fail?

Aesthetically the large massing (pantry, Ovens, Ref/F) has become very
popular among designers and the Kitchen Remodeling Industry is all about what’s
trendy. Granted “It Looks Cool” but it’s performance aesthetically and
functional are not the best option for you. When this Look Fades your kitchen’s
aesthetic value will plummet to zero, because your kitchen will become dated
(so 2010-2020) just like the 60’s, 70’s, 80s’, 90’s, etc. did and this trend will continue (unfortunitly for consumers).

Be careful, use clasical elemets that are not treny and won't fall out of fashion, or you’ll end up where you started, with a kitchen that’s
dated and dysfunctional and you'll want to replace.

Functionally, I don’t know if you realize this but you have many functional problems
built into this kitchen layout. Both your ovens and your refrigerator are in
gathering space. That’s two of your four major appliances.

The Ref/F you will be in and out of constantly. If there is seating on
the island and it’s occupied getting into and out of your Ref/F may be more
work than you’d like it to be.

When you entertain your family and guests will be standing in front of
your ovens and ref/f and you won’t easily be able to get into them. Which will
make entertaining your own personal kitchen nightmare.

There is no counter top to the left or right of the ovens with island
seats occupied you won’t be able to turn and use the island top, and the cabinet adjacent to the range is about
21” wide when you’ll need 27” to 30” to stage what’s going into and coming out
of your ovens. Also that counter may be occupied when using your range top.

There is no counter to the left of your Ref door, and to use the counter
to the right you’ll have to contend with Island seating while you have to back
up after you take the items you need (just what you can carry) back up and kick
the Ref door shut to get to that counter. Doing something simple like making a
sandwich without counter top will be a lot more work and take more time.

To use the island or counter to the right of the range top you’ll have
the same problems as you have with your oven(s). I don’t think your intention
is to live like this making your day to day life much more difficult than it
has to be.

Your range top (range) area seems to be fine. I don’t think you have
large enough wall cabinets to hold all your dishes and glasses on your clean up wall. Unless you have
dishes stored in drawers somewhere hopefully close to your sink.

Overall design…not a fan of wall papering a kitchen with cabinetry (even
though it’s in my best interest if I’m selling cabinetry). When the Wow New
wears off it’s boring to look and see cabinetry everywhere. Closet pantries break
up the monotony of cabinetry everywhere, give you an opportunity to bring in
color, are less expensive to build. And you can store items floor to ceiling
making them much more flexible than pantries built in cabinetry.

How Does You Kitchen Work?

“A Place For Everything & Everything In Its Place”

Everyone should do this exercise to make certain their kitchen works.

Make a Kitchen Item Inventory Checklist (or download
ours) fill it in. Now with your interior elevations and layout handy, locate
everything you own. By writing them on your plan and interior elevations,
Following These Rules…

There are 5 Basic Tasks every residential kitchen performs. Storage, Preparation,
Cooking/Baking, Providing Service, & Clean Up.

The Appliance Dictates the Task and its Location, The Task Dictates the
Kitchen Items Required to perform the Task, The Kitchen Items Dictate the
Cabinetry Configuration and Accessories best suited to Store & Retrieve
those Items Efficiently.

You’ll want to store the kitchen items you’ll use most as close to the
appliance you’ use them at as possible. To increase efficiency, and if you do a
good job your kitchen will work intuitively.

As A Bonus: No More Slave To Your Kitchen because you’re the only one
that knows where everything is, because you adapted to the kitchen you
inherited when you moved in. Do this excercise and you will not have to adapt to another kitchen, or realize your mistakes after your kitchen is done.

SIMPLE.

Here is a form for you to use (it’s what we use) to tell how well your
kitchen performs and if you have all of your bases covered. http://www.luxurykitcheninteriordesign.com/kitchen-design-monthly-17/

Also, another tool our Kitchen Design Functionality Test will help you with determining
how efficiently your arrangement of appliances, cabinetry, and kitchen items
works.

And if not working well, in taking the test, you’ll discover how to
improve its performance.

http://www.luxurykitcheninteriordesign.com/kitchen-design-functionality-test-5/

Demand Better Performance

Joe Brandao

Kitchen Performance Consultant

I think the LO with the hutch area makes that wall even heavier. and the island looks like it is a barrier island.

I agree with the poster who brought up how inconvenient it will be to be getting into the fridge/frzr/ovens/pantry when anyone else is in the kitchen.

it looks like there might be a doorway to the right of the stove too. If that's a traffic flow area, it will even be worse/more congested.

