How tall is tall? My grafted Dark Desire is shooting to about 4/5' tall in its first year, but I didn't know I should be shaping it. I'm hoping Summer Romance doesn't follow suit, although it seems to be going wider which is fine with me.

Thanks, vaporvac. When i say tall, I mean over 7 feet. I knew Liebeszauber had that tendency, I do want most of my hybrid tea bushes to be a more average height though, which for most of them is between 4 to 5 feet.

If you want more compact try Winter Sun, Fiji, Grande Amore. Savannah is probably a little taller than these. South Africa stays at a bout 4' for us.

Vigor and lots of bloom means a fast growing rose and there is where height comes into the picture . In areas where there is a long growing season the bush has a lot of time to grow and will increase in height.

I keep Beverly at 4 feet without much problem. My late winter prune is at 2 feet tall on an own root bush. I still have 50 blooms over the season just not the tall plant. If you start with a bush pruned to 3'-3.5' it is going to put out the growth and be tall.

I think I have said this before, but Dark Desire is a big rose. My 5 year-old own root bushes are about 5' at the end of the season and they are easily 4' feet wide. And looking out at the garden they are still blooming in the rain and cold and all the foliage still looks great. DD just does not believe it is late fall. Summer Romance is not at all that big reaching 3.5' -4' tall and maybe 3' wide.

Pink enchantment seems medium height for me like 4 ft.

Sara Ann, my HTs, Beverly and Pink Enchantment, have reached 4' at this season's end. This is their first year in my garden. They are extremely vigorous. On the other hand, Dark Desire, also in its first year, has not exceeded 1' high. I do have a hope DD will catch up, but time will tell.

Savannah is finishing its second year in my garden and also has reached 4' this year, and about 2' last year. It has not been as robust as Beverly or Pink Enchantment, but it is still a very nice rose having lovely, shiny, burgundy cast foliage and lovely blooms.

The floribunda, Earth Angel, has reached 5', which is quite remarkable since this is its first year in my garden. Thought I'd let you know just in case you are interested.

They were all shipped in from Chamblee's in gallon pots. I patronize Chamblee's a lot.

Beverly and Savannah will get winter protection this year, as Savannah did last winter, without which they would surely die to the ground or worse. All the others will wing it this winter with no protection since their ADR designation indicates they will survive my winter well, but I'll find out next spring, won't I?

Moses - The ADR trials do not insure cold hardiness, not at least in what we have in cold climate challenges in USA. The ADR trial sites in Germany are about equivalent to your USDA Zone 5+ to USDA Zone 6+ . The ADR trials do indicate disease resistance and they also judge form, flowering and other qualities of the rose bush. The scores are 2 part with one score for disease resistance and one score for beauty- if you will. All roses that are given an ADR have to make a minimum score for disease resistance and also make the minimum score for disease resistance to earn the designation. In the USA we do send the Kordes roses out to very cold sites for trialing. Quite a few of the HT roses were trialed in Montreal some years back. Beverly did quite well as did really all the HTs we had introduced at the time. We do think Savannah is hardy in a USDA Zone 6 and probably performs above average in USDA Zone 5 so I am not sure about your comment these need more protection than the others.

If Earth Angel reached 5' then it needs some pinching done to make sure it is a well shaped own root plant. A mature bush for us is about 3.5-4 feet tall and about 3 feet wide with a lot of flowering canes.

I love Pink Enchantment but it is not more petite for us in our trial garden. it grows to the same height as Beverly.

Thanks so much everyone. Some interesting info.

Chris2486, 'Savannah' does NOT "perform above average" in my USDA zone 5 garden. In, fact, it barely performs at all, in a full sun location, and it is very susceptible to whatever strain of BS lives in my yard. My guess would be that 'Savannah' needs a warmer climate and maybe a lighter soil. .

Savannah has grown lustily her first season here in coastal zone 8 SE Virginia but is proving very susceptible to BS. She's still a keeper; the blooms have a beautiful form and are very fragrant.

OTOH Pink Enchantment (Souv. de Baden Baden) is clean, not a single spot. Takes a while for her to produce her breathtaking blooms but they are worth waiting for! Good to know she'll be tall, may need to move her up to my biggest pot.

You might like Lavaglut (Lava Glow), a Kordes floribunda which produces wonderful sprays of very refined dark red blooms. Lavaglut in full flush is something to behold and my mature plant is about 3-1/2 ft.

Tall hybrid teas are a challenge, so I decided to wait to order Beverly and other biggies until I can get a new bed ready. I'll grow taller HT's and shrubs together in this new bed.

I used to visit Kordes HT Folklore at the Columbus Park of Roses; so tall that you could clearly spot it soaring above the other roses, even from clear across the park. Even in SE Ohio where I lived back then it was hard to reach blooms to cut for the house!

I've been eyeing Lavaglut. Do you think it would grow in an afternoon only sun spot? I have a full western exposed bed that I plan on converting to roses this Spring.

Wedding Bell. That is one that does not get too big, correct?

Chris, thank you for the heads up on winter hardiness of ADR awarded roses.

My assumption was that since my hardiness zone 5/6 is somewhat eqivalent to the average among the ADR German trial gardens in which your Kordes roses have been tested, they would be winter hardy without protection for me.

During the ADR trials are the roses given any winter protection?

I have reduced the growth of my Earth Angel repeatedly this past summer. It pushes extremely vigorous growth for me, with an above average flower output for its first year in my garden. It came from Chamblee's this past spring with stems no thicker than coat hanger wire. It just took off, amazing me! Its canes are just under 1" in diameter at 3" above crown level. The fragrance is intense. I suspect it may be prone to ball up, but since the blooms are on the small size (I'm OK with that), they may overcome this possibility.

Pink Enchantment looks like it will never get more than 3' tall in my garden, however, it was competing with Charles de Mills, who was trying to take over. Chas. has since been removed, so hoping PE will show some growth next spring. In addition to the ones already mentioned, I recommend Johann Strauss from Meilland, not Kordes, sometimes listed as a floribunda, sometimes a HT. It performs like a HT in my garden, doesn't seem to want to scale the heights, lovely blooms. Moses, my Earth Angels from Northland Rosarium have grown like yours. Can't hold them back. Thinking they would be small, I planted 2 about 18" apart. One of them will be moving to it's own place next spring.

Earth Angel is indeed vigorous. I even have two buds on it now. Hope they get a chance to open.