I think I inadvertantly played a part in a sisterly feud.

I used to make garden art out of things I found at thrift shops and yard sales. I sold them at a local market and they were a big hit, especially because i used discarded things in a new, practical way. One day a woman was examining a piece and I told her the story, that I rescued discarded pieces and gave them new life. She got a weird look on her face and in a tight voice exclaimed that the dish that I incorporated into the piece she was looking at was one she had made for her sister for a gift a couple years ago. I jokingly suggested she could buy the piece and re-gift it to her. Yeah, that joke fell a bit flat, but I imagine the other sister would get an ear full.

I guess I'll never understand why people are so attached to possessions they no longer want. If an item is given away, it no longer belongs to the giver. The recipient should be able to use it or dispose of it in any way they wish.

Exactly. If it means that much to you, then keep it.

I was curious now so I just went back in my emails and found one from her that said "Lest you think this is primarily about the couch, it is not...I'm tired of you mommying me and I hate your unsolicited advice" etc etc. Examining the timeline in my emails we'd just been on an outing that weekend and she'd just had me over to housesit so I really had no idea it was brewing.

So I think it sticks in my brain because I felt really dumb and clumsy emotionally about the whole thing. I had just totally missed any warning signs and usually consider myself at least kind of astute about people. Even reading it over again now made me embarrassed for how clueless I was. I'm not one to force a friendship so if she had distanced herself at all I like to think I'd have taken the hint.

I misunderstood your earlier comments, robo, regarding mothering. I was under the impression that it was she doing the mothering bit towards you. I'm sorry if it seemed my anti-mothering comments were directed at you. They were not intended to be.

Oh I didn't take offense! Actually I remember asking another very independent friend how things were going once, I meant it to sound empathetic But it was delivered too solicitously and I could see her back go up like visibly although she responded politely enough. So it's a tendency I really have to watch. I really love strong independent bossy women so I guess I gather antimothering friends.

My first reaction is to be a problem solver and to offer solutions to whatever situation a friend is describing. However, I've learned that many times, perhaps most of the time, a friend is just talking. They don't want opinions or solutions, just a listening ear. So, now I don't offer an opinion unless I'm specifically asked for one.

Since a lot of us had difficult relationships with our mothers that could easily have been a super-sensitive area for her. When I first got to my workplace there was a mothering type in the next office. I really resented her over time because I felt that she was hovering just to watch me screw up. Much, much later I realized that wasn't true and was just my new-employee lack of confidence at the time. We all respond from our own places at any given time, and it is no wonder we don't get it right sometimes.

Just for the opposite side, although I do see everyone's point that a gift is a gift. I gave someone an expensive, two year old, never-worn dress with tags. This person returned it to Nordstrom the very next day for the cash - I was floored and have since always thought twice about giving to this person. I also gave my children's crib to a co-worker; she sold it after her children used it. I was shocked- I thought that she should have just passed it on to a family who could use it for nothing. But, I'm thinking that my way of thinking is just wrong after reading above responses.

I don't think your thinking is "wrong", per se, maddie. I'd be hurt, and furious, if I gave someone a dress and the very next day they returned it for cash. that is a very, very tacky and classless thing to do, both to the person who'd just given her the dress and to Nordstrom. (People like that cause the price of goods to skyrocket, btw, so the rest of us pay for her returning a two=year=old dress for cash).

In those cases, I do tell myself that, "technically, it was her dress to do with what she wanted after I gave it to her." But that doesn't mean it doesn't chafe, and rationally so!

If she hated the dress then why wouldn't she take it back? And wonder why someone she knew gave her a spotted necktie? And if instead she simply wanted the cash more than the garment, well again that is up to her. With it still also being the case that she might think she was given an unsuitable gift, which could be taken to indicate the giver really didn't know her very well. Likewise on the one hand gift certificates and checks or cash carry an implication of not wanting or being able to find and present a well matched gift. But on the other hand they are a way to assure the recipient gets just what they want.

As for O.P. not anticipating what these other people are thinking, who among us is a mind reader anyway? And why is it up to them to cater to other people? (Which, of course, as mentioned earlier is part of the problem - she had been working for the one woman part of the time. But not all of the time - she doesn't own her).

Embrothrium: she said she wanted the dress to wear, not to return. That was what upset me. It was not a gift in the way that you are thinking. I could care less what anyone does with a gift I give.

She knew Nordstrom would take the dress back so that was her intention all along.

'I don't think your thinking is "wrong", per se, maddie. I'd be hurt, and furious, if I gave someone a dress and the very next day they returned it for cash. '

I'd be furious at myself in that i didn't return it first. But if I had so much money as to not care enough to return it, how arrogant would It be for me to gift it and then begrudge someone else for doing what I didn't bother to do!

Re the dress: I think the real problem is that the person lied. She said she wanted the dress to wear and then returns it for cash the next day, that is a falsehood. Not so much the ultimate disposition of the dress.

Re the crib: that one wouldn't bother me personally. She put it to its intended use and then got rid of it. Although as I learned with the couch, many would likely see it as classier to give it away. For me, if you take it off my hands, great! You could set it on fire and that's your thing.

It would never dawn on me to return any item two years after its original purchase.

That alone is sleazy and dirty and selfish, because it is something which affects everyone.

The dress thing would infuriate me. I had a situation similar but less dramatic. I had a yard sale and had a number of things that I was just giving away, including 4 beer steins. They were either heavy glass or insulated plastic, they had come along with DH when we married and I was decluttering. The next door neighbor comes over, takes the glasses and then had them for sale at her next yard sale. I didn't say anything; it just confirmed what I had already thought of her.

Tacky.

We were in the market for a new car and were going to trade in our Volvo sedan. It had been carefully maintained but it had high mileage. At the time my nieces (husband's side) had just started driving & my BIL was shopping for a car for them. He hadn't much to spend and was looking at old beater cars.

DH & I were concerned about the girls breaking down on the back roads that they drove to school and practices, so we offered BIL the Volvo for far less than we would have gotten in trade. (We had 2 kids in college at the time & were not flush with money) He appeared so grateful and the girls were thrilled.

A couple months later, the girls were driving an old junker. BIL/SIL had sold the Volvo and bought new snow machines for weekend fun with the proceeds.

Really disheartening...

Addressing it would have only caused hard feelings, but we learned our lesson.

Do we really know other people's finances? Nordstrom's has a policy of unlimited returns, it's what they are known for.

The way people save or spend money can be psychologically based. My oldest sister lives as if she is poor, only spending money when she has to. She and DH are highly paid professionals!

I had a friend who bought hand me downs from another friend. That friend used to put the clothing in consignment shops so she felt that if my friend wanted it, than she should pay the consignment price for it! A bit odd to me, but it worked for my friend.

The reason Nordstrom has a policy of unlimited returns is because they pass those losses on to their customers in the prices of their goods. So it's everyone else who pays for that person who returns a dress two years later just to get a few bucks.

amck's car story is particularly gross, IMO. I think that one would put the kibosh on that relationship for me, mostly because of the part about taking a financial hit myself out of concern for the safety of new drivers. Kudos to amck for rising above that. That would be hard for me to do.

Amck's story reminded me of a woman I saw at a Goodwill Store once. She was systematically going through the women's clothing (all sizes), cherry-picking all the best pieces. Her cart was FULL of clothing. She was taking it home to sell at a garage sale.

Sure, Goodwill made their money. But gee whiz, lady. I know it's a free country and all, but it seems she was making her money on the backs of those who can least afford it.

Edited to add: amck, I agree that their actions were reprehensible. Your motives were pure, and theirs weren't. Remember this down the road someday when those people and your DH are involved in settling parental estates. Watch out!

you did nothing wrong at all. There are people who feel in control & powerful when they are being benevolent to someone they feel is beneath them. This is not a friendship but more about control. That couch was symbolic of that control. Its akin to that feeling when in-laws gift their children with previously owned furniture and its seen as a control issue. One cannot alter it, sell it, give it away or discard it. To do such would in their eyes dishonour them. For this woman to go through such length to troll you on craigs list and write a very long winded letter expressing her anger is actually alarming in my opinion. You do yourself no favour by fretting over this. Cut ties and be quick at it. And stay far from them as possible.

Interesting opinions. I don't think I'd be outraged that my friend returned the never-worn/still-has-tags dress for the cash. I might be a little upset with myself for not knowing that Nordstrom would take it back. If it's the store's policy to accept a dress purchased two years ago, then I don't see a problem with returning it. It's not like you'd be trying to pull a fast one on Nordstrom. You're just operating within their acceptable parameters, and nobody has to shop there if they disagree with the store's policies.

A sane and sensible decision, amck. Good for you.

Well in a strange way this makes me feel better. I had a friendship (from highschool) end in the beginning of college. it ended very abruptly. they left my house and never showed up for the agreed to plans later that day. I called, I wrote a letter. to this day I still have no idea what happened! I am sure I must have done something., but I don't know what it was.

Interesting story. Robo, has this person really created an unsavory book character in your likeness? . I just scanned the posts so may be repeating myself. Don't see a thing wrong with selling gifted couch. Gifts with strings attached--her problem not yours. I do find it very strange that this person would keep up with CL in such detail and so faithfully as to catch you selling. There is no way that I could ever scan thru entire Houston CL policing anybody/anything for a day, much less 2 yrs. Could it be a common friend was the link? I truly can't fathom CL monitoring.

IAC, you don't need this person in your life. Hopefully your posting thread will be cathartic and you can file the incident in the "one of those things" file.

This is interesting, I see nothing wrong with selling the couch but then had something happen to me from a giving end and hope that I am not a hypocrite. We had a lil tykes tugboat sandbox that was no longer made and quite popular, I could have sold it for more than we bought it for by quite a bit. One of my close friends begged me to give it to her for my godchildren when we were ready to let go of it, this was mentioned often. At the time we really could have used the money from the sale, but we gave them the sandbox. They decided they did not want it and sold it within a week. I was annoyed but knew it was a gift to them and I got over it. This friendship did not end until she cheated on her husband and decided I was harsh for recommending marriage, counseling rather than celebrating her new guy, she and her husband stayed together but somehow everything was my fault. I consider my "mistake" small but she considered it a complete betrayal. So it is all how you look at it.

jill302 I'm late to this thread, but honestly, the nerve of your "friend"! She must have had a lot of insecurity within her, I suppose, to blame you for the struggles within her marriage.

Jill, the couch was sold after two years of use. Your ex friend sold this sandbox in a week. While it is true that once you give something it belongs to the person you gave it to, and they can do what they wish, in your case I think it was tacky for your ex friend to beg for it and then sell it so soon.

I think it is really a blessing that you are no longer friends, but I'm sorry you had to suffer through all that.

I will say that the incident did make me reconsider selling things that were gifted to me. I would generally have no issue with someone else doing so with a gift I gave them, typically when I give things away I'm pretty much happy to have them off my hands. I have quite an easy come easy go personality but I now realize that a lot of people don't give gifts as lightly as I do. So I would want to consider the impact on the friend who gave me the gift. Financial need plays a little bit of a part too, in the past it would have been hard for me to afford a newer used couch where now my finances are improved and I could save up for a used couch pretty easily. So that probably would impact my decision-making now as well.

They decided they did not want it and sold it within a week

she and her husband stayed together but somehow everything was my fault

They are jerks. Good riddance!

Same goes for situation in O.P. The woman described is toxic and best avoided.

Jill, I would be hard pressed to not think the "friend" had every intention of selling it all along. Bottom line the way she got it--BEGGING you to give it to her not sell it yourself ABSOLUTELY required her to give it back if she TRULY decided they didn't want it after all. It is unfortunate for you, you are God-mom to her kids...Keep praying for those children they are going to need your prayers!!

What an interesting thread of gifts, friendships and perceived slights. I can relate to a lot of comments. Learning to just listen and not provide advice, to carefully word what I say (sometimes I am surprised how people perceive what I say) and not assert myself is tricky. It really goes against my personality type. But I really do try, which is why I try not to over-read anything that people say or write and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. Robo, I too had a friendship end when I was 22, over me being the one who was allegedly "mothering." I think she just didn't want to be friends with me anymore. Regarding gifts. I am someone that keeps gifts friends give me, regardless of whether I like them or not. Good thing no one ever gave me a couch.

"Regarding gifts. I am someone that keeps gifts friends give me, regardless of whether I like them or not. Good thing no one ever gave me a couch."

If someone gave you a couch you would keep it for the rest of your life?

The OP kept an already used couch for two years, until her circumstances changed and she wanted a new one. That seems reasonable to me.

I hope you realized that "good thing no one ever gave me a couch" was meant to be tongue and cheek humor.

This reminds me of a long term friendship that I had to end. My former friend remains confused, that I ended the friendship over "one little thing". I explained to her, and others, that "that little thing" was the last straw. So much was wrong for so many years that it was just a toxic situation. Apparently she was blind to my feelings entirely.

I agree that it is rarely "one little thing" that ends a friendship, and that the end usually results from hurts and/or annoyances that build over time, and that the "one little thing" is usually the last straw. What annoys me is when someone ends a friendship over a last straw, but never said anything about the build up of issues along the way. I would really like to know if I am behaving in a way that is jeopardizing a friendship. Just like I feel like I should approach a friend if such a pattern in their behavior is building up in my mind. No one is "obligated" to have these sometimes difficult conversations, but I feel that if the person is valued in other ways, it is worth it to at least let them know of the issues rather than dropping them randomly at some later date. If they know of the problem but make no efforts to change, then that's a different story.