I think it's short-sighted to just focus on appliances right now. A functional design is more important and will help drive the appliances. You can say you want double ovens or even a MW drawer, but until you get a good design, you won't know if they will "fit".

Personally, I prefer a wall oven, but it could be a range + single wall oven or a cooktop + two wall ovens. I also prefer a MW drawer to a countertop MW or one hanging from upper cabinets - I think a MW drawer is easier to use than one hanging from uppers and doesn't take up valuable counterspace like a countertop MW does. If you go the single wall oven route, you might consider a MW alcove over the oven - that idea might work.

If you really want to know what will work best in your space, I suggest you post a fully measured layout of either your proposed layouts or a blank slate of the space and work with people here.

If you decide you would like more help, I recommend you check the following resources:

Layout Help - FAQ for asking for layout help. It has a sample measured layout as well as a description of the other information we need

Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines threads - These threads explain best practices/good design guidelines for items such as work zones, aisles, island/peninsula seating, etc. These threads will help you understand questions/comments you will receive.

Read Me thread - Other, helpful information for using and navigating the Kitchens Forum.

.

Layout Help:

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include

.

Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines threads:

Kitchen work zones, what are they?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

.

New to Kitchens? Read Me First!

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638784/new-to-kitchens-read-me-first

My thoughts, while I do so love the cabinets down to the counter in the hutch, it seems to me you need that counter space there. I also wonder about having a toe kick over there in that hutch area -- and that depends in my mind as to your intention for that area and how much you will use it. If it was my kitchen, I think that area would be used a lot. Seems to me that might be a great baking area with the mixer. You said it's just to collect stuff from everyday, but it looks like to me you are a little short on counter space without it over there.

I'm under the impression you don't have island seating, right?

Curious about where your trash can is. Curious about that because I'm wondering if that's in the island. And if so, wondering if it could be moved to have room for the micro drawer and wider drawers next to it - those drawers look narrow to me but maybe that;s just the perspective? Your micro looks high to me and for that reason I would go with the drawer in the island. I think the island needs a toe kick but keep the columns on the edges going to floor. OR, have the end panels go to the floor but have a toe kick on the length side - that's what I'm planning in my upcoming remodel in current house.

I don't understand the criticism on the pantry. I didn't know that was a "look" and could be dated. I did my last kitchen (vacation home) like that 9 years ago because it was what worked well and I never regretted it. I love it still today. But mine is shallower than the fridge micro area because mine is also behind the back of the door. I think it keeps it from being too bulky - what would you think about that? That was kind of off topic, I know, just surprised to hear a pantry wall look was considered, what, passe?

This is my pantry wall:

Thank you everyone. I decided to go with the range and single oven. Design is almost finalized - I am so excited! Thank you for the input!!!!!!

BTW - as nice as walk in / closet pantries are - they are just not possible in my space. Although my kitchen may not fit the textbook "perfect" kitchen, I have worked with this layout for almost 15 years, and find it to be extremely functional. I know that many will say that just because I am used to it doesn't mean it is the right layout. I get that - but I also know that to get the "functional" layout by the design book I would run into issues with our slab and floor - so not possible for us. Someone mentioned that i am too focused on looks -which I agree with :) But, I also know that I have successfully cooked with this layout for years, so for me the looks will be the biggest change for me. I am really excited for the changes to come - now onto figuring out what sink to order!

I have 2 cabs that go to the countertop and like both the look and extra cabinet space.

I do not keep a bunch of stuff on the CT, prefer to keep things in cabs or drawers, so loss of CT space is not an issue for me.

I fully get what you're saying, busymom! Sometimes, we just have to adapt to the realities of a kitchen and its layout. My sink and refrigerator are at opposite ends of the kitchen, with an island cart in between. The refrigerator used to be on a side wall - much better "triangle", but it stuck too far out into the entryway to the kitchen and made it very cramped looking. It works perfectly where it is! I wash produce when I bring it home from the store (bags are unloaded from the island cart). It's then put on the island cart and then put away in the refrigerator. When I take things out of the refrigerator, they go either to the right or left countertop, depending on what I am preparing. Unless I had knocked out the back wall, it could go no where else! And that was NOT an option for more reasons than I have time to write!

Yes, we DO adapt and that is NOT a bad thing! In fact, it is what my generation did. Of all my friends, I only know three who ever gutted their kitchen and re-did it - the rest made the best of what came with their house. And no, they did not moan over the inconvenience every time they prepared a meal!