I'm a relatively new rose grower that was, and is, still planning on joining the ARS. I've read all the arguments pro/con and I'm still joining because I believe that change comes from within. Who will be there to replace the "old guard" and give voice to those enjoy growing roses as garden shrubs, pieces of history, wonderful smelling flowers, and objects of beauty? Depending on who you are and what you spend your money on, $50 could be a lot of money. Personally, I've spent $50 dollars on much more fleeting/"dumb" things than a membership to an organization. Would we be having this conversation if the dues cost $10 a year? Just a few months ago, I joined my local rose society. I'm the youngest member there at 34, most members are in their 50s, 60s, and 70s. The leadership of my local rose society fall into the exhibitor camp. The highlight of the society's calendar is the annual rose show they put on. The focus of the pre-show meetings was on exhibition cultural practices (all the pruning advice was for HTs) and preparation/grooming for exhibition. However, I'd say 75% of the society's membership does not exhibit, like myself. The show came and pretty nobody from the society came except the leadership/hardcore exhibitors...the reason? Most of the members, including me, thought our roses weren't "good enough" because we had the strict judging standards drummed into to us. The competition aspect of took precedence over the fact that this was an opportunity to show off flowers to the public. I think the exhibitors were mad because they didn't have other roses for their roses to "smack down" :) The next meeting after the show, the president made a plea to the members to bring roses to the show, no matter what they looked like. She said the public just likes to see roses, they don't care if there's a petal or leaf out of place, or if there's spot. Like Jeri said "Rose Societies SHOULD BE ABOUT ROSES." I'm going to be pushing the idea for more frequent "rose celebrations" and I've been bring bouquets of roses from my garden to each meeting. I have been, and will continue to be a voice at my local society offering a different story about roses other than traditional exhibition HTs. I've planning to approach the society about giving "novice talk" about what I've learned about OGRs, and make people aware of resources such as HMF and GardenWeb, where I've learned so much valuable information. I'm planning to also check out HRF as well, and will spread the word at the local level. You'd be surprised how many people are out there that like roses, but are so bewildered/intimated at the thought of growing them. It seems like for better or worse, ARS is the organization a lot of them have first contact with. There's a lady in my society that "only" has 3 rosebushes, but you can tell she's so eager for advice and information, a lot of which she gets from ARS publications. People think that HTs are the only roses out there for a reason. Throwing one's hands up and walking away is certainly one's choice, but I want to help shape the next generation of rose growers (hoping there is one). Eric

jeffcat, I hope you get a digital camera, soon. It is so much fun to shoot photos of your roses and share them with others over GW. 2.5 ft for a one year old Red Eden that is not bad! I wish you that you get them happily over the winter, that is truly something that we here in CA don't have to worry about. Good luck! newyorkrita, thank you! The spring flush of Eden can be quite impressive and I am not talking about my "little girls". I have seen face to face an incredible specimen on an arbor in the Bay Area and on Coronado (a little half-island close by) a couple of Edens, that were growing along a relatively long low fence line. Both sights were simply breathtaking. Too bad that you don't have room for an Eden or in fact any climber. I feel that climbers can create a very special atmosphere in the garden, that you just can not achieve with the other types of roses.

I have this spectacular rose: very healthy in my no spray garden, very little die back and beautiful spring display. It’s a lovely gift you have given us @regtomerlin. Will call her Margaret Mae instead of PiP henceforth.

Flowers, Thank you for telling me more about your Eden-she is the queen if Edens to me w/ her abundant blooms! Ben, Your Eden is the King of Edens!!!!) Just can’t believe it’s tall climbibg beauty! Oh, My, WOW! Flowers, Your Eden sounds soectacular!!!! I think Eden us the best! It’s blooms, each one, have the most beautiful shape & pircelain colored light punk, and she’s so vigorous! Yous blooming all the time is nagical-I can’t wait to see if mine will bloom that much….. I think the more sun, more watering, fertile conditions would bring her out to be her best after 4 years hoping. However, Heirloom Rises said their Eden now has huge almost tree sized HUGE trunks- canes are soooooo wide. I see my Eden’s canes thickening -but don’t want big tree sized trunks!!! Lol! I think I’ll let her griw around tge side of my baywidiw to reach 12 feet or so to get max blooms! My Eden on other side of bay window is just starting to fill out, but littkexshaded….. may move vegetation aroundcto give her more sun so she can thrive.