That is as individual as each and every person. In my case, I did point out things that bothered me and nothing changed. Really, she was not listening. The give-away there was that she never remembered things I had told her. She often insisted that I never told her of my job promotion, a new baby in the family, someone's serious illness etc. I had. I knew she was bored and un-interested at the time. I kept hoping it was a passing phase and would improve. It never did. Ending a friendship is never easy and it left me feeling sad that it could not be saved. I think she does see me as a villain and feels angry that she didn't deserve this treatment. Rumor reached me that she felt I stabbed her in the back. It's just sad.

I had a friend chew me out on email because I didn't respond to her couple emails. I think the emails were a couple weeks old.

What she wrote was a scathing personal attack, and upset me so much that I blocked her. Don't feel a need to ever reach out to someone who takes personal information and weaponizes it.

Mimipadv, I had a friend that got angry I was responding to her emails in short sentences, and this was during work hours. She ended up blowing up within a few hours and sent me a hate filled email. I couldn't respond to her email, she was so out of line.

What she failed to realize is, I was in back to back meetings and trying to discretely respond to her emails. Crazy. You are so on point about someone who takes personal information and weaponizes it.

This didnt end a friendship, ..When DH and I got married (I was 40, he 42, already had our own household stuff), we came home from work one day to find an old, dirty, lumpy sofa on our back deck. We already had 2 nice sofas, from combining households. Had a note that said 'Hope you like it' pinned to the sofa. No names. Absolutely NO idea where or why this was dumped at our house. Couldnt think of any friends or family that would do that. Called a charity, they wouldn't take it. too dirty. Borrowed a truck and hauled it to the dump.

About a month later, a snooty coworker of his (not a friend)....asked him how we liked our wedding gift. Turns out she and her boyfriend wanted to get rid of it and decided WE needed it. DH hemmed and hawed, didnt want to admit we didnt keep it. All I could think was..Of all the nerve. So, it did not end a friendship, we were never friends, OPs sofa story just reminded me of it.

It takes a helluva lot of nerve to dump a sofa on someone's property! They sound like idiots.

Sounds like the new neighbors on Modern Family.

She seemed to look down on me for some reason. Never knew, never cared. We were invited to their wedding, as was everyone in DH's office. Sadly, :) , we had a prior engagement. Ta ta!!

I'm late to the party. I have a friend to whom I gift a lot of clothing/shoes and handbags. She's always behind me in our size challenges.

She keeps things forever and I have to tell her to let stuff go. I've even gone out there and helped her clean out her closet!

I can only think of one "friendship" that ended badly...a few that drifted apart/away for no reason I could ascertain.

The one bad ending was a young woman who had dated my son. They were oil and water and eventually broke up, but remained "friends". I was never friends with her when they dated. But she had a bad break up with her next guy and was using my son as support. He asked if I would reach out to her, as he trusts my skills with people in crisis. It was a little awkward at first. She is a good person, but as shallow as can be, a status seeker, with no real ambition but to marry well. The one thing we had in common was a love of dance. She was a former dancer; I had season tix to the ballet, so I started asking her to join me. She was a very considerate friend, thoughtful gifts, etc. and could be a lot of fun. But I was always biting my tongue about values things that were just so far out of my way of thinking, that it was kind of a lot of work for me. Like filing bankruptcy on credit card debt, then spending money on a Brazilian wax! Leasing a car she couldn't afford, etc.

My son actually introduced her to a successful professional that he knew through his work. Nice enough guy, but kind of boring, but he had $$. Just what she wanted. She glommed onto him and he didn't stand a chance. Anyway, long story short, they became engaged, but she was so manipulative about every aspect of their relationship, all about the status and $$$, including the over the top wedding plans. A bridezilla, for sure. Refused to allow his niece and nephew to attend HER wedding because she didn't want kids. WHAT??? He made her sign a prenup, but she didn't care. Ugh.

So after watching her shenanigans (not worth listing here, but they were pretty awful) and thinking she is so desperate and pathetic, I just couldn't play along and keep my mouth shut. I wrote her a letter, not unkind but sort of laying out the wide disparity in how we moved through the world and telling her I couldn't do it any more. Wished her well, said goodbye.

Were they offended that you didn't want to keep that couch forever and ever?

At least it was nice enough to sell. Would they rather see it in a landfill? Silly people finding something to be worked up over. If not the couch then something else eventually. You can't tell someone what to do with a gift.

She should have been happy you were now able to afford something nicer